I Consciousness should know all minds simultaneously

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Halm said:

Then, if all minds exist in my mind, why don't I know them?

You're not getting it!

There are no other minds. You're imagining them.

You might as well be asking, "How come I can't know the mind of my imaginary friend?"

[RedLine]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

All other minds exist in your mind.

 

No.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, RedLine said:

No.

Hehehe, you're just not conscious enough to see it yet.

It makes MASSIVE consciousness to realize that everyone else is a projection of your own mind. You will not reach this level of consciousness via meditation.

You can be awake, but still under the illusion that other minds exist. Because awakening has many degrees.

[Harikrishnan]

6 hours ago, Halm said:

@Harikrishnan

I agree but then you are imagining that you are telling a guy at a forum that he is only imagining this.

There are now “two” imaginations going on simultaneously. Why am I not aware of both?

Yes. I am imagining that, i am telling a guy at a forum that he is only imagining this. My imagination is so good that i created a vedantic guy, who then thinks about other minds, not satisfied with answer,  comes   and ask question on a forum that i created by creating leo. There are no two imaginations going on only mine is happening. ?

Edited August 10, 2020 by Harikrishnan

[Halm]

@Leo Gura

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not getting it!

There are no other minds. You're imagining them.

You might as well be asking, "How come I can't know the mind of my imaginary friend?"

I can see you have not been reading through the thread. We have already gone through that this is all an imagination, and it isn't helpful at my level of understanding. At least it does not clear out this one confusion that is present.

If you really want to give a helping hand here, please try to see where my confusion lies. Take me step by step. Telling a guy; "You're not getting it!" “it's all an imagination” without reading through previous answers seems just pretentious. Would instead love your step by step explanation to get me to the understanding.

[Leo Gura]

@Halm You're not going to get it through explanation. Which is why I don't bother.

There are some things which a human mind cannot understand.

[Corpus]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Halm You're not going to get it through explanation. Which is why I don't bother.

There are some things which a human mind cannot understand.

This thread beautifully highlights the distinction between "idea of teaching" and "ineffective communication". Leo spends much of his time "bothering".

It is a bit like someone saying "Leo, I have no ruler and I need to measure this square box so I can put my Lego pieces away neatly" and being told "The cube root".  

[Vittorio]

40 minutes ago, Halm said:

@Leo Gura

I can see you have not been reading through the thread. We have already gone through that this is all an imagination, and it isn't helpful at my level of understanding. At least it does not clear out this one confusion that is present.

If you really want to give a helping hand here, please try to see where my confusion lies. Take me step by step. Telling a guy; "You're not getting it!" “it's all an imagination” without reading through previous answers seems just pretentious. Would instead love your step by step explanation to get me to the understanding.

You cannot understand it logically. Leo helped you with some answers, but you won't understand them until you realize them by yourself through psychedelics and contemplation. 

PS there are other psychedelics you can try, eg LSD or Nn DMT. There is not only 5-Meo

[Someone here]

@Halm @Halm you are conscious now.. Right?   Right.    You perceive other people and they appear to be having subjective experience of reality but you don't have direct access to their POV from inside..right?  Right.   You are asking if me and them are identical why can't I access their POV from inside?.    I would suggest a new possibility to consider.. What if they don't have an internal subjective experience of their own just like people in your  dreams.. They appear to be self- aware but actually they are just extensions of your own mind.  I'm not saying that is actually what's going on right now.. But just a possibility to consider.. My question to you.. How do you know that that's NOT going on now? .   Another way to put it.. How do you know you are NOT dreaming right now? 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Someone here

[Halm]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Halm You're not going to get it through explanation. Which is why I don't bother.

There are some things which a human mind cannot understand.

@Leo Gura
 

Then start with this; "You're not going to get it through explanation. Which is why I don't bother."

You did bother in the beginning though. You were “explaining” while fully knowing i wouldn't get it through explanation? This is why I say you come off as pretentious.

Would love a detailed explanation coming from you, even if I wouldn't understand it. I'm not expecting one but it would be super interesting to see how you see it. How the one Consciousness can “seem” to split up into many imaginations, with separate experiences/perceptions.

I think you know what I'm pointing at. Maybe it's super ignorant, but It is what it is.

[Halm]

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Halm @Halm you are conscious now.. Right?   Right.    You perceive other people and they appear to be having subjective experience of reality but you don't have direct access to their POV from inside..right?  Right.   You are asking if me and them are identical why can't I access their POV from inside?.    I would suggest a new possibility to consider.. What if they don't have an internal subjective experience of their own just like people in your  dreams.. They appear to be self- aware but actually they are just extensions of your own mind.  I'm not saying that is actually what's going on right now.. But just a possibility to consider.. My question to you.. How do you know that that's NOT going on now? .   Another way to put it.. How do you know you are NOT dreaming right now? 

@Someone here

This is the kind of answer I'm looking for, love it. But i've been through this.

