Is there a way out of suffering?

[zeroISinfinity]

23 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

There may be, but even then they wouldn't be able to prove it because it'd only be the case for them.

It's not possible to manipulate reality for all humans because there's no one really doing the manipulation. When anything occurs, it's not a human that is doing it. It's the formless God.

Practises man. Actual ones. 

Formless =actual awakening and by actually becoming it in it's purest possible state (it's not hidden, formed is permiated with it and it is that but none of you guys really meditate at all properly) you will know what God really is. 

You can  only really know and understand through Being. Not by thinking about it. 

But some contemplation is required (which is a bit of a paradox) but only after actual lets call em mystical experiences. 

I do bet Leo contemplated shitload of stuff even if he has  done so many full breakthrough 5 meo thingies. 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Gesundheit]

@zeroISinfinity take a chill pill dude lol

[zeroISinfinity]

@Gesundheit It's ok. 

"loud slavic guy". If I ever come to US I will have problems adjusting. 

Agressive sometimes lacking patience, high  temper I really am not suitable to have anything to do with Spirituality. 

Harder survival, harder challenges. Life is not separated from God. 

That's my unique snowflake. Maybe not that beautiful on eye from outside. 

[Gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Gesundheit 

That's my unique snowflake. Maybe not that beautiful on eye from outside. 

Yeah

[Member]

Suffering is something you create, so surrendering to your own suffering is not the best advice someone could give. I can see that people are way too hopeless which obviously creates more suffering. The key is not surrendering but understanding. Ignorance brings suffering.

[Gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, Member said:

Suffering is something you create, so surrendering to your own suffering is not the best advice someone could give. I can see that people are way too hopeless which obviously creates more suffering. The key is not surrendering but understanding. Ignorance brings suffering.

I always thought ignorance is bliss.

[zeroISinfinity]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Yeah

Love you take care. 

If you want to be sceptic. Be proper sceptic or cynic whatever do it right and circle will complete. ?

[gswva]

@allislove tfw there is no difference between Leo's teachings and placebo...  I could've accepted it all along, both the process and the result would be the same. The only difference is the amount of screwing around and unconscious shuffling. Doubting Love is a perpetual process, we can't prove that love is indeed infinite as long as we are in a finite form. Right now, I'm only aware of this being a possibility, still no proof whatsoever, which might never be found as long as we are scattered. You could say this is obvious but we just can't even prove that either.

Edited August 13, 2020 by gswva

[Gesundheit]

7 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Love you take care. 

If you want to be sceptic. Be proper sceptic or cynic whatever do it right and circle will complete. ?

Makes no difference. Save it.

[Member]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I always thought ignorance is bliss.

Ah no, ignorance is the root of suffering. But being carefree or detached doesn't mean that you're ignorant.

[Gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, Member said:

Ah no, ignorance is the root of suffering. But being carefree or detached doesn't mean that you're ignorant.

Babies don't seem to suffer though, at least not as much as kids, let alone adults.

[zeroISinfinity]

Will just say this. You very deeply underestimate this enlightenment stuff. 

 

[Member]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Babies don't seem to suffer though, at least not as much as kids, let alone adults.

Understanding is not the same as intellectually knowing, though they are related. You can be the smartest person on earth and still be ignorant of your own nature and suffer as a consequence.

[allislove]

@gswva seems like you've got it  

placebo = Leo = you

To prove anything you always have to assume something for the truth without proving
Proving is useful when you want to prove if you have N apples and you eat one apple you have N-1 apples, but not for metaphysical stuff. A proof is the second order, being is the first order. In simple words, you have a sand and a castle from the sand. You can build a castle from the sand, but can you build the sand from the castle keeping the castle structure? Doesn't make sense, right?  The spiritual journey is about letting go of the desire to prove anything. It's about focusing on the investigation of direct experience, just by being, meditation ?

[inFlow]

@Someone here Using physical force to move your body one can perceive as suffering. Have you ever been so lazy that you suffered getting up?

[PopoyeSailor]

My opinion:

Happiness as a concept/reality will cease to be if there was no suffering.

