The Illusion Of Love

[ttm]

9 hours ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Let me ask you, how much have you researched this topic?

Youre 18?

Is this some kind of competition? With a requirement to be an adult to participate?

9 hours ago, Matthew Lamot said:

I've -- came to the conclusion (not belief) that there is only one way to realize the Self.

I know I'm doing the right thing, because I know my experience.

“When asked how many paths reach enlightenment, the monk kicked a heap of sand. ‘Count,’ he smiled, ‘and then find more grains.”

How can you be so sure that the extrapolation from your experience to other people's experience is valid?

9 hours ago, Matthew Lamot said:

I used to argue this angry "non dogma" bullshit as a red herring to avoid being truly open minded, but I soon quickly learned that it got me nowhere, it was an ego fueulliing mind game.  So I dropped it and spent my energy finding out what works.

For a person who dropped arguing, you surely seem to argue a lot. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by ttm

[electroBeam]

16 hours ago, Matthew Lamot said:

This is the perfect example of believing the wrong teachings.  This is why hardly anybody becomes enlightened or free from the illusion.

And the problem is getting worse, because we have so many people now, whole models telling us the same thing, that being human is special, loveable, and is the divinity of all things because it is what is.

The real truth is that these traits come from a feeling of duality.  Incompleteness - there is something inherently wrong with "me".

And the New Age encourages that we "love" this about ourselves, because it is as it is.

This is bullshit, and it does not take a genius, only a small amount of thought to see that this new paradigm of self love actually does nothing more than reinforce the illusion of incompleteness.

Enlightened or whole people are not selfish, are not unkind, and do not need self love or self esteem.

Enlightenment is knowing (knowledge and understanding integrated and lived beyond mere non-dual experience) that what I am is without doubt pure, whole, limitless, untouched, non dual reality.  There is no room for wondering if im special in this paradigm.

Non duality is a statement that is true for everyone, despite the fact that hardly anybody is ready to hear it and live it.

People would rather live their misery and negativity and try to "love" it because ignorance is hard wired and not easy to undo

Well that's strange, because I haven't read any books about enlightenment, or spoken to anyone about meditation apart from Leo's videos.

I never said you had to love yourself, all im saying is that you shouldn't hate people because of their egoism. When you hate someone, you're implying that you think they shouldn't be there, like you are arrogantly telling god( or universe if you hate that word) that he should not have created that. Well guess what, god, who is more powerful, and almighty than what you will ever be, did put them there, they are in awareness, and if you want to reach high levels of consciousness, you better get on god's page, and accept them as well. 

Question why do you believe selfishness is bad? I guarantee you it will come down to some arbitrary belief, that the universe doesn't obey. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by electroBeam

[Matthew Lamot]

8 hours ago, ttm said:

Is this some kind of competition? With a requirement to be an adult to participate?

“When asked how many paths reach enlightenment, the monk kicked a heap of sand. ‘Count,’ he smiled, ‘and then find more grains.”

How can you be so sure that the extrapolation from your experience to other people's experience is valid?

For a person who dropped arguing, you surely seem to argue a lot. 

LOL, I see you want a reaction from that.  I have dropped arguing, thats why im not even going to entertain your need for stimulation.  This is a forum, in real life I could just sit there and communicate Im not playing your games.  But here I need to type words.  

[Matthew Lamot]

5 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Well that's strange, because I haven't read any books about enlightenment, or spoken to anyone about meditation apart from Leo's videos.

I never said you had to love yourself, all im saying is that you shouldn't hate people because of their egoism. When you hate someone, you're implying that you think they shouldn't be there, like you are arrogantly telling god( or universe if you hate that word) that he should not have created that. Well guess what, god, who is more powerful, and almighty than what you will ever be, did put them there, they are in awareness, and if you want to reach high levels of consciousness, you better get on god's page, and accept them as well. 

Question why do you believe selfishness is bad? I guarantee you it will come down to some arbitrary belief, that the universe doesn't obey. 

I'm just telling you how it works.  You want to argue and keep hold of your views, thats fine.  I speak to sincere people who are interested in taking different perspectives and questioning their existing knowledge.  No true non dual teaching advocates the acceptance of dysfunction.  I used your statement not in the context of actually answering you, but to illustrate a common misconception.  If you were interested and humble you would inqure instead of get on your soap box trying to prove how uninformed and misunderstanding of your view i am.  This is common in the world of Maya, which IS fine, but it's got nothing to do with non duality, its just pious platitudes and gross minsundestanding of the proper teachings.  If you want to learn then start asking what else is out there, be curious or stick to your many enlightenment books, whatever.  I dont care.  Learn sanskrit or go to a teacher who has steeped themselves in the actual teachings instead of reading New Age regurgitated crap that borrows the same ideas but nobody notices this doesnt actually work.  Keep going to Satsang for "experiences" and mistake experiences for Realization.  Realization is knowledge.  

