How can psychedelics work...help you?

[Pugfishpanda]

This is my third week popping in and out of this forum and I notice a bit of talk about psychedelics around here.  Lately I have been wondering if I should try mushrooms.  My concern is that from 2009-2018 I struggled with a lot of paranoia and I don’t want to induce that state of mind unprepared.

I was diagnosed bipolar, but most of my close friends feel I was misdiagnosed, and instead thought my issue has more to do schizophrenia. I don’t hear voices, I have not seen things that are not there, but when I get hyper manic I get delusional about my beliefs. Basically in a manic state I start to think I am not safe and I run and hide wherever my intuition takes me.  I get grandiose thoughts and feel extremely connected to the Universe.  

My greatest fear is to be emotionally, and physically tortured by a group of unfeeling, unaware, individuals. From age 0-33 I had normal fears. I was naive, oblivious, and ignorantly tucked safely into my religous beliefs. I then started to interact with people online and that journey changed who I thought I was and what I thought I believe. I had a totaly mental breakdown in 2009. My personality changed from being a bubbly, happy, gabby, unware person (who thought she was ALWAYS safe ) to a very quiet aware person who’d become deeply depressed, afraid, lost, and sad about not feeling safe any longer.

I read a lot of NDE’s to help me find hope again in something that may reflect unconditional Love. It gave me comfort for a couple years. I am now starting to learn about reincarnation and karma. I have read some books from Doloras Cannon, some of  A Course In Miracles, and other books from new age authors. I have no idea what to belief. It’s all very overwhelming. I do know kindness is really important to me. 

For the last year, or so, I have been working on my health, having balance and avoiding my triggers. I’ve been medication-free (Abilify) for six months (yes, my doctor knows). I’ve only had a few minor manias after going through some really stressful circumstances. I mostly avoid drama whenever possible, and I understand how to set healthy boundaries. Anytime I start to feel obsessed over something that is my cue to put it down.

So, for you more experienced psychedlic users out there, based off this short history would trying a psychedelic be a bad idea for me??

And because I accidently pasted this YouTube Vid here and have no idea how to delete it, I hope you enjoy its message if it happens to catch your interest.

 

[Ponder]

Coming from experience, I can confidently say that psychedelics (and mind-altering substances in general) are NOT a good idea for at least some individuals prone to mania and psychosis. I say “at least some” because I don’t want to pretend as if my personal experiences are representative of the entire bipolar population, but as someone who has foolishly triggered a severe manic episode on more than a couple of occasions (due to the reckless mindset of “maybe this time will be different”), my advice would be to tread with caution when it comes to these substances. 
 

I would say if curiosity gets the better of you and you do decide to experiment, the most important thing is to dose low. While the experience may not be as profound as if you took a higher dose, the cost of a manic episode is too dear a price to pay for a more profound experience. 
 

Also, you will need to make sure that any medication you’re on doesn’t have any known adverse reactions to the psychedelic that you plan on taking. I know that you said you’re not currently on any medication, but I’m just giving you this heads up in case you do start taking anything again. An example of a potentially disastrous combination that springs to mind is that of Lithium (a commonly prescribed mood stabilizer) and LSD. This can be life-threatening, and triggering a manic episode would be the last of your worries if you had the misfortune of unwittingly combining the two. 

[Nahm]

@Pugfishpanda

Who would you be without the story of the past? 

What would you worry about, if there is no future?

What would there be, to be afraid of?

[Ponder]

@Nahm

While good questions to contemplate, I don't see how this really applies to op's question. He/she asked if taking a psychedelic is a good idea given a history of mania and psychosis. It's a practical question that warrants, I think, a practical response. Attempting to minimize risk/damage doesn't necessarily stem from fear-based thinking, it is in fact a sign of wisdom. Of course, if risk minimization is overly prioritized at the expense of other important considerations, then something may be amiss, but it's a matter of risk vs reward, and in the case of an already precarious mental state being exposed to powerful and unpredictable chemicals, I think the risk far outweighs the reward. 

[Nahm]

@Ponder

Not sure what you mean. What outcome is being risked? How long do you think psychedelics stay in the body? What is your understanding of what mania & psychosis is, and is that understanding from your direct experience complete? Also, what is your understanding of what fear is, and what role it’s playing here?

[Javfly33]

I'll suggest you start with lsd and start very , very low dose. I think it's more easy to handle and to start in low doses is great to catalyze instropection and healing 

[James123]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Pugfishpanda

Who would you be without the story of the past? 

What would you worry about, if there is no future?

What would there be, to be afraid of?

King answer ?

[Artsu]

It sounds like you have a similar condition to me, but with a later onset.

When were you diagnosed as bipolar?

