Is there a way out of suffering?

[Someone here]

There is a lot of suffering that one can experience in this life. Some people are lucky they experience less suffering and some people are just fated to be in the middle of some extreme shit like starving kids in Africa etc.   Suffering exists so let's not waste time arguing about whether it exists or not.. My question is there a salvation? A permanent end to all forms of suffering?  If so what it is?  Because I don't think there is such a way except permanent annihilation. 

Please make your response non - classical and nuanced because it's so easy to deconstruct woo woo unrealistic answers. Thanks 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Someone here

[Unseeking Seeker]

@Someone here ... permanent end to suffering? Well, apart from the extreme example you have chosen like starvation or let us say extreme ill health, bondage as in slavery etc., the sufferer so suffering* (* cyclic pain & pleasure) no longer suffers once he knows himself.

In other words, we cease to suffer when our in-form consciousness is in alignment with our eternal singular consciousness or God consciousness.

This answer may not satisfy lower mind however. 

[Leo Gura]

Even death won't really save you because you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today.

So enjoy whatever comfort you can while you can because things are gonna get hairy soon.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Unseeking Seeker said:

@Someone here ... permanent end to suffering? Well, apart from the extreme example you have chosen like starvation or let us say extreme ill health, bondage as in slavery etc., the sufferer so suffering* (* cyclic pain & pleasure) no longer suffers once he knows himself.

In other words, we cease to suffer when our in-form consciousness is in alignment with our eternal singular consciousness or God consciousness.

This answer may not satisfy lower mind however. 

Yes it is not satisfying answer. 

As long as there is experience or bodily sensations whether one is identified as the body or not.. There is still painful sensations.   So let's say I'm identified as the observer of the body not the body itself(really this distinction is not even there.. It's just one thing) ..there will still be painful sensations in the body if it's going through it .. It's not a matter of identification. 

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

My question is there a salvation?

In the relative sense (your perspective) no. No end to it.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

If so what it is?

It just comes down to not listening to thought and ego. All suffering is caused by your perspective and listening to ego and identifying with ego. 

Salvation is accessible to you right now, but you must do exactly what you don't want to do. And that's why you suffer. 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Please make your response non - classical and nuanced because it's so easy to deconstruct woo woo unrealistic answers. Thanks 

Are you looking to not suffer? Well THE ANSWER is to simply not listen to thought. To not believe thought. 

But can you do that? Chances are, if you're suffering and aren't enlightened yet, then you probably can't. So no one on here can save you, even if we tell you exactly what to do. 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even death won't really save you because you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today.

So enjoy whatever comfort you can while you can because things are gonna get hairy soon.

Does that mean your answer is there is no permanent end to all suffering? It's gonna continue forever (with pauses in between)? 

[Leo Gura]

@Someone here The problem is that you're trying to escape yourself.

If there is an end to suffering it would require that you totally accept yourself however you are.

The paradox of suffering is that the only way to escape it is to surrender to it. Avoidance won't work.

[diamondpenguin]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even death won't really save you because you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today.

So enjoy whatever comfort you can while you can because things are gonna get hairy soon.

That's mindwarping. How does it work? When we die are we aware of being in the void? Then we all just born into the world as something and then we forget where we come from? I always wondered where we came from. It just seems so strange that all of sudden we're all just here. Almost like we all just spawned out of nowhere. We all are just born from nowhere and them we live 80 years and then dissapear. It's so mysterious 

[Leo Gura]

@diamondpenguin Wherever you are, whoever you are, you are always floating around as a figment in the eternal mind of God.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

It just comes down to not listening to thought and ego. All suffering is caused by your perspective and listening to ego and identifying with ego. 

Who listens to who?  There is no me AND " my ego".  There is not even an  ego or thinker of thoughts. Thoughts just arise randomly out of the blue.  And "your" response to them also arise in the same way.. Completely random and out of the blue.  So there is really nothing you can do in the area of listening or not listening to thoughts because there is no "you" in the middle of "your" thoughts. 

[electroBeam]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Who listens to who?  There is no me AND " my ego".  There is not even an  ego or thinker of thoughts. 

Don't get cocky here. You're still identified with an ego, even if your ego doesn't believe it.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And "your" response to them also arise in the same way.. Completely random and out of the blue.  So there is really nothing you can do in the area of listening or not listening to thoughts because there is no "you" in the middle of "your" thoughts. 

It arises but conscious effort to not listen to them can occur. 

 

Be careful not to be a wild fox zen. Don't spout non dual philosophy without feeling it. If you truly feel like you're in control, then take that as fact rather than trying to one up yourself by believing the non dual philosophy over what you feel is true. 

