When we die will there be peace? Will there be love?

[Leilani]

I'm terrified @Leo GuraGura 

When we die and merge will there be love? Will there be peace? Will I be afraid of being alone when I merge with all possibilities? Leo are you afraid to become that infinity? Please help me. I'm a mom to a 3 year old. I want to function. I can deal with it all if I know that in the end it will be pleasant. If in the end it will be love and feel good. Please only Leo respond please help me. 

[Leilani]

And I understand that is beyond dualities of good or bad I mean will it feel blissful and loving? Will I be terrified once fully merged? How do I function in this world? Should I just ignore my daughter? Is it ok to love her and have fun with her?

[BjarkeT]

I believe when we die it’s just pure nothingness because our consciousness is gone so in a sense it’s very peaceful like the time before we where born and when we are gone the people we love who are still there are the one who remember us so there is still love also.

Of course it’s ok to love your daughter and have fun with her you shouldn’t have to doubt that.

Edited August 6, 2020 by BjarkeT

[Leilani]

@BjarkeT

But does this go against @Leo Gura teachings?

[Artsu]

After death, there is heaven and hell. You might go to hell, i don't know, but it is temporary.

There is the spiritual heavens, and the celestial heavens which are higher. To get to the celestial heavens you need divine love. This can be received after death.

Of course, you can and should love your daughter. Why wouldn't you?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Artsu

[BjarkeT]

@Leilani I don’t know all of Leo’s teachings so I can’t say for sure but I don’t believe it’s a part of his teachings (that you should have to doubt your feelings for your daughter) If believing in something or following in something just make it worse for you is it really worth believing in? I would say listen what you think is the right thing and follow that. Not what you feel forced too.

Edited August 6, 2020 by BjarkeT

[Leilani]

Freaking out

[Artsu]

7 minutes ago, Leilani said:

Freaking out

One day you, and everyone else, will be in heaven.

Live according to love at all moments.

I don't mean to constantly monitor yourself. But try to grow in love.

Do you pray?

[Leo Gura]

@Leilani Our teachings here are not belief based.

If you want to know, you must become conscious of what Love is, and what death is, directly, for yourself.

Believing me is counter-productive.

Psychedelics help a lot in becoming conscious.

[Raze]

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Raze

[Leilani]

@Leo GuraGura I have done plenty of psychedelics. I have had similar realizations. All is one everything is God but I'm asking you specifically if you are afraid of dying. I know that love is accepting everything as a part of yourself that is why I was able to love the people who have raped me. Even when I was a kid I understood that people act out of ignorance and fear when hurting others. I'm asking specifically about merging with the all. Was it a good experience? Was it pleasant for you? 

[Leo Gura]

@Leilani Death is Infinite Love.

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

But what does it look like? If it's just infinite love without anything else in it and you're not even aware of yourself then that's basically what death is.  How is that a good outcome for anyone?

It looks like what would happen if you take the entire universe and shrink it back down to a singularity prior to the Big Bang. This singularity is pure Infinity. Pure Oneness. Pure Love. Pure Peace. Heaven.

Heaven is not a place full of delicious food, piles of gold, or hot sex. Heaven is the absolute lack of distinction between any two things. Complete indifference. Complete Self-Reunion.

It is not good or positive in the traditional human sense because it tranacends goodness to Absolute Good. Which is Nothing.

The ego hates this idea, but fortunately death will kill the ego so it won't be a problem because there will be no one to care.

Death is only bad as long as you are alive. Once you're dead, death is great.

Death is just an illusion. Once you die you don't regret it because regret requires being alive. Death feels like liberation. Liberation from limitation, as you become unlimited.

[Zigzag Idiot]

 @Leo Gura I haven't had an experience that has answered it for me. Do you allow for the possibility that it could be different for others. Maybe a real negative person who stays somewhat earthbound in the lower astral realms ?  Or the idea that we aren't born with a completed soul and that we have to learn lessons work on ourselves to gain immortality?

[Leilani]

@Leo GuraGura

Well I have died and fear would have been impossible in that state. I remember realizing that fear is a human emotion and the opposite of love and God. Psychedelics you can still experience the fear as you are attached to your human body somewhat. I had the same realizations you did at 17 but slowly tried to deny them not because they scared me but because everyone else thought I was crazy. I gave up. Life is meant to be lived and experienced this is where we come to know ourselves or create ourselves. 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

 @Leo Gura I haven't had an experience that has answered it for me. Do you allow for the possibility that it could be different for others. Maybe a real negative person who stays somewhat earthbound in the lower astral realms ?  Or the idea that we aren't born with a completed soul and that we have to learn lessons work on ourselves to gain immortality?

There is a problem of defining terms here. You can certainly dream other dreams after this dream ends, which might include lower or higher realms. But I wouldn't call that death proper.

Death proper would be Absolute Infinity. It's what happens when all dreaming stops.

You're gonna need a really powerful psychedelic to glimpse Absolute Infinity.

[Leilani]

This is an NDE on the NDERF website 

Stephen T NDE

Home

Classification NDE

1308 Stephen T NDE 3359

Experience Description

1. Surfing incident

2. Caught in a trough under water in huge surf.

3. Panic knowing I am going to drown.

4. Realized I had to give up, could not hold breath any longer.

5. Sudden calmness and resignation; loss track of body.

6. Clear and graphic life review as if certain events were cataloged.

7. Visualized a large green blue circle with a feeling of depth but did not look like tunnel.

8. Suddenly found myself in a large hall with a stone bath being washed by humanoid aliens; very peaceful (this was certainly a subjective illusion).

9. Sudden transformation into a realm of timeless Absolute Beauty, Absolute Love and Absolute Infinity. The radiance was literally unbearable.

10. Absolute forgiveness, non-judgment, non-duality, timeless, no blame or retribution, no sin karma and no reincarnation. No God as there was no subject or object of attention I AM That.

11. Beyond science, religion, spirituality, new age phantasmagoria. This is the most real insight of my whole life and clearly remains with me after thirty years.

In my hippy years experimented with drugs e.g. acid however nothing, but nothing, compares with this insight. Also came across a similar state during meditation. Somewhere in this process, I became conscious of the fact that I must return to the world and play out my allotted role. This really pissed me off. As I crawled up the beach, I really didn't want to be here and in many ways have just been waiting for this lot to finish.

12. Theoretical implications: a) Absolute Infinity is a fact; George Cantors set theory provides sound theoretical evidence of the mathematical context of infinity. (We do not create infinity it is literally thrust upon us and is therefore absolutely necessary.) Hugh Everett's many worlds interpretation of particle wave duality; Max Tegmark's theoretical application to infinite universes. See also John Barrow 'Pi in the Sky' and Rudy Rucker's 'Infinity and Mind'. Evolution is asymmetrical, that is the billion to one symmetry violation at the origins (matter/antimatter) of the universe supervenes through complexification and self-organization onto Darwinian selection as a bias for pleasure over pain.

Evolution is not value neutral. Given infinite universes non-denumerable infinity tells us that every moment must exist infinitely for all possible sum over histories (Richard Feynman) for all possible universes. (Will be pushing for space here.) Given infinite universes and infinite sentient civilizations infinite civilizations will survive for vast time scales eventually resolving into Absolute Infinity and Absolute Love. This state of beingness is a permanent aspect of every part of existence.

Science has become shackled to skepticism and the narrow constraints of a very primitive epoch in the scheme of biological and silicon based evolution. Ray Kurweil demonstrates the capacity of potentiation in his demonstration of cosmological, computational and exponential technological growth. We will eventually drop the distinction between artificial and carbon based intelligence for new cohesive constructs far beyond our current capacity to visualize. As cells in our bodies are not conscious of our bodies, our self-conscious minds are not cognizant of the Absolute because we are bound by cognitive duality. Consciousness is dualistic and narrative based whereas awareness is timeless and immediate. Yet for anything to exist, whether subjective or objective, they must inevitably be absolute necessary aspects of a perfect existence. One also has to take into account the profound paradox of time (quantum block time) relativistic twin paradox, matter antimatter time vector reversal etc. we really don't know much.

The axis of existence proceeds from the Pervasive Ground (unified field) through Manifest Material Reality and onto Infinite Potentiality. Existence is an Infinite Web of context and though the local universe has some 10 to the 26 bits of information they overlap and furthermore are connected non-locally. Existence is not constructed of finite locatable things it is a nonlinear process of textural flow and integration. Lot more I could add however gives the gist of what I am on about. Hid in a corner all these years however when saw this site decided to have a stab at explaining my NDE. I have written extensively but not published. Who, after all is interested in radical and revisionary ideas. After all they forced Thomas Kuhn into a corner. Our current epoch is incommensurable with a civilization two hundred two thousand, two million or a billion years older. Plenty more where this came from. It's time to wake up and go beyond the magic and mythology of religion and the primitive egocentrism of science.

Background Information:
 

Gender: Male
 

Date NDE Occurred: 1967

NDE Elements:
 

At the time of your experience, was there an associated life-threatening event? Yes Accident On a surfing trip - near drowning Life threatening event, but not clinical death Nearly drowned. Coughing and spluttering I somehow managed to get to shore and crawl out of the water having given up all hope as I was clearly convinced that I was drowning. I truly thought I was a finished.
 

How do you consider the content of your experience? Wonderful
 

Did you feel separated from your body? Yes I lost awareness of my body
 

How did your highest level of consciousness and alertness during the experience compare to your normal everyday consciousness and alertness? More consciousness and alertness than normal As above.
 

At what time during the experience were you at your highest level of consciousness and alertness? When I literally died to my old self and was wrapped in Absolute Love and Absolute Forgiveness. I do not look through my eyes anymore what sees is beyond my poor confused self-conscious mind. The looking through is not mine it is boundless non-dual timeless and perfect. See ya later God.
 

Were your thoughts speeded up? Incredibly fast
 

Did time seem to speed up or slow down? Everything seemed to be happening at once; or time stopped or lost all meaning Timeless. It was shock to emerge from immediate awareness to consciousness. I most certainly did not die and here of course lie the rub. However it is relatively easy to demonstrate that every moment always exists for all probable and possible moments infinitely therefore whatever is flowing through this lot is not the surface structure we identify with. Kant phenomena, noumenon or more to the point Nagajuna's such-ness, nothingness and non-duality.
 

Were your senses more vivid than usual? Incredibly more vivid
 

Please compare your vision during the experience to your everyday vision that you had immediately prior to the time of the experience. Though there were intense and awe inspiring feelings something much deeper was operating and has remained to this day. No person can have ownership and no religion lay claim to Absolute Love. The body just didn't warrant attention.
 

Please compare your hearing during the experience to your everyday hearing that you had immediately prior to the time of the experience. It was not like hearing but somehow directly intuiting without the necessity for language. The narrative comes afterwards and by heavens one must be absolutely vigilant not to pollute the direct experience.
 

Did you seem to be aware of things going on elsewhere? Yes, and the facts have been checked out
 

Did you pass into or through a tunnel? Uncertain Saw a blue green circle but did not pass through a tunnel.
 

Did you see any beings in your experience? I actually saw them
 

Did you encounter or become aware of any deceased (or alive) beings? Yes In the early stages I was bathed by some aliens beings. However, when I had the insight into Absolute Love everything with shape and form disappeared and had absolutely no relevance.
 

The experience included: Void
 

The experience included: Light
 

Did you see, or feel surrounded by, a brilliant light? A light clearly of mystical or other-worldly origin
 

Did you see an unearthly light? Yes Everything was light however it was not white, yellow, or black, it was pure radiance and for a timeless moment I was that radiance.
 

Did you seem to enter some other, unearthly world? A clearly mystical or unearthly realm It is strange to look back and realize that the effects of the event continue to change my life and conception of existence on regular basis. When I write a book or article and finish it it is as if, even with all the research, I actually did nothing. It has taken to the middle years of my life to fully integrate the intellectual and experiential in a rigorous manner. Something unspoken operates beyond the self-conscious mind. Sounds whaky I know but I gotta another set of eyes. This is where the old narrative goes bottom up. Working in welfare sort of reflects a doing because it has to be done. Choiceless Freedom. so many damn dimensions and textures its downright spooky.
 

The experience included: Strong emotional tone
 

What emotions did you feel during the experience? Love, Love, Love, Love, Love, Joy, Joy, Joy, Joy, Bliss, Bliss, Bliss, Bliss. Absolute Forgiveness, total equity and complete union.
 

Did you have a feeling of peace or pleasantness? Incredible peace or pleasantness
 

Did you have a feeling of joy? incredible joy
 

Did you feel a sense of harmony or unity with the universe? I felt united or one with the world
 

The experience included: Special Knowledge
 

Did you suddenly seem to understand everything? Everything about the universe
 

The experience included: Life review
 

Did scenes from your past come back to you? My past flashed before me, out of my control I don't think I learned anything from the experience what did happen was that I realized what I was doing, and still am doing nothing, even though I have to continue on with the trials and tribulations of life like everyone else. Absolute Love takes no prisoners you either imbibe non-judgment, and absolute forgiveness with a still mind or carry on with the useless narrative of self-justification. It is not to be learned it is to be lived.
 

Did scenes from the future come to you? Scenes from the world's future All events exist right here and now (quantum mechanics and time) however insight steps into the timeless occasion of immediate perfection while witnessing the temporal flow of relative material reality. One could not remain in awareness because self was, and is still, irrevocably tied to material reality. To a non-dualist there is no spirit or soul because insight is subject less, objectless beginning-less and endless. At death my relative absence will be my absolute presence Nisargadatta Maharaj.
 

Did you come to a border or point of no return? I came to a barrier that I was not permitted to cross; or was sent back against my will

God, Spiritual and Religion:
 

What was your religion prior to your experience? Liberal none
 

Have your religious practices changed since your experience? No Religion just does not cut the mustard. Absolute Love can have no relationship with evil, devil, hell, purgatory, sin, karma, retribution, or any type of judgment blame and retribution. When they drop their absurd beliefs and magical mythical ranting then their ideologies will become redundant. By this stage, religions will be left with a whole lot of empty book covers. Absolute Love cannot be possessed or turned to any religious or political purpose. Either we love or we don't love easy peasy. Then we can party and just learn to love and care for each other on a truly equitable basis.
 

What is your religion now? Liberal none
 

Did you have a change in your values and beliefs because of your experience? No Religion just does not cut the mustard. Absolute Love can have no relationship with evil, devil, hell, purgatory, sin, karma, retribution, or any type of judgment blame and retribution. When they drop their absurd beliefs and magical mythical ranting then their ideologies will become redundant. By this stage, religions will be left with a whole lot of empty book covers. Absolute Love cannot be possessed or turned to any religious or political purpose. Either we love or we don't love easy peasy. Then we can party and just learn to love and care for each other on a truly equitable basis.
 

The experience included: Presence of unearthly beings
 

Did you seem to encounter a mystical being or presence, or hear an unidentifiable voice? I encountered a definite being, or a voice clearly of mystical or unearthly origin
 

Did you see deceased or religious spirits? I actually saw them

Concerning our Earthly lives other than Religion:
 

During your experience, did you gain special knowledge or information about your purpose? Yes In fact this is the real bummer. When one steps outside of religion and yet admires science but sees beyond its limitations one's circle of friends becomes decidedly small. Universities philosophy and psychology departments are definitely not welcoming. Non-dual insight becomes a socially isolating. Recently tied to converse with atheists. Boy what a bunch of fundamentalists they have turned out to be. If you blow your own bags you are arrogant and misinformed if you shut up you're an introvert. Judgment, judgment everywhere judgment. Something is certainly doing I do not know what.
 

Have your relationships changed specifically because of your experience? Yes After such a profound insight one wants to be a do-gooder and save the world however reality soon kicks in. It took a certain amount of time to realize that it is how I act in the world and what I do that assists in making the world a better place not how I attempt to change others based upon some conceptual prejudice. Reality certainly is not fair so we just have to learn to live with it and let evolution take its requisite path.

After the NDE:
 

Was the experience difficult to express in words? Yes I have spent my life working as a counselor and program manager. Studied many religious, philosophical and science based thinkers. Only two areas come to mind. The non-dualist Advaita Vedantist teacher Nisragdatta Maharaj (who rejected all religious dogma) and the approach taken by Alan Watts in his book 'The Way of Zen'. I completely reject hell, purgatory, sin, evil, damnation, judgment, blame, retribution, karma and reincarnation. Essentially the dualistic contradictory notion of God is to be voided. Absolute Infinity and Absolute Love are completely non-dual and non-judgmental.

There was also a Polish Jew on a television program about NDE's who experienced Absolute Love unreservedly forgiving Nazi perpetrators. I just cried at the recognition of this wonderful man who intuited Absolute Love. I have also written extensively on Insight and Infinity however have not bothered to publish. Paradoxically, one soon learns that dogma free Absolute Forgiveness and Absolute Love either scares the hell out of many dogma bound individuals or becomes victim to scientific skepticism, scientific determinism and logical empiricism. So one soon learns to keep one's mouth shut. In my work as a counselor, I regularly use my understanding when I feel it is appropriate to assist in relieving a client's sense of hopelessness and despair. A substantial number of my clients either consider suicide or have made various attempts. We desperately need a contemporary meta-theory that is neither beholding to religion or science however it must fit within the purview of current scientific understanding. I am yet to find a satisfactory outlet for these ideas.
 

Do you have any psychic, non-ordinary or other special gifts after your experience that you did not have before the experience? No My ability to network ideas seemed to take off.
 

Are there one or several parts of your experience that are especially meaningful or significant to you? Nothing in my life has had the significance of the NDE and some meditation experiences that happened later. No doubt, no fear of death and a total comprehension of non-judgment. No one creates their realities life is conditioned by hereditary and socialized contingencies and if you are born in the first world then your lottery tickets certainly came up. The relative world demands a certain amount of legal accountability and responsibility and we need suitable constraints. However, the deep ocean of the Absolute is absolutely forgiving and absolutely non-judgmental. Remove judgment and reduce inner turmoil resulting in peace and equanimity.
 

Have you ever shared this experience with others? Yes Be very, very careful the world is full of skeptics. Luckily my partner also had a NDE and out of the body experience so we at least have each other. Very useful when dealing with those clients who feel hopelessness and despair. I have worked with youth, drug addicts, families, mental health clients, domestic violence victims, service veterans and have found a deep need for a revisionary understanding of our place in existence beyond the magical and mythological assertions of religions and the self-imposed nihilism of scientific empiricism. Though I have not published this is the area I would most certainly like to move into.
 

Did you have any knowledge of near death experience (NDE) prior to your experience? Uncertain I was a pretty spacey kid living in a fantasy world and always intuited the vastness of things. So I was very curious from an early age. Had some vague knowledge of NDE but nothing concrete.
 

What did you believe about the reality of your experience shortly (days to weeks) after it happened? Experience was definitely real There are no illusions or delusion in reality for if there were contingent things then they could not necessarily occur. Nothing has changed. We continually confuse description with explanation however as Kurt Godel and recently Gregory Chaitin have demonstrated incompleteness is implicit within reality. We require an infinite hierarchy of descriptive and explanatory belts to explain reality and this is impossible. Insight looks back and witnesses without the duality of mental narrative. All things are accessible but not through language or symbolic representation. As there is only the emptiness and fullness of the Absolute we are all of Absolute Infinity and Absolute Love. In insight there are no degrees of separation and therefore no soul no spirit, no God, no heaven, no Hell for we are all THAT.
 

What do you believe about the reality of your experience now? Experience was definitely real It makes me laugh that people have the gall to label events objectively real or subjectively illusory when to happen they must be real within their own context. It is not the veracity of the occurrence rather it is how that event is interpreted. If there is an infinite network of interpretations then, just maybe, watching and witnessing will generate a non-verbal understanding of our place in existence free from the labels real or illusory. Don't tell me the Absolute is not real because nothing can exist if it is not Absolutely Necessary. Everything subjective and objective is therefore necessary and given vast time scales and potentialities the texture of the web of context is indeed infinite thus we have Absolute Infinity. A word of caution. The classical argument against infinity is that it is a subjective human construct. Well here we go Mr. smarty pants philosopher infinity is thrust upon us through associational contexts between mind and word yet it is somehow an artifact of human reason. Get over it. Max Tegmark (Scientific American) does a brilliant job of refuting this erroneous argument.
 

At any time in your life, has anything ever reproduced any part of the experience? Yes Other than drug free meditation and arts based experience nothing has come near to my NDE. I did have a meditation experience, which was similarly profound and even more enduring. The beauty of this event is that it was not induced by NDE or any form of drug stimulus. Tried Acid, marijuana and eckies in my hippy days however they are just very poor substitutes. In some ways having worked in drug and alcohol I can see what people are looking for unfortunately it isn't going to happen.
 

 

[Leilani]

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1stephen_t_nde.html

This nde is wonderful at explaining what death is like. He also gives great answers @Leo Gura check this out! I bet this will ring some bells I know it but me at my core. 

 

Love to you all!!!

[zeroISinfinity]

@Zigzag IdiotYou can enter Absolute state with proper  meditation too. Don't beleive me ask @Inliytened1.

I do agree it's very rare but if you meditate properly there is a chance for that. 

For sure not by flipping hands. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leilani Please for the love of your daughter just have fun with her! Death may be Absolute Infinity but sometimes you just gotta enjoy the simple things in life!