[Matthew Lamot]

For those who are interested in another POV about Neo-Advaita and New Ageism, an educated perspective on how its actually doesn't work and that it is a contradictory and delusional system here is an article by James Swartz http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/james_swartz/neoAdvaita.htm

Or, just stick reading your New Age books and visiting Satsang.  The choice is ultimately yours, but I'm speaking to a wider audience here and I thank you @Leo Gura for allowing critique on your forum.  I know it is hard when people come along and have questions about the teachers you and your mod team hold in high esteem, but I suspect that you will get something from this too.

[electroBeam]

@Matthew Lamot "or stick to your many enlightenment books" you didn't read anything I wrote, didn't you? Pity.

What I told you wasn't a belief, it was a fact that my experience proved to me.

I'll take you up on your offer to learn and question my beliefs. But I don't want to hear about your pretentious, obnoxious hatred for new ageism, because as many others see, its so egotistical and dogmatic it makes everyone on here cringe.

Give us on this forum advice about how to expand our awareness, actual techniques. Not some beliefs about how mighty your crystalized 8 bc book is. Because when I hear beliefs that are backed up by 0 evidence, and sound like they are being told by an old pissed of British man whose soul purpose is to pressure sell his ego, I as many others do, switch off.

If you can't present that, your like every other pretentious, dogmatic jerk on this forum. 

[Matthew Lamot]

9 hours ago, Kenya said:

@Matthew Lamot I'm sorry but what?????

You've just defended yourself, your beliefs, all that you've practiced, realised, experienced, heard, and know, like it means anything with this work  

I normally skim over your posts because I've noticed them to be completley egotistical in my short and unqualified appraisal, yet you need a little smack in the head to wake up. 

I don't know how to help you my friend except to say that, over this forum, you sound like you're looking in the wrong places for the wrong thing. 

Edit: This isn't an attack, and ultimatley I wish you the best, truly. But it can still surprise me how someone who claims so much wisdom falls short. 

These are not beliefs.  Experience is not a belief, and experience is the burning away of karma.  Let me draw an analogy.  If you are looking to create a Michelin Star meal, would you ask Ronald MacDonnald for a recipe?

You would, then you would find that Ronald MacDonald hasnt got the answer.  That is learning if you learn from it.  If you dont then youre a fool.  This is still relative existence, so there is still a Jiva and he is still seeking.  Dont mix an "empty mind" with Enlightnment.  Enlightenment is not the loss of the mind or its world experience or the loss of the ego.  Enlightenment is knowledge.  

What you are seeing here is your own ignorance and inability to question the apparent teachings you are being taught.  That is not your fault, it is your karma and your vasanas making you do it.

My results belong to God.  Not the jiva or the Self, but the environment.  Thats karma yoga.  I can try to make a point, but freedom is not about resting on laurels, its about making points but not being attacjed to outcome.  I will answer your questions or insults or attacks, but this does not mean im attached.

There is real teaching number 1.

Did you know that? No.  What you know is some crap about being egotistical lol

You actually have no knowledge base with to come at me, because you dont know the real teaching.  You know the false nonsense, and if people dont abide by that nonsense they are "egotistical" lol

Anyway, open your mind, or dont.  It does not matter.  Remember I am here because there ARE people willing to investigate the crap and look for the real teachings.  Those will be far and few on a forum like this 

[Matthew Lamot]

8 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Matthew Lamot "or stick to your many enlightenment books" you didn't read anything I wrote, didn't you? Pity.

What I told you wasn't a belief, it was a fact that my experience proved to me.

I'll take you up on your offer to learn and question my beliefs. But I don't want to hear about your pretentious, obnoxious hatred for new ageism, because as many others see, its so egotistical and dogmatic it makes everyone on here cringe.

Give us on this forum advice about how to expand our awareness, actual techniques. Not some beliefs about how mighty your crystalized 8 bc book is. Because when I hear beliefs that are backed up by 0 evidence, and sound like they are being told by an old pissed of British man whose soul purpose is to pressure sell his ego, I as many others do, switch off.

