Bad Experiences On Psychedelics (mushrooms)

[David1]

In his latest vid, Leo asks himself the question how its even possible to have a bad experience on mushrooms. So i'll explain my bad experiences and how they came to be. There are a few different ways you can have a bad trip, at least in my experience. The first one, and Leo indicated on this, when you are not familliar with meditation. This is what happened to me:  many years ago, i didn't know anything about psychedelics. I wasn't into self developement and i didn't know anything about meditation or spirituality. A friend of mine got hold of some mushrooms, and we decided to take them one evening. We each took about 2.5 grams dried psylocibine cubensis. My expectation was that it was going to be like smoking a few joints. I was wrong. At first it was all funny, untill the waves started to get stronger and i started to lose coherency in my thoughts, the boundry between external and internal reality started to disolve. Ego death started to set in. At this point, my monkey mind started to get alarmed. The first thing it said was : 'i don't want this'. And from there on a whole train of thoughts started, and because i wasn't familiar with meditation, i had no defence against it. I was lucky to have my friend there who helped me through it. If he wasn't there, god knows what would have happened. I probably would have called 911 or something, and then things would have really gotten out of hand. Later i learned that i took a dose that was 'on the verge'. Ego death starts to set in, but the ego can still struggle against it. It is not completely overwhelmed by the mushrooms.

Another way things can turn bad is : other people. Be very careful with having other people around. Especially with people that you are not that familiar with, or people who are ignorent about psychedelics and don't know how to behave around people on them. On mushrooms, you become very sensitive to 'vibes'. And people can (unwillingly) 'contaminate' you with their bad vibes. Once you start to have negative feelings, 'vibes' or thoughts they can snowball into a full blown bad trip very fast. And it's very challenging to stop this snowball effect. Also TV can have this same effect. I would advise to not watch TV at all while on psychedelics, but if you do, make sure you chose wisely what you watch. Most people don't realize this, but TV is a very negative and toxic medium.

Another time i had a bad experience, and this one was the worst i had, is because of overthinking an 'insight' i had. I entered this 'non dualistic' state, where there is no boundry between internal and external reality, and i had a profound realization of oneness and wholeness. While i was contemplating this, at first wonderful and magical feeling and insight, this suddenly turned on me because i somehow got the idea that all the bad things in the world, all the misery and suffering that is going on in the world was my fault . I felt ashamed and upset by this, and from there on the snowball effect started to kick in again. And this time i had a really hard time getting out of it. I got stuck in a thought loop for a while, and a feeling of unimaginable despair and sadness started to get a hold of me. I felt like i was being judged and condemned to an eternity in abandonment and isolation. The inscription on the gates of hell in Dante's Inferno maybe best describe this feeling : Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. 

Just to point out, things can take a turn for the worse with psychedelics. But whether the experience is good or bad, there is always a lesson to learn and maybe the bad experiences teaches the most valuable lessons.

 

[Paul EMD]

@David1 Very interesting. Do you plan on trying them again now that you are meditating and more conscious than then?

[Richard Alpert]

Thanks for sharing.

Thinking that we would have some control how the trip will go would be nuts. But obviously set/setting, mental state, dosage has to be on point. I have had only good trips, but there have been few moments on those where i can see things go could get very uncomfortable.

I think Terrence Mckenna stayed away from mushrooms for the last decade when he was alive. Im not 100% sure, but there was this rumour going on. He had some very bad trip where he was going nuts. I think he did dmt etc. after that, but stayed away from shrooms. Maybe someone knows better?

[ChimpBrain]

I've had something like 60-80 psychedelic experiences over the past 20yrs. Maybe more, it's hard to estimate over a 20yr period. Never had a bad trip, nothing even bordering on one actually. Also, in my younger days, these trips were usually in groups of 2-10 people and I never saw anyone else have what I'd consider a truly "bad trip" in the common sense of the phrase either. I saw people overwhelmed with emotion and cry a lot, but after its over that feels like healing, not a bad trip. The only times I saw anything regrettable happen were when people were drinking heavily while on LSD. Alcohol simply does not mix well with psychedelics. They're polar opposites. 

 

Just my experience. I'm in no way trying to downplay your negative experiences. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by ChimpBrain

[Leo Gura]

I was asking myself how it was possible for ME to have a bad trip on mushrooms, not the general population. I can easily see how the general population gets bad trips. Doesn't surprise me at all when I read the stupid things people do in their trip reports, like dosing potent psychedelics by eyeball without a scale, or drinking and smoking weed at the same time.

[David1]

@Paul EMD I take them about twice a year now. The vast majority of my experiences were absolutely stunning. And of those few bad experiences i had i know that it happened because of my inexperience and carelessness. I was young and ignorent, we didn't have the information that is out there now.

