Higher the stage = more effectiveness?

[Hello from Russia]

Let's say we have a stage orange, stage yellow and stage turquoise people as example ( we don't take green, because they are often a bunch of lazy hippies who have trauma about any type of success)

Let's say we have a demanding creative project if some kind - can be a career, a business or any type of strong mission or Life Purpose

Could we say that the more conscious the person the more effective hell be in accomplishing it and actually acing it? If so, to how much extent it will be, compared to let's say, some ambitiously stage orange dude? And to what extent hell be able to take more complex endeavours?

On a more collective note, what do you think of the potential of northern Europe overtaking China's/Indian/US economies by sheer consciousness development and heightened creative capacity due to it?

@Leo Gura would love to know your opinion on this and the opinion of others too

[Waken]

my thoughts: I think that perhaps you could say that spiral development is just raising your energy through the chakras. The higher your state of being, the better you will function. Like if you're happy, don't you function better then when you're depressed? 

[Hello from Russia]

.@Waken Yeah, that is why Scandinavian countries rank best in happiness. I'm wondering how it might corelate with economic advancement and personal achievement. Can they really generate a super high GDP in long term even though they have a very low amount of population? 

China/US/India seems  to abuse cheap labour a lot as the foundational basis for their economies (maybe us a bit to the less extend). 

I'm wondering if you can have a thriving economy with only 15m population in a country but with a high degree of highly conscious and creative people. Will this lack of RAW resources be that important in the future? They will basically have to generate 100x value on average for every individual in a country

Edited August 9, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Himanshu]

12 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Could we say that the more conscious the person the more effective he'll be in accomplishing it and actually acing it?

That's a great question, and I have been thinking about how wisdom and effectiveness are directly related.

If we see wisdom as "True understanding of how reality (or an aspect of reality) works" and effectiveness as "the degree to which you are successful in creating the desired outcome in reality."

So, if I really understand something, then I can apply it to the real world and (with a reasonable probability) produce the desired result. If I really understand entrepreneurship, for example, then I am able to build and launch profitable businesses,. and if I really understand how human body works, I am able to keep it well-functioning for a long time. etc.

That gets armchair philosophizing - sitting and thinking that I have got it all figured out because I saw a video on it - out of the way.

Moving up the spiral = Taking more perspectives = Deepening your understanding of reality

The more perspectives a person can see from, the more WIN-WIN-WIN (I win, YOU win, EVERYONE wins) ideas he/she can propose and higher the probability that those ideas are actually implemented and are successful. 

--

Red is centered in his body

Orange is centered in his intellect/rationality

Green is centered in his emotions

Personal effectiveness (to not keep fighting yourself and align with your life purpose) requires a substantial degree of body-intellect-emotions (or Red-Orange-Green) integration.. that is, imo, what marks Stage Yellow. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Himanshu

[Waken]

@Himanshu

Quote

 

Red is centered in his body

Orange is centered in his intellect/rationality

Green is centered in his emotions

 

Where do you have this from? Is there something written about this? I find these sort of things interesting:-)

[soos_mite_ah]

2 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Let's say we have a stage orange, stage yellow and stage turquoise people as example ( we don't take green, because they are often a bunch of lazy hippies who have trauma about any type of success)

Let's say we have a demanding creative project if some kind - can be a career, a business or any type of strong mission or Life Purpose

Could we say that the more conscious the person the more effective hell be in accomplishing it and actually acing it? If so, to how much extent it will be, compared to let's say, some ambitiously stage orange dude? And to what extent hell be able to take more complex endeavours?

I would say yes, generally, more consciousness yields to more effectiveness. The higher stages typically have already integrated things from the lower stages in a healthy way. 

In regards to green being lazy hippies, I would be very careful with that stereotype. Stage green can be immensely beneficial to corporations because there is more of a concern for people's rights, a sense of equality, people's general well being, and limits to how many hours one can work. All of these things ensure that workers are happy, motivated, and energized enough to work in their most effective and productive state.