If you can't present that, your like every other pretentious, dogmatic jerk on this forum. 

I have given you an ultimate guide to self inquiry, with about tn videos attached.  I also helped somebody practically with self inquiry and they returned with feedback.

I also said the only theory one needs to know is non dual teachings.

Whats this crap about my beliefs.  Read what Im saying.  It is learned experience of finding out that New Ageism wont do the job.

Take all the hate out of it, and look at the words Im saying.  There is Gold in it.

The emotions are not inherent in my words, they are inherent in your mind, its is you who is making this wrong based on an assumption about me, rather than critiquing my work.  That not your fault, you dont know because you have not had the right education to spot it.  All you have is "ego" and "dogma" and you see that and miss the objective content.

Would you like to learn?  Check out Swartz, he will tell you that you are missing a huge chunk of the content 

[electroBeam]

@Matthew Lamot What's the difference between you and a fundamentalist, dogmatic muslim? Because both of you are 100% certain that you are right, and both of you are 100% intolerant of other teachings apart from your own. Both of you are 100% unaware that misinterpreting a book written 3000 years ago is possible, and that language is ambiguous and have shortcomings when trying to understand spirituality. Both of you have a purpose to spread your ideas to other people. How am I no less gullible listening to you, than listening to the leader of a fundamentalist muslim?

[Matthew Lamot]

18 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Give us on this forum advice about how to expand our awareness, actual techniques. Not some beliefs about how mighty your crystalized 8 bc book is. Because when I hear beliefs that are backed up by 0 evidence, and sound like they are being told by an old pissed of British man whose soul purpose is to pressure sell his ego, I as many others do, switch off.

If you can't present that, your like every other pretentious, dogmatic jerk on this forum. 

Your words here tell me you know nothing about the dissolution of vasana and karma yoga.  You are trying to hold me accountable for my results.  That is delusion 101.  I am not accountable for the fact you cannot be arsed to read the content of my offering and instead go on a rampage about the adudacity of my dogmaticness.

Im not dogmatic.  Thats why I know the real teachings.  Because I was open minded enuf to seek the real education.  Dogmatic people argue about the audacity of dogma and throw bullshit at forms of their own subconscious when they see a form that might fit their disowned quality of being dogmaitc about being non dogmatic.

This is not fun to watch

That is what you are doing, sorry, but it it.

[Matthew Lamot]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

@Matthew Lamot What's the difference between you and a fundamentalist, dogmatic muslim? Because both of you are 100% certain that you are right, and both of you are 100% intolerant of other teachings apart from your own. Both of you are 100% unaware that misinterpreting a book written 3000 years ago is possible, and that language is ambiguous and have shortcomings when trying to understand spirituality. Both of you have a purpose to spread your ideas to other people. How am I no less gullible listening to you, than listening to the leader of a fundamentalist muslim?

The difference between me and a dogmatic fundamentalist is that dogmatic fundamentalists have beliefs.  Beliefs are an assumption of knowledge.

Now, i have not assumed Adavita Vedanta in its traditional form is knowledge. I KNOW its knowledge, because it works.

Advaita means non dual.  Non duality is the one true statement that is true for everyone.  Everyone is God, whether they know it or not.  So non dual is truth, not orthodox religion.  So any Advaita path from a religion is the truth.  But make sure you get the real Advaita teaching from the religion, otherwise you are on a road to nowhere.

Dont listen to me, I'm saying question the Neo Advaita and New Age teachings.  Look for credible sources that point out the flaws in the New Age thought.  Thats what Im suggesting.  Or dont, I dont care.  Im not attached to the result.

[ttm]

57 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

LOL, I see you want a reaction from that.  I have dropped arguing, thats why im not even going to entertain your need for stimulation.  This is a forum, in real life I could just sit there and communicate Im not playing your games.  But here I need to type words.  

 You're awesome!

[electroBeam]

@Matthew Lamot

You said that my belief is wrong, if you were truely open minded, you would have said that my belief is an opinion, but you didnt. All words are signposts to the real thing. Words arent the truth itself. You cant accurately say that someone's idea is wrong, after an awareness related experience. All words are stories.

I'm willing to explore other teachings, but I'm on a strict no BS diet. And when you say that one POV is more wrong than the other, it shows clearly that you are dogmatic. Ehy would i trust someones teachings if they themselves are dogmatic?

You also fail to give step by step techniques, ways in which to get to enlightenment, you just spout out your POV of what enlightenment is. And how evil ageism is. That isnt helping anyone. Your pretty much saying convert to islam because i have experience that islam works. Christianity is bs. Who would listen to that???

