Is there a way out of suffering?

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm

Suffering has nothing to do with ego or identity or thoughts. Suffering (pain precisely) is a feeling not a thought.  And I know you will say "no it's a thought".. Yes because as I told you before.. Feelings are thoughts and thoughts are feelings. 

 

You don’t know what it is yet not to be identified. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Without suffering how would one know what happiness is???

[traveler]

1 hour ago, --George-- said:

No that's not true. There are things happening. Obviously. Are you playing a trick on me?

What is happening is not real, it has no reality outside of it, no solidity. What is happening is Love, there is no separation, there is no "where" where Love is, there is no "where" where this is really happening. This is love in free fall.

[zeroISinfinity]

18 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Without suffering how would one know what happiness is???

Happiness is inherit in Being. 

There really Isn't any suffering. Stop being donkey recognise yourself. 

[Someone here]

@Nahm what? 

32 minutes ago, Nahm said:

You don’t know what it is yet not to be identified. 

 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Happiness is inherit in Being. 

There really Isn't any suffering. Stop being donkey recognise yourself. 

False. 100% false and fantasies.  100% goes against direct experience and the actual reality of the world.    

P.S coming from someone who complains about his job and his relationships all the time.. Seems like hypocrisy. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

It's possible to go through life seeing this and maintaining your preferences for pleasure, playing the game of duality, all the while understanding that the entire purpose of the game is free sheer creation and love, that the illusion of the point of reference of self is not what everything hinges on

The illusion of the self is the reality.  There is a sense of self that's vague and upon closer Investigation it is revealed to be a mirage... But as soon as the inquiry ends the illusion comes back and becomes the reality again. If you say as long as there is a sense of self there will be suffering?   Let it be then.. There will always be suffering because you can't get rid of the identification with the separate mind - body self completely and somehow remain alive and functional. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Someone here

[zeroISinfinity]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

False. 100% false and fantasies.  100% goes against direct experience and the actual reality of the world.    

P.S coming from someone who complains about his job and his relationships all the time.. Seems like hypocrisy. 

What are you afraid off?

Everything is you. Can't really be any other way. What everything is and what you really are is Infinite Love. Since Reality is wholistic and it's One. 

Don't mind me I just love life too. Whatever it brings. It's quite fun. Nothing really wrong with it. 

Yes I am human too sometimes and I make mistakes. You won't lose your humanity. 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

What are you afraid off? 

Afraid?  I never said I'm afraid of anything lol. I just stated a fact.. You said there's nothing but happiness and suffering doesn't exist.  Anyone with half a brain can see the absurdity of this statement. 

5 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Everything is you. Can't really be any other way. What everything is and what you really are is Infinite Love. Since Reality is wholistic and it's One. 

Alright how exactly is that supposed to feed a starving kid? 

 

5 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Yes I am human too sometimes and I make mistakes. You won't lose your humanity. 

Oh you are a human "too"?  So what else you thought you were? Talking about what is available to you via direct experience. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Someone here

[Nahm]

32 minutes ago, Someone here said:

False. 100% false and fantasies.  100% goes against direct experience and the actual reality of the world.    

P.S coming from someone who complains about his job and his relationships all the time.. Seems like hypocrisy. 

 

36 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm what? 

 

You’re still identified with thoughts. You haven’t transcended that yet, to have the reference point via direct experience, to really understand some of the perspectives which are being offered. Take a step back, zoom out a bit, and later, read this thread. Notice you made a thread asking for advice regarding the way out of suffering, and then reject all advice and maintain a position. When the positions are seen through they are transcended, and there is no inclination anymore to defend the position / self. The “self” is an idea of a self, via identifying with thoughts / attachment which thoughts / the idea of you being defended. Zero is giving you the straight skinny. One approach, is that it stems from yet to see through fear, to inspect it thoroughly and know what it is / have seen through it. Solipsism btw, is just a belief, a position. 

It also might be helpful to notice in your op, the establishing of your position, the ‘setting it in stone’ before anyone has a chance to converse. If you notice yourself doing this in your day to day, it is a wonderful relief to free yourself of the defensive posturing of it. It does wonders for depth of relationships as well as seeing opportunities previously unseen. Noting ‘wrong’ with it, sans how it feels to ‘carry’ it. It’s a way of asserting a belief or assumption, which one doesn’t want challenged, prior to communication.

[zeroISinfinity]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Afraid?  I never said I'm afraid of anything lol. I just stated a fact.. You said there's nothing but happiness and suffering doesn't exist.  Anyone with half a brain can see the absurdity of this statement. 

Well it's True. I am so sorry. More feelings man less thinking about reality.You view it from false human survival spot. God is Infinite happiness. 

Quote

Alright how exactly is that supposed to feed a starving kid? 

Well I was a starving kid. Starving kid has to exist or Reality wouldn't be Infinite + God is experiencing how it is to be starved kid. 

