Is there a way out of suffering?

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Unseeking Seeker said:

@Someone here  ... pain is an experience whilst suffering the amplification of the pain by mind.

Once we recognise that our consciousness is eternal and we are merely having an experience as decided by ourself, to spherically understand all aspects of human life, we are no longer enmeshed in fear, being detached.

The law of karma determines the type of earth life we experience. If we inflict pain, we get back pain as of our own choosing, to understand that we should be in alignment with love.

Since most of us believe the mind-body to be all there is to us, this delusion causes us to suffer since we seek eternal joy within the ephemeral. An impossibility.

Once we internalise our attention and prioritise God connectivity, silence & stillness becomes our default orientation. Then, the external happenings do not disturb us. It is a slow process.

Have you actually done this process and no longer are affected by external unpleasant data? 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Pain, of course, is purely relative. If you're conscious enough, there will be not difference between pain and pleasure.

How do you even know that pain isn't pleasure, and pleasure isn't pain?

Where in the universe does it say that pain is painful?

If you really focus on pain while it's happening, you can start to notice that it's not actually painful, it's just a feeling.

Try poking yourself with a needle and actually FEEL it without the ego's drama.

It says HERE through ME.  Tada! Lol 

Actually yeah.. I have a theory.. Since everything Is relative.. The only absolute is whatever I am experiencing at the moment. Which is the relative.  Because the relative IS the absolute and the rest of the story ya know lol.. 

It is a way to intellectualize your way out of the suffering.. But I wonder if it's REALLY gonna work! 

[diamondpenguin]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@diamondpenguin Wherever you are, whoever you are, you are always floating around as a figment in the eternal mind of God.

Woah. So it doesnt matter if were living as lizards in the jungle or dmt elves. It doesn't matter if I'm an alien in the worlds of an unknown system. Or if I'm this being right now looking at this screen. Or if I'm a tiger in the jungle. It's all the same being endlessly morphing and modulating the level of consciousness between all its selves. Me and you and electrobeam and everyone else are the same entity. And almost no one knows this. Lots of us out there in the world are missing out on some amazing things. Big thanks leo for the help. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by diamondpenguin

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It is a way to intellectualize your way out of the suffering.. But I wonder if it's REALLY gonna work!

Stop fucking around and actually do it.

Take a needle, stick it in your finger, and don't feel pain.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

Woah. So it doesnt matter if were living as lizards in the jungle or dmt elves. It doesn't matter if I'm an alien in the worlds of an unknown system. Or if I'm this being right now looking at this screen. Or if I'm a tiger in the jungle. It's all the same being endlessly morphing and modulating the level of consciousness between all its selves. Me and you and electrobeam and everyone else are the same entity. And almost no one knows this.

Yup

The Universe is just an Infinite Mind. Like a CPU running every possible video game at once.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop fucking around and actually do it.

Will do it lol.  Maybe I will burn my finger or something and try to focus on the sensation as just being.. Or meaningless perception and will see.. Maybe I'm about to discover something huge. 

[Leo Gura]

@Someone here Don't burn yourself.

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Even death won't really save you because you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today.

So enjoy whatever comfort you can while you can because things are gonna get hairy soon.

If that is true then isn't the universe mostly an endless cycle of suffering, how do you come to terms with that? (Could almost compare it to hell)

A tiny percentage of beings become exposed to the wisdom of surrendering to the experience, let alone actually practise it to the point where they significantly reduce their suffering. It seems like we are doomed to reincarnate in countless lives with low levels of consciousness, if you're "lucky" to re-incarnate as human you are still more likely to be born as someone who is religious, probably in some shitty sate red or low orange region, full of delusions and suffering through all the problems of "conventional" people without surrendering to any of it. Suffering all the way to the very end.

What is the point of committing to all of these practises and work our ass off on trying to reach a higher level of consciousness, and becoming more accepting of reality, when in the end all this progress is lost and you will probably be reborn as someone who is much more primitive again and re-suffer in all the ways that you had found solutions to earlier?

[Someone here]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here Don't burn yourself.

Don't worry lol... I'm not gonna get contact with the fire directly.  Maybe I will touch something hot with my fingertip to feel a little painful sensation and try to actually accept it as It is without spraying concepts and judgments on top of it and will see how does that make the experience different. 

[Frenk]

[Merkabah]

In animals' psychology there is no such a thing as suffering. So the hapless human being reincarnated as an animal wouldn't be bothered by human-mind concepts like chasing success, upholding values, culture conditioning, worrying about future, survival outlooks and........! There goes a huge chunk of your suffering out the window!!!! So stop painting a gloomy picture and give us humans some break.........  