Why should we just trust that you have experience? Anyone can say that. This is how religion is formed, by listening to dogma that people like you present, and then just believing it relentlessly.

[Matthew Lamot]

6 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Matthew Lamot

You said that my belief is wrong, if you were truely open minded, you would have said that my belief is an opinion, but you didnt. All words are signposts to the real thing. Words arent the truth itself. You cant accurately say that someone's idea is wrong, after an awareness related experience. All words are stories.

I'm willing to explore other teachings, but I'm on a strict no BS diet. And when you say that one POV is more wrong than the other, it shows clearly that you are dogmatic. Ehy would i trust someones teachings if they themselves are dogmatic?

You also fail to give step by step techniques, ways in which to get to enlightenment, you just spout out your POV of what enlightenment is. And how evil ageism is. That isnt helping anyone. Your pretty much saying convert to islam because i have experience that islam works. Christianity is bs. Who would listen to that???

Why should we just trust that you have experience? Anyone can say that. This is how religion is formed, by listening to dogma that people like you present, and then just believing it relentlessly.

Well electrobeam.  Again youre assuming that you should listen to me.  Dont trust my experience.  Look at the people who do have experience.  I have posted the links to the real sources and if you investigate rather those you can make your own mind up.

Id rather you didnt believe me.  Id rather you got off your bum and take a look at the link and read it before arguing anymore on here.  I see what youre doing, youre young, and dogmatic, and out to slay the world of all the dogmatic cunts in it lol

And you will practice your dogma of non dogma until im worn out, rather than just simply going to the fucking links and having a quick peek.

How do I know your mind games?  Experience, not belief,  i met a million people like you, all distracting themselves from the real work and trying to hold me accountable for the fact they cant be arsed to take a look at a new source of info.

If you knew karma yoga, which is an etxtremely effective path to enlightenment then you would not even be imagining you can hold me accountable for my results.  Im accountable for my actions, the results belong to the field.  Thats all we can do.

Now, if you want to learn these things go read the links and take your wandering I thought off me and put it on the Self.  

No?  You prefer to come on here talking about ideas you heard at Satsang with Mooji and get pissed off at dogmatic people who can actually point you towards real tools.

Youre a dreamer, but I post responses so I can negate you.  Not because I give a fuck about you, or your liberation.  Someone will read this and say "fuck me, he might have a point".  Those mature and sincere students are few and far between, but they are around.

[Matthew Lamot]

21 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 

You also fail to give step by step techniques, ways in which to get to enlightenment, you just spout out your POV of whatenlightenment is. And how evil ageism is. That isnt helping anyone. Your pretty much saying convert to islam because i have experience that islam works. Christianity is bs. Who would listen to that???

Have you been asleep the last 48 hours?

Ive posted the ultimate guide on Self inquiry (a technique)

Ive given practical advice to someone who is stuck

Ive told you that your teachings are nonsesne

Ive given you links to the teachings and the teachers and the sub culture of real teachers out there.

What more do you want ?

[Matthew Lamot]

37 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 

You said that my belief is wrong, if you were truely open minded, you would have said that my belief is an opinion, but you didnt. All words are signposts to the real thing. Words arent the truth itself. You cant accurately say that someone's idea is wrong, after an awareness related experience. All words are stories.

What does this even mean?  This is not a non dual teaching.  This is a New Age expression of a Samadhi experience that a Neo-Advaita teacher assumed would make a good teaching.

Words and labels have nothing to do with it.  The ego cannot experience enlightenment, but this is wht this teaching is pointing to.  That words have some kind of block to Realizing the Self.

To Realize the Self you must contemplate "words".  The right words.  And you must also put the I thought on the Self.  

Youre speaking about some Buddhist thing that let's the ego have a peek into expanded human consciousness.  This is nothing to do with Advaita.  But you dont know this, because you just blindly follow people on here who parrot this nonsense.

Enlightenment is knowledge.  Not an experience.  You can think and still be enlightened.  You can still use words and be enlightened.  You can still have beliefs and be enlightened.  Because words, beliefs, thoughts are aspects of duality.  Keep them in the non duality aspect of duality.  

Realization is you are not this body and mind.  Throwing out words has nothing to do with it.  It is about liberating consciousness from the binding vasanas.  

This is where your ignorance shows itself unfortunately

(And this is is not personal to you, its about the culture that New Ageism creates)

[Matthew Lamot]

45 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 

I'm willing to explore other teachings, but I'm on a strict no BS diet. And when you say tht one POV is more wrong than the other, it shows clearly that you are dogmatic. 