The dream metaphor has very big limits. The other people in a dream at night are not themself the dreamer which I can confirm upon awakening to the “waking state” which I agree with you also is a dream.

This analogy is a bit too much solipsism. The other people in a dream are just “props” of the dreamed world without subjective experience. At least what I can confirm.

In the “waking” dream. You and me. We both have subjective experiences.

[Halm]

@Vittorio

54 minutes ago, Vittorio said:

You cannot understand it logically. Leo helped you with some answers, but you won't understand them until you realize them by yourself through psychedelics and contemplation. 

PS there are other psychedelics you can try, eg LSD or Nn DMT. There is not only 5-Meo

Thanks for replying.

Yes, I said in my post I've been doing psychedelics (didn't tell which ones) though. But I can elaborate; LSD, mushrooms and DMT is what I've been doing. But for sure interested in 5 MeO and Nn DMT.

As to contemplating, I've been doing much (maybe and obviously not enough, haha). I've been studying vedanta for about 7 years which includes a lot of contemplation. That's why I included it in the post as well.

Most of all I love discussing these things. And love seeing other people's conclusions. Many are different, some resonates, some don't.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Halm

[Halm]

@Corpus
 

56 minutes ago, Corpus said:

This thread beautifully highlights the distinction between "idea of teaching" and "ineffective communication". Leo spends much of his time "bothering".

It is a bit like someone saying "Leo, I have no ruler and I need to measure this square box so I can put my Lego pieces away neatly" and being told "The cube root".  

This! Thanks for putting it into words.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Halm said:

@Someone here

The other people in a dream are just “props” of the dreamed world without subjective experience. At least what I can confirm.

In the “waking” dream. You and me. We both have subjective experiences.

Are you in the "waking state" or the "dream state" right now?  And how do you know?  

[allislove]

@Halm

I remember asking the questions on the forum some time ago. In the end, the answers I received were pointing to have a direct realization. At that time, it was not satisfying answers. Now it all makes sense. After the breakthroughs, it is like: "F*ck, what just happened? Nothing  " or "Ufff... it's not possible to explain... it's beyond any explanation". If you genuinely want to know you must investigate by yourself in the direct experience.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Halm said:

You were “explaining” while fully knowing i wouldn't get it through explanation? This is why I say you come off as pretentious.

If you really want to understand, take a psychedelic and contemplate your question.

[Halm]

34 minutes ago, allislove said:

@Halm

I remember asking the questions on the forum some time ago. In the end, the answers I received were pointing to have a direct realization. At that time, it was not satisfying answers. Now it all makes sense. After the breakthroughs, it is like: "F*ck, what just happened? Nothing  " or "Ufff... it's not possible to explain... it's beyond any explanation". If you genuinely want to know you must investigate by yourself in the direct experience.

@allislove

Thanks man, well put. This resonates with me as well

[Halm]

39 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Are you in the "waking state" or the "dream state" right now?  And how do you know?  

@Someone here

Im am in the “waking state dream” right now. How i know? i can't get lucid and start flying here as i can in dreams at night. The waking dream has its own laws, while the “night dream” has its own. That's how i seperate them.

I'm sure you too can see the difference in these two states. You know when you're in the “waking dream state”. (We are in it right now).

It might be hard if you're not lucid to tell if you're in the “night dream state” but nevertheless it's revealed upon “waking up” to the “waking dream”.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Halm said:

I'm sure you too can see the difference in these two states. You know when you're in the “waking dream state”. (We are in it right now).
 

Except that's exactly what I think during my dreams as well.   In my dreams I'm also 100 % sure that It's the waking reality.!, 

It's not so obvious.   Don't you see there is literally no difference between the two states? 

 

5 minutes ago, Halm said:

It might be hard if you're not lucid to tell if you're in the “night dream state” but nevertheless it's revealed upon “waking up” to the “waking dream

Even If we just say we are in the waking state right now.. Now what the heck is the waking state?  What is this waking state?  Where did it come from?  What is it's context?  You could say the context of the dreaming state is the waking state like it is happening inside of it being rendered by the brain or whatever that is... Nice.. But what is the context of the waking state?  What is rendering it?   How do you know that your whole life is NOT one giant ass dream and that you actually are an alien in some alternative 5 dimensional universe and that we all are just figments of your Dream???? 

And just to save time and get to the point.. The answer is YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.  So what does this have to do with your question?   Well you insist that everyone are aware and then you are wondering why can't you access their awareness.  I'm telling you go make sure first that we are aware.. That's the assumption that you need to question first.. Because the reality is as you yourself stated that you don't actually have access to other people's awareness.. That means you don't actually know if they are aware or not. That is what's actually the case not the beliefs and fantasies about "I should have access to other's Awareness because we are all one". You are taking it all backwards. It turns out you dont have access to that nor do you "should". 

[allislove]

@Halm ?