[0bserver]

8 minutes ago, Merkabah said:

In animals' psychology there is no such a thing as suffering. So the hapless human being reincarnated as an animal wouldn't be bothered by human-mind concepts like chasing success, upholding values, culture conditioning, worrying about future, survival outlooks and........! There goes a huge chunk of your suffering out the window!!!! So stop painting a gloomy picture and give us humans some break.........  

They absolutely can suffer. Suffering is a vital mechanism in evolution to maximise the propagation of species. We have even observed clinical depression symptoms in animals including lethargy, compulsive behaviours, disrupted appetite and sexual interest and even self harm. You can see cows visibly suffer for long periods when their calf is removed from them for example. The idea that animals cant suffer is extremely human/ego-centric and far from truth

[khalifa]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Because if we select 1 human out of 8 billion at random, chances are much more likely that you will be born in a shitty part of the world than in a good part.

And we haven't even considered animals. If you reincarnate as a random animal, most animals have it pretty hard. Chances you are you will reincarnate as a chicken in a factory farm or a bug that goes SPLAT on a car window shield.

Actually pain is conceptual and something your mind is doing. If you become conscious enough you can literally stop feeling pain as painful.

 

 

Why limit your theory to 1 out of creatures on earth? why not a different timezone, planet or an entire different universe that is even beyond our current understanding of chemistry/physics science

 

As a reference to another thread, perhaps you could still win a lottery after death being an infinite god above universes.

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

isn't the universe mostly an endless cycle of suffering, how do you come to terms with that?

By dying

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, khalifa said:

@Leo Gura

 

 

Why limit your theory to 1 out of creatures on earth? why not a different timezone, planet or an entire different universe that is even beyond our current understanding of chemistry/physics science

 

As a reference to another thread, perhaps you could still win a lottery after death being an infinite god above universes.

I guess he was just illustrating a point using a familiar example. There is no reason to believe that re-incarnation is somehow localised. 
Also the conservative estimate of intelligent civilisations (human level and above) is in the thousands of trillions in our observable universe alone, so who knows what we will re-incarnate as. But suffering seems to be a fundamental mechanism for maximising survival chances so no matter where or what you are reborn as, you will inevitably suffer

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Merkabah said:

In animals' psychology there is no such a thing as suffering.

Ha!

How convenient for you.

When I torture your children, I will use your same logic to deny their suffering as you do that of animals.

When you go to the police to complain, I will explain to them that there is no suffering in the psychology of your kind.

[Merkabah]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ha!

How convenient for you.

When I torture your children, I will use your same logic to deny their suffering as you do that of animals.

When you go to the police to complain, I will explain to them that there is no suffering in the psychology of your kind.

Does our current science attribute such suffering to the animals?? or you project your human traits onto them?? From my very limited information, animals only realize pain not suffering. Perhaps because they live solely in the moment....... am I wrong?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Merkabah said:

Does our current science attribute such suffering to the animals?? or you project your human traits onto them?? From my very limited information, animals only realize pain not suffering. Perhaps because they live solely in the moment....... am I wrong?

Show me some science which says that if I cut your child, it will suffer.

It will only realize pain, not suffering.

Notice the utter self-bias of your view.

[0bserver]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

By dying

Doesn't change the gloomy nature of the universe that a lot of people here seem to believe. Universe is still mostly suffering through different forms, unless there is some kind of silver lining that we don't know of yet. Maybe our imagination is limited by the fact that we can only observe the early days of the conscious experience. Universe will be thousands of times older than it is now, so maybe we are currently just in the dark ages. As the universe evolves and the beings in it become more conscious of their nature, the maximisation of self-love (and therefore maximisation of love for all conscious beings) will lead to much better societies and civilisations that we can't even currently imagine. I'd like to believe that the vast majority of the experience is happening in a more desirable/conscious state. If the experience of the universe of itself would mostly be negative then I would imagine we would not exist in the first place, the most advanced form of the universe possible, some advanced civilisation or whatever would put an end to this cycle.

You would probably respond with "The universe wants to experience it all, it loves everything that is happening", but how can we be sure of that? What if the stage we are in now is not what the universe necessarily "wants" to experience, but rather it's something it HAS to experience in order to reach to more desirable states of self-experience? More like a stepping stone.

[Merkabah]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Show me some science which says that if I cut your child, it will suffer.

It will only realize pain, not suffering.

Notice the utter self-bias of your view.

For what it is worth, my male cat knocked up a female cat a while ago and a littler of 4 cats were born. He is now dating that which used to be a female offspring of his !!! My point is because of their low consciousness the degree of their suffering has to be very different from human beings at least.........! Not as encumbered as us in viewing life and meanings in life........