What does this mean?

Who told you this?  It doesnt even make logical sense.

Youre saying that dogma is wrong religion is wrong.  Yet by saying that you are also sayng you have the right perspective.  So youre lying to yourself and dont know it.

This is not your fault, its because you dont understand the difference between the Self POV and the jivas POV.  

I will repeat, in the relative domain there are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong.  If I want to know non duality then I must reject orthodox thought.  This is obvious, and needed.  

What youre trying to do is say that you have the ultimate perspective because you believe that no perspective is ultimately true,

This is called a perfomative contradiction. It is the disease of the New Age thought.

I hope youre learning something from this

I 

[Matthew Lamot]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

What does this mean?

Who told you this?  It doesnt even make logical sense.

Youre saying that dogma is wrong religion is wrong.  Yet by saying that you are also sayng you have the right perspective.  So youre lying to yourself and dont know it.

This is not your fault, its because you dont understand the difference between the Self POV and the jivas POV.  

I will repeat, in the relative domain there are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong.  If I want to know non duality then I must reject orthodox thought.  This is obvious, and needed.  

What youre trying to do is say that you have the ultimate perspective because you believe that no perspective is ultimately true,

This is called a perfomative contradiction. It is the disease of the New Age thought.

I hope youre learning something from this

I 

Ive just pointed you to a dogmatic false belief you hold.  You ho,d it because you have not thought through your own rational thinking.

This is not your fault.  Because you are a jiva like the rest of us, and you have karama that you need to burn before you can even develop the congizant capacity to recognize your own foolishness.

So, find the correct teaching and you will free yourself from this vasana that binds you to this.

[Matthew Lamot]

8 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I never said you had to love yourself, all im saying is that you shouldn't hate people because of their egoism. When you hate someone, you're implying that you think they shouldn't be there, like you are arrogantly telling god( or universe if you hate that word) that he should not have created that. Well guess what, god, who is more powerful, and almighty than what you will ever be, did put them there, they are in awareness, and if you want to reach high levels of consciousness, you better get on god's page, and accept them as well. 

I'm going to point out another delusion you believe in that has nothing to do with true non dual teaching.  Where this comes from I dont know.  But if you want to truly have a strict no BS policy, you need to get rid of these ideas and look for the true teachings of non duality.

Non duality means "truth".  Its the truth.  This means it is not an "experience" of non duality.  It means weeding out all the lies from the mind which destroys the binding vasanas.  So true non dual teachings ARE the ultimate no bullshit path.  Thats what Advaita means, its literally means NO BULLSHIT!

So when you say that the jiva (relative self) must learn to accept others, this is a fallacy.  It is a fallacy because it is not part of the teaching.  Its true that in reality there is no hate, but you cannot give the POV of the Self over to the Jiva to make a belief out of.  That is not how it works.  How it works is we respect the relative realm and give the jiva Self Inquiry and teachings to Realize the Self.

So all your talk of "God" and loving thy neighbour is not a correct teaching.  Its nothing more than a pious platitude that makes the illusion slightly more palatable.  It aint truth though!

[Matthew Lamot]

8 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Well that's strange, because I haven't read any books about enlightenment, or spoken to anyone about meditation apart from Leo's videos.

So if you never read a book, never experienced nirvikalpa samadhi and take your sources from Leo's videos, then what do you know about enlightenment?

How do you know words and labels and dogma are the antethisis of enlightenment?

Because you took on the belief from Leos videos, and now you believe that what you think is true.

Yet another blinding contradiction.

The thing about you and people like worm is youre too busy swallowing concepts that mean nothing and then arguing with people who dont seem to embody those concepts.

So how is this going to free you from bullshit?  You already swallowed a bullshit teaching, and its CREATED a vasnana about non dogmatism.

See where you guys are going wrong with this?  All youre doing is creating vasanas by assimilating teachings that dont make you enlightened, but only give you tasters.  Tasters that you will chase for the rest of your life.

This is the essence of Satsang with Mooji et all.  It complete nonsense that does not cause liberation, but keeps you in bonadge.

If i was to sit here for the rest of my life and try to dismiss every thought, i would still not become enlightened.  All youre doing there is opening yourself to things that could harm you.  You become open minded and gulliable and take on statements like the one you and worm are making that clearly have no grounding in reality.

This is the problem with New Age "experiential" Satsang.