Probably you should try to overcome your paranoia before you do any deep sea diving.

 

Edit: going back and looking at the post again, i need to change this point.

If you got over paranoia in 2018, after 9 years, then probably you are ready for psychedlics, but go with whether you feel you are ready, not when someone else says.

Paranoia is related to ego death. If you are holding onto your ego this can result in a bad trip. This includes situations where you don't feel safe.

It sounds like you may have shed the ego to a degree where many more basic methods will be less effective than psychedlics.

Btw i am not coming at this as a psychedlic user, but as someone who feels they could handle them well, so pay attention to what psychedlic users say.

You dont need psychedlics to develop, especially given your episodes. I don't use them, but i have used other drugs. I could have developed to this level without any drugs.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Artsu

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, Ponder said:

@Nahm

I'm saying I have direct experience of pyschedelics (on more than one occasion) triggering mania (with psychotic features), so that is the outcome being risked. For me, mania manifests as feelings of indestructibility, grandiosity and extreme impulsiveness, alongside sometimes severe delusions. To name just a few of the situations I've gotten myself into while in this state: I have had a knife pulled on me, almost gotten into multiple fist-fights, driven 180km/h in an 100 zone, driven while heavily under the influence, been reported missing and tracked down by the police, engaged in risky sexual activity, taken and mixed random illicit substances at unknown dosages, spent three years worth of savings within a month. 

Not to mention the stream of BIZARRE social media posts and messages that I sent to my friends (and sometimes people I barely even knew), essentially burning my bridges with almost everyone who I have ever known. Where once I was fairly well-respected as a friendly and intelligent individual, I am now looked at with pity and distrust, and no one wants anything to do with me.

While I have somewhat come to terms with (and accepted) the consequences of my behavior while I was manic, it is undoubtable that mania (at least how it manifests for me) is an incredibly destructive force, and almost any measure (within reason) that can be put in place to prevent this force from re-entering one's life is in some sense justified. Granted, my experience with mania is on the extreme side of the spectrum, but even a milder form of mania is not to be taken lightly. 

If you’re comfortable sharing, what psychedelic & what dose did you take prior to each of those experiences?

Also, I appreciate the sharing, but I was asking what mania & psychosis is more so than what behaviors and actions are attributed to it. 

[Pugfishpanda]

Thank you everyone for your replies.  When I have more time I will come back and respond to you individually. Normally I have a couple hours on friday nights. You all enjoy your week.

[outlandish]

On 8/9/2020 at 1:36 AM, Ponder said:

Coming from experience, I can confidently say that psychedelics (and mind-altering substances in general) are NOT a good idea for at least some individuals prone to mania and psychosis. I say “at least some” because I don’t want to pretend as if my personal experiences are representative of the entire bipolar population, but as someone who has foolishly triggered a severe manic episode on more than a couple of occasions (due to the reckless mindset of “maybe this time will be different”), my advice would be to tread with caution when it comes to these substances. 
 

I would say if curiosity gets the better of you and you do decide to experiment, the most important thing is to dose low. While the experience may not be as profound as if you took a higher dose, the cost of a manic episode is too dear a price to pay for a more profound experience. 
 

Also, you will need to make sure that any medication you’re on doesn’t have any known adverse reactions to the psychedelic that you plan on taking. I know that you said you’re not currently on any medication, but I’m just giving you this heads up in case you do start taking anything again. An example of a potentially disastrous combination that springs to mind is that of Lithium (a commonly prescribed mood stabilizer) and LSD. This can be life-threatening, and triggering a manic episode would be the last of your worries if you had the misfortune of unwittingly combining the two. 

I have very little personal experience with schizophrenia and psychosis, but I believe this is very good advice. It resonates completely with my thoughts on the matter. Tread with strong caution, and start very, very low, if at all. 

I think you don't need to play around with psychedelics at all, you are already a bit trippy without psychedelics. OTOH, there's a small possibility that you can work extremely carefully with them to self-improve. Personally, I think the risk outweighs the potential reward, and I'm someone who is extremely pro-psychedelic, fwiw.

If you do decide to proceed with caution, you should loop someone you trust very well into your plans, be it your doctor, a close family member or close friend. You should have someone keeping an eye on you - even if they are not directly supervising your trip, just keeping an eye on you in life as you experiment.

Follow your guts and heart, and use your head.

[Pugfishpanda]

This week I researched the topic and found this wonderul YouTube Vid that I feel is very informitive and answered my concerns. I enjoyed reading all of your opinions and questions. I have chosen not to introduce psychedelics into my life at this time, but will keep it on a back burner and wait until I have a couple more years of stabilty before I jump down that rabbit hole.