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here The problem is that you're trying to escape yourself.

If there is an end to suffering it would require that you totally accept yourself however you are.

The paradox of suffering is that the only way to escape it is to surrender to it. Avoidance won't work.

I get that.  But there is still something lacking here.  It's true that sometimes if one is experiencing extreme suffering.. Surrendering and acceptance will actually ease out the suffering contrary to what denial will do.  But isn't that like the last option?  Like it's just because you are powerless and there is nothing you can do about it so you just give up?  Because conventionally when you are experiencing suffering you run away looking for all possible solutions to end it.. And you only surrender when you discover that it's unsolvable. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But isn't that like the last option?  Like it's just because you are powerless and there is nothing you can do about it so you just give up? 

What's what liberation is. Complete surrender. Complete giving up.

Quote

Because conventionally when you are experiencing suffering you run away looking for all possible solutions to end it.. And you only surrender when you discover that it's unsolvable. 

Conventional people never transcend suffering precisely because they don't do the unthinkable: just give up.

You can manipulate reality as much as you want. Sometimes it will work. But in the end, it must ultimately fail because sickness or death will come for you and you will not be able to manipulate your way out of it.

Which is why the wise die before they die.

When Ramana Maharshi was diagnosed with cancer on his arm and his followers tried to treat it, he said something along the lines of "Nevermind. This body is just mud. Let it die." That is a surrendered man.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

Don't get cocky here. You're still identified with an ego, even if your ego doesn't believe it.

LOL please this is hilarious. Each moment there is a new me and a new ego and a new thoughts. There is no one identified or misidentified with anything.  Do with this fact whatever you want. 

[Frenk]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today.

 

Why not in a better shape?

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Conventional people never transcend suffering precisely because they don't do the unthinkable: just give up.

You can manipulate reality as much as you want. Sometimes it will work. But in the end, it must ultimately fail because sickness or death will come for you and you will not be able to manipulate your way out of it.

Which is why the wise die before they die.

When Ramana Maharshi was diagnosed with cancer on his arm and his followers tried to treat it, he said something along the lines of "Nevermind. This body is just mud. Let it die." That is a surrendered man.

I agree and that's actually what came to my mind as the only way to deal with suffering. But does that mean you conquered suffering permanently?  Because you Believe in reincarnation ( I honestly have no idea what happens after the body dies).  

Also I don't think that ramana maharishi couldn't feel pain for example.. So at least there is minimum level of pain that you just CANNOT avoid.. Right?

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Frenk said:

Why not in a better shape?

Because if we select 1 human out of 8 billion at random, chances are much more likely that you will be born in a shitty part of the world than in a good part.

And we haven't even considered animals. If you reincarnate as a random animal, most animals have it pretty hard. Chances you are you will reincarnate as a chicken in a factory farm or a bug that goes SPLAT on a car window shield.

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I agree and that's actually what came to my mind as the only way to deal with suffering. But does that mean you conquered suffering permanently?  Because you Believe in reincarnation ( I honestly have no idea what happens after the body dies).  

Also I don't think that ramana maharishi couldn't feel pain for example.. So at least there is minimum level of pain that you just CANNOT avoid.. Right?

Actually pain is conceptual and something your mind is doing. If you become conscious enough you can literally stop feeling pain as painful.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@Someone here  ... pain is an experience whilst suffering the amplification of the pain by mind.

Once we recognise that our consciousness is eternal and we are merely having an experience as decided by ourself, to spherically understand all aspects of human life, we are no longer enmeshed in fear, being detached.

The law of karma determines the type of earth life we experience. If we inflict pain, we get back pain as of our own choosing, to understand that we should be in alignment with love.

Since most of us believe the mind-body to be all there is to us, this delusion causes us to suffer since we seek eternal joy within the ephemeral. An impossibility.

Once we internalise our attention and prioritise God connectivity, silence & stillness becomes our default orientation. Then, the external happenings do not disturb us. It is a slow process.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually pain is a conceptual and something your mind is doing. If you become conscious enough you can literally stop feeling pain as painful.

How?  Honestly I can't get how is that possible. 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How?  Honestly I can't get how is that possible. 

Pain, of course, is purely relative. If you're conscious enough, there will be not difference between pain and pleasure.

How do you even know that pain isn't pleasure, and pleasure isn't pain?

Where in the universe does it say that pain is painful?

If you really focus on pain while it's happening, you can start to notice that it's not actually painful, it's just a feeling.

Try poking yourself with a needle and actually FEEL it without the ego's drama.