 

Quote

Oh you are a human "too"?  So what else you thought you were? Talking about what is available to you via direct experience. 

Well you are everything including all human stuff too. This work will improve your humanity it will not degrade it. 

Direct experience is God. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Someone here]

@Nahm alright I will listen to your advice. Maybe I'm being too argumentative.  But I just honestly didn't see a satisfying answer that actually makes sense. So that's why I'm disagreeing.. Because I'm actually disagreeing.   So far everyone are just trying to make suffering just a misperception.. Something that my mind is doing.. And I'm clearly seeing that's not the case. It's just not. 

Your question "what is suffering"?  "what it is"? .   I'm not sure why should that be a tricky question... It is just a feeling!,  a feeling that is being perceived directly and is unpleasant regardless of the thoughts attached to it.. In fact it is the feeling that triggers the thoughts.  

Anyways didn't expect getting satisfying answers.  Appreciate all the feedback tho. 

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura What's your current perception of the apparent paradox between accepting your suffering and trying to change it?

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by lmfao

[zeroISinfinity]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

The way out is in

Ok thanks for idea for new nonduality video. 

[mandyjw]

52 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The illusion of the self is the reality.  There is a sense of self that's vague and upon closer Investigation it is revealed to be a mirage... But as soon as the inquiry ends the illusion comes back and becomes the reality again. If you say as long as there is a sense of self there will be suffering?   Let it be then.. There will always be suffering because you can't get rid of the identification with the separate mind - body self completely and somehow remain alive and functional. 

Ok, yes, so you accept it, you let it be. Where's the suffering in that? 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Right on. Our goal is the same, transcending suffering to whatever extent possible. I hear you on experiencing suffering as feeling, or as pain. I would consider making a distinction just for consideration, to ‘try it on’ and see if it fits at all, between pain being physical sensation, and suffering being mental anguish. There is sensation to mental anguish indeed, but you are very clear on the sameness, so making distinction can be useful. Might reference the solo / togetherness / solo / togetherness like in spiral dynamics. ‘Things’ get digested similarly in a unification perspective, distinctions perspective, unification, distinctions, so on.  In a way we’re all exactly the same, yet we’re like infinite snowflakes too, no two being exactly the same. You and I might not relatively experience the same. However, when relativity is seen through, transcended, only absolute remains, and there are no longer any differences. My perspectives & comments are typically to getting to that absolute. 

I would utilize focus, attention, awareness, whichever word fits easiest, and use it like an inner flashlight to ‘go to’ exactly, precisely where the pain is in the body. Keep ‘shining the awareness on it’ to more and more see precisely what it is. Feel it as much as possible, as a student. Wide open to listen to it. This can be very revealing. I have experienced many times in working with people the actual lasting disappearance of pain they battled for years. People who for whatever reason didn’t respond to meds, dr’s & therapies. 

Also, a key, you might say ‘early on’, is recognizing that one does not actually know suffering outside of oneself in any case. Yes, there’s suffering in the world...yet, I can not say that I know that to be absolutely true. I only know my suffering, so to speak. 

[Mada_]

@Leo Gura How did you come to the insight of reincarnation?

[PopoyeSailor]

44 minutes ago, Mada_ said:

@Leo Gura How did you come to the insight of reincarnation?

 

 

 

[allislove]

In the morning I felt a strong pain. I was thinking 'this is it', no way out from this pain. Then, I urgently made an appointment with the doctor and the doctor said nothing to worry about, I just need to wait a few days. 

Why I am sharing it? Because, now when I know this is not a big deal, I don't feel the pain that much. I stopped pushing it out that much. 

So, the difference between psychological and physical suffering is a lie. There is no difference. No identification - everything is one - no suffering - only love ?

[lmfao]

@Mada_ I don't know about reincarnation specifically. You can be conscious of what reality is, and its nothing. My last mystical experience I thought, and even now I can feel it if I pay attention, "I am nothing, I will never not be nothing. And so I know, I know, that I will never die.".

Nothing will never go. Framing this in terms of reincarnation or souls, I don't know. Maybe you can find some sort of empirical or scientific answer by researching and etc, but that sort of endeavour seems too difficult to me. 

When people talk about" past lives", it could be something they're just "making up", your psychological structure expressing itself in a symbolic fantasy. But don't write off the possibility it's real. 

When I was meditating once, my mind imagined myself in a past life. It was a very vivid experience. If I am to believe the experience I had, I was a tall young African American (or just African) male in my past life who was a criminal and died by being shot by someone. In this supposed past life I killed people as a criminal. I got the impression I sacrificed myself before my death somehow, and changed my ways somehow. Bled to death in the middle of a road after being shot. A chubby African female onlooker who was distressed. They were a loved one or a very close friend I think. 

Again though, this is probably all bullshit. Who knows. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by lmfao