[David1]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I was asking myself how it was possible for ME to have a bad trip on mushrooms, not the general population. I can easily see how the general population gets bad trips. Doesn't surprise me at all when I read the stupid things people do in their trip reports, like dosing potent psychedelics by eyeball without a scale, or drinking and smoking weed at the same time.

The risk of having a bad trip can be minimized, but never completely eliminated. A bad experience can also be very valuable in restrospect. Yes, dosing is very important. As a rule of thumb, i never use something that is not natural. I will not take for example LSD. I only take the pure mushroom. Nothing powdered or extract or whatever. I have to see what it is i'm taking. That makes dosing a little trickier, because i'm never sure how potent the mushrooms will be. But i don't use test kits, and this way i am sure of what i'm putting in my body. Mixing alcohol and psychedelics is a big mistake obviously. Cannabis however is different, it is more symbiotic with mushrooms. I use cannabis sometimes to push me over the 'threshold'

[mystic]

"It should be noted that like all 'major' hallucinogens, psilocybin can precipitate psychotic episodes and uncover or aggravate previous mental illness. If you're stressed out or depressed, don't take mushrooms; if you have schizophrenia or something alike, DO NOT take mushrooms."

Of course you already know this. I really cannot understand why you are taking drugs. Your body should be clean. Keep it clean! 

[David1]

6 minutes ago, mystic said:

I really cannot understand why you are taking drugs. Your body should be clean. Keep it clean! 

Uff. Please, don't patronize people. We are all adults here (most of us i suppose). And for those who are not an adult, you're absolutely right. They should stay away from all substances. I can perfectly determine for myself what i can handle and what not. I don't need laws or rules or whatever. I do my own research. In my opinion, all substances should be legal, including cocain, heroin and what not. If you're stupid enough to get addicted to that crap, you deserve it. 

[mystic]

I am not patronizing anyone. I am just saying that I cannot understand why someone would take drugs. It was like a question.

Take whatever you want.

[David1]

33 minutes ago, mystic said:

I am not patronizing anyone. I am just saying that I cannot understand why someone would take drugs. It was like a question.

Take whatever you want.

Thats perfectly fine, nobody is forcing you to take anything. Psychedelics are not for everyone. People who cling to their ego, or have problems with giving up control and surrender, will not have a good experience. They will feel as if they're going crazy. If you can't shut up your monkey mind, you're going to be in trouble when you take these substances.

 People who do psychedelics are not the ones who will rob liqor stores or break into houses in order to get money to maintain their addiction. The opposite is true. They cure addiction. Besides, i bet that you take drugs too. You just don't call it drugs. Alcohol, nicotine, tobacco, sugar, TV, sex...everything that alters your brain chemistry can be seen as a 'drug'.

Edited August 8, 2016 by David1

[mystic]

31 minutes ago, David1 said:

Besides, i bet that you take drugs too. You just don't call it drugs. Alcohol, nicotine, tobacco, sugar, TV, sex...everything that alters your brain chemistry can be seen as a 'drug'.

Well, except sex, which I believe is great for the brain, no I don't take/do any of the above. I understand what you are trying to say though. In any case let's agree that we have a different perspective on this.

As I said in another topic, reading Oshos teachings I read that to achieve Enlightenment at first you must have the desire to get there. Secondly you must cleanse yourself. This means you must have a healthy body first and then clean your thoughts and your emotions. This is what Osho believed and sounds very logical to me.

For me reading that people are taking mushrooms for spiritual reasons is like trying to "cheat" just to get there.

Again: I am just writing my point of view. I am not judging anyone. 

For me the road to Enlightenment is a road through love and what I believe is that by taking drugs someone just does not love himself. Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. I am open to hear your point of view!

[David1]

12 minutes ago, mystic said:

This means you must have a healthy body first and then clean your thoughts and your emotions. This is what Osho believed and sounds very logical to me.

Yes, this is very true. The body is a reflection of the mind and vice versa. The easiest route is to start with the body. Work out, pay attention to your diet, and your mind will also become more disciplined and stronger. But it works the other way around too. If you start with cleaning up your mind, meditating and doing conscious work, you will almost automatically start to work on your body too. The body is the mind.

24 minutes ago, mystic said:

For me the road to Enlightenment is a road through love and what I believe is that by taking drugs someone just does not love himself. Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. I am open to hear your point of view!

Everybody has to walk their own path. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for someone else. Some people claim that enduring extreme pain works for them, gives them spiritual insights etc. It's not for me, but i can see and understand how that would work for them. Try to keep an open mind.