E.g: Imagine you are put into a reality where there is only happiness, and you are able to live forever. A day will come when you have already explored all the possible ways of being happy and there's nothing new to explore. Instead of being so happy of being in a happy reality, you'll be bored to death. Boredom will slowly turn into frustration, frustration into anger. When anger arises you are already in deep suffering. If this continues you'll get into states of suffering unimaginable.

Again imagine, after this experience you are transferred to a reality where you are made to suffer all kinds of sufferings for a while. After a while, when you are again put back into the first reality again, those same things which you thought were boring will give you a kind of utter happiness which gains a new intensity which was not even there at the first time. This is why it is said, happiness and sadness are not two different things, they compliment each other, they give existence to each other. There is no one without the other. Happiness cannot be experienced or acknowledged without experiencing its dual opposite: suffering.

In order to extract happiness infinitely again and again even from a single particular truth/reality/object/concept, one has to either lose it from possession or suffer some suffering (sometimes related to or unrelated) to that particular truth/reality/object/concept in various angles, circumstances and different variations. Every time when re-possession of the lost object happens or the suffering period subsides, the happiness derived is slightly different and has some variety to it.

losing or separation is suffering and uniting is happiness. Unity itself without separation loses its joy or happiness feeling after a while. Separation alone without uniting causes perpetual bondage. The actual action is in-between the unity and separation, that is where the true joy, bliss, satisfaction, happiness is. Non-duality alone is mere peace. Duality alone is pure suffering. Hide and seek of losing unity and finding it again is where bliss of life is hidden.

Of course this analogy has its own flaws. But, to explain every possibility of a particular truth with single example is not possible. Hope this helps.

Edited August 13, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[peachboy]

22 minutes ago, PopoyeSailor said:

My opinion:

Happiness as a concept/reality will cease to be if there was no suffering.

E.g: Imagine you are put into a reality where there is only happiness, and you are able to live forever. A day will come when you have already explored all the possible ways of being happy and there's nothing new to explore. Instead of being so happy of being in a happy reality, you'll be bored to death. Boredom will slowly turn into frustration, frustration into anger. When anger arises you are already in deep suffering. If this continues you'll get into states of suffering unimaginable.

Again imagine, after this experience you are transferred to a reality where you are made to suffer all kinds of sufferings for a while. After a while, when you are again put back into the first reality again, those same things which you thought were boring will give you a kind of utter happiness which gains a new intensity which was not even there at the first time. This is why it is said, happiness and sadness are not two different things, they compliment each other, they give existence to each other. There is no one without the other. Happiness cannot be experienced or acknowledged without experiencing its dual opposite: suffering.

In order to extract happiness infinitely again and again even from a single particular truth/reality/object/concept, one has to suffer some suffering (sometimes related to or unrelated) to that particular truth/reality/object/concept from various angles and different variations.

Of course this analogy has its own flaws. But, to explain every possibility of a particular truth with single example is not possible. Hope this helps.

 

When I was young and learning the piano, I remember playing a C-Major triad and thinking it was the best thing ever. Even though my fingers could barely span that far to play the required three notes, the resultant auditory heaven was well worth it.

These days I tend to play late 1960s post-bebop avant-garde jazz shit, where pretty much every chord is an exposition of dissonance (with seldom resolutions back into harmony).  The idea of simply just listening to the harmony of a C-Major triad has long since become utterly boring, and the only way of getting a kick is to find as much dissonant noise as possible, so when it does finally resolve, it's worth the wait.

 

 

[gswva]

@allislove Look, I'm not evil okay... I'm the "desire" to be evil. God is the one actually being evil by accepting it.

At this point I'm just trying to see how far I can go and make fireworks with the ego. It's so funny to watch it all burn

[allislove]

@gswva

Evil/ego is an illusion. It doesn't exist. Let the thoughts regarding it to go, do not cling to them.
How? Breathe from the stomach, meditate every morning, etc. Anyway, godspeed ?

[juni]

great tranquilizer, feels like communication for making words unnecessary