I had to study a lot of this in a few of my management courses in college. If there is a lack of justice and equality in an organization and if it is too hierarchical, people are not going to want to work in that company. They will leave or get fired really soon and then it will cost more time, money, and resources to train new employees which can rack up a lot of costs in a corporation. Another example is that if you focus on the end goal, say get as much profit as possible in one quarter, rather than how ethical the practices are done, there will be an incentive for illegal behaviors on behalf of the employees which can cause a company to face lawsuits, controversies, etc. which i would argue is the antithesis of efficiency. Finally,  not taking people's needs into account whether that be their physical needs regarding their salaries and their advancement opportunities, or their emotional needs such as creating a healthy work environment, can lead to counterproductive work behaviors such as wasting resources (ie use too many materials, stealing supplies, not doing work), incivility and gossip, harassment, and sabotage, none of which are conducive to a efficient workplace. 

In many ways, green can be more efficient than orange. It is a huge generalization that stage green is all about being a lazy hippie. That is the equivalent of saying orange is mainly characterized by the Kardashians and nothing else. There is an immense amount of diversity and manifestations of every stage. 

 

However, while higher stages can usually yield to more efficiency, there are exceptions and one needs to also take context into mind. Sometimes, complex systems from higher systems can slow groups down. For instance if someone is running a small business with less than 10 people (sort of like in a stage purple sense) it would be counterproductive to introduce a lot of bureaucratic stage orange measures of communication (ie if you have some complaint, submit this form to this person etc. ) than to just directly talk to the person you're having a problem with. However, in a larger corporation of say 10000 people, that form of communication will aid in efficiency because it will organize the sentiments of a large group of people in a way that it is actually coherent and isn't a large mess of people trying to talk over each other. 

If you go up to a warlord type setting, I highly doubt that they will be receptive of a bunch of stage green ideals in management. If you approach it from that high of a stage, you'll probably get your throat slit for trying to flatten the hierarchy. Instead in a more red environment such as in the middle ages, it is more conducive to lead with red principals because they aid in your survival. Healthy is also something that is dependent on context and circumstance. 

[Shubhanshu san]

Don't employ people through this model, individuals are widely scattered in several stages. Instead of classifying a person through colors, you can rather decide what kind of person you need for the job. The person should match the energy of your organization and the energy of the work he or she is supposed to do. I am using energy here because relying upon distinctions in personalities would certainly miss out some aspects that are too esoteric to put out through words especially when it comes to human psychology and body language. A keen observation is a must.

Totally depends on the job,

yellow, green might do well in creative projects.
If you want a loyal person, the best option would be blue.
If you want a person who leads them all, it can be a person with aspects of orange and blue mixed in him.
We don't have an abundance of turquoise individuals, but from the principles of spiral dynamics they can take any role, the only question is, will they?

Edited August 9, 2020 by Shubhanshu san

[Artsu]

I can go past turquoise and i am struggling to do basic studies at university.

Once you go past orange, career becomes less important. So i think orange may be the best at the examples mentioned.

However, what about developing new frameworks for understanding some subject? Turquoise can change the game.

If you want to play the game,  that is.

 

Edit: also, not sure if the green = lazy hippies comment was serious. Youre pointing out a flaw in the SD model.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Artsu

[soos_mite_ah]

16 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Once you go past orange, career becomes less important. So i think orange may be the best at the examples mentioned.

Career can still be pretty important in the other stages. It just becomes more purposeful because the values have shifted from pursuing money and status just for it's sake to pursuing a higher sense of life purpose. 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

( we don't take green, because they are often a bunch of lazy hippies who have trauma about any type of success)

You really misunderstand Green.

Quote

Could we say that the more conscious the person the more effective hell be in accomplishing it and actually acing it?

No, because every stage has different priorities and values.

The way your question is framed is already highly biased towards the value of effectiveness, which is a stage Orange value. Other stages may simply not care about effectiveness.

Effectiveness is not some absolute good. It is a relative priority. And effectiveness can mean different things to different stages. You could have effectiveness at earning money vs effectiveness at helping the poor vs effectiveness at meditation. Which all require different abilities and motivations.

[Sempiternity]

4 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

 ( we don't take green, because they are often a bunch of lazy hippies who have trauma about any type of success)

There is a difference between low Stage Green and high Green. Take Burning Man for example. One of the best examples of Green society. One of their main principles of their society is 'Radical self reliance' and what they call 'Doocracy', which is all about getting shit done. They work extremely hard, working day and night, sometimes in triple digit desert temperatures. They build an entire city, with hospitals, an airport, massive art installations, streets with street signs and light poles, community hubs etc., all within a matter of weeks in the middle of a desolate desert in Nevada. 

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

( we don't take green, because they are often a bunch of lazy hippies who have trauma about any type of success)

That is a small subset of green. Green also includes many highly motivated people in politics, law, social work, psychologists, environmental work, artists etc. 

[Artsu]

48 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Career can still be pretty important in the other stages. It just becomes more purposeful because the values have shifted from pursuing money and status just for it's sake to pursuing a higher sense of life purpose. 

Well i don't know about others, but i have a hard time finding careers that would help me pursue my life purpose.

I do think that people who really love what they do and are effective at it have a tendency to go past orange (they're self actualised, in other words), but the whole 9-5 work life that is so prevalent in society really seems to be aimed at orange. 'The Achiever'.

Society should be more accommodating to those with high consciousness. We're the ones moving society forward, not just keeping it running with no questions asked. (I guess the powerful don't like people asking questions)

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Well i don't know about others, but i have a hard time finding careers that would help me pursue my life purpose.

Yeah that's why life purpose is so tricky. Also life purpose might not always come with a set career you can follow. Sometimes, you need to create a career from scratch that aligns with your life purpose. That is much harder than falling into the pattern of *okay let me go to college, get a degree, get hired etc* Society does contribute to this being hard, but just being creative in general by itself can be difficult. 

5 minutes ago, Artsu said:

(I guess the powerful don't like people asking questions)

Pretty much. It threatens their power and the status quo, why would they want to question/change a system that already benefits their ego and works for them? 

[Artsu]

1 minute ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Yeah that's why life purpose is so tricky. Also life purpose might not always come with a set career you can follow. Sometimes, you need to create a career from scratch that aligns with your life purpose. That is much harder than falling into the pattern of *okay let me go to college, get a degree, get hired etc* Society does contribute to this being hard, but just being creative in general by itself can be difficult. 

Pretty much. It threatens their power and the status quo, why would they want to question/change a system that already benefits their ego and works for them? 

Threats to power may be the reason why schizophrenics are so heavily medicated.

When you have a break with reality, it basically means you stop accepting what youre told at face value. For a while you are lost, but then you start really piecing it together and seeing reality in a way that is less effected by propaganda etc and can help others accomplish the same.

So, the elites want to keep these people tranquilised so that they are less effective. They want us to stay lost, lest we figure out the game.

[Himanshu]

@Waken

This also goes very well with the Triune brain model.. which says that we actually have 3 brains nested inside of each other. 

Human beings first developed a Reptilian brain, then a Limbic brain, and then Neocortex. So, the Reptillian brain (automatic instincts) is nested inside the Limbic Brain (Building social bonds, caring for each other), which in turn is nested inside the Neocortex (the rational or thinking brain)

 

 

This roughly corresponds with Spiral Dynamics as well.. 

 

 

 

All Tier 1 stages have a primary center of intelligence - one of the brains overpowering the others.

• Beige (Physical)
• Purple (Emotional > Physical)
• Red (Physical> Rational)
• Blue (Physical> Rational)
• Orange (Rational > Instinctual)
• Green (Emotional > Rational)

The leap to 2nd tier is the integration of instincts, emotions, and rationality - so that they are in sync. 

To answer your question:

• Red is concerned about his own immediate bodily needs and how to gratify them immediately. That's the reptilian brain - eat, fuck and kill. His identity (and thus his survival) is limited to his body. (That's why the adornments and "scars are a symbol of pride" etc.). 
• Blue is an expansion of Red. Now instead of 'I am this body which I must save at all costs', it becomes "all the bodies which has these features -ethnicity, place of belonging etc." - are my brothers and sisters and a part of my identity. Notice that it is still limited to 'physical' aspects of reality. 
• Orange is centered in the mind. Conceptual ideas like achievement and success start to take hold.
• Green is centered in emotions. Interpersonal relationships and social bonding become most important.

 

You are tier-2 when you can revisit and integrate all of them into a cohesive, well-coordinated whole - so that none of them overpowers the other. 

 

I don't know how accurate that is. I'm just playin'. 

[Waken]

@Himanshu That's wonderful! Many thanks to you good sir 

Just playing is fine