Stuck at meditation

[Andrey_U]

Hello everyone! I recently started my journey to enlightenment, practicing meditation few times a day. I believe that I already have some progress, but I feel I kind of stuck. Due my only one month of experience of awareness I'm not confident if I'm doing my meditations right, and due corona-virus situation it's hard to just go to local temple or meditation center to ask someone. Leo makes such a great and phenomenal thing that I don't even have a words to describe this, but at the same time I feel like everyone needs a personal Guru or "next level" friend who can guide you and answer dummy questions. 

I would be so thankful if someone more experienced can guide me. I searched youtube and Internet for different meditation practices, but most of them works with "energy" and other non rational stuff like imagining some kind of sphere of yellow energy passing your body through certain places and etc.

When I enter meditation state guided by Leo, and when I finally feel my real Me (I), I can feel some kind of unite with surroundings. Is that it? Do I just have to stay in this state and enjoy seeing my real self or there is another step forward? Or if I do another meditation for focus and concentration, I can focus on certain feeling like pressure of my fingers for less then a minute which brings me to this awareness state, do I just have to keep focusing as much as I can or there is other places where my mind(awareness) can travel and explore? How can you describe your state as experienced meditator? What you feel?

Thank you for any answers, links or book/articles suggestions!

Peace!

[allislove]

@Meta-Man love Francis Lucille 

[Marten]

@Andrey_U  Relax. You have doubts and worry thoughts. This is completely normal. Sounds like you're doing very well. Let go. Melt into Love. Just be. Keep it simple. As you keep going you'll naturally move from head to heart. There will be less worry and thoughts. This means you will more and more intuit things, like what you want and what to do. Or rather it will just happen by itself. Let it unfold. It's a beautiful process.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Marten

[Andrey_U]

@Marten @allislove @Meta-Man Thank you all, gentlemens, you just dissolved my worries. Yesterday, actually, I found focus meditation most efficient, somehow it develops specific calm, people acceptance, and what Wim Hof(Iceman) says - I feel that every cell in my body opening to get a new knowledge.  I only felt it during shrooms trip(But it was much powerful) 

I still can't believe this is happening to me, and sometimes I worry that it might be just a self-hypnosis.

[Marten]

@Andrey_U  Great! Yes exactly, this is all just self-hypnosis... but not the way you think!

[cobalto]

What about psichodelics?

[rav]

On 8/5/2020 at 5:50 PM, Andrey_U said:

 I believe that I already have some progress

There is no progress.

When I started meditation, I was in the same mind set you are right now. I was thinking like: "Man, if I meditate, my life's gonna get better, I'll get superpowers and everything will fall into place".

BUT

There is no BUT.

See, there is a common "mistake", people commit when committing to meditation.

So, you're coming from self-improvement. That means, you're willing to change your life to the better and improve yourself.

But what is that?

That's a notion of your self to change the trajectory of your life. Meaning: You still want something. You want to improve, adapt, turn around.

But wanting something is thinking.

And what does meditation tell you? Not to think.

So when you're practicing meditation in order to progress, you're not meditating.

When you stop thinking, you cannot want anything, thus you cannot progress any further.

So stop progressing. Stop wanting. Just meditate, be in the moment and stop expecting something.

When you stop expecting anything, you lose the notion of progress.

And then you can be.

Just be.

[Andrey_U]

@rav I like your point of view. But how you going to become enlightened if you just float down the stream with no consciousness? I'm not talking about progress literally, like if I was pumping my muscles to be able lift more weight tomorrow or run further, but more like sphere, which increase it's surface as it become bigger so it has larger area for perception or more deep and precise perception. For instance you can feel your heart beat or even manage it's rate. 

On the background of my mind I understand that you are right, many times I caught my mind flouncing if I don't reach meditative state in a certain time so it starts trying different approaches within few minutes to finally reach this state. Maybe that's why it takes about 10 (subjective) minutes to just relax and feel the flow.

Can you describe your meditative process in details? After you sat down and reached calm, where you direct your mind then?

Edited August 7, 2020 by Andrey_U

[Andrey_U]

@Marten Are you talking about imaginary world that our sub-consciousness build around us to protect? 

[Andrey_U]

@cobalto Thank you for asking, I had a great experience these weekends. I asked people in Trip-Report thread, but it seems to be not very populated these days, so I want to ask the same question here if anybody know the answer. Sorry for copy-paste, but it's hard to describe in other words:

Hello everyone, please help me identify my state under magic shrooms trip.

That how it was: me and my friends (3 of us and small bag of magic)  went camping with other people who roughly believe in alcohol intoxication (if you know what I meant) But we knew, despite our controversial point of view with those people, this is gonna work. So, the other day we consumed little magic and started having wonderful chatting with people who was consuming alcohol, funny thing that 3 of us set tents aside of main group, so we were kind of separate camp, but by the end of the evening the rest of the group (about 20 people) gathered around our small camp fire, though they had their own huge camp fire with lots of food, tables, alcohol (To make this clear, we are not this type of persons who can attract people by anything in a regular time at all). I believe that everyone who passed our separate camp by, was attracted by compassion, acceptance, sincere listening summoned in us by "magic".

First it happen when I suddenly decided to meditate near campfire between those people who were chatting in small groups, trying to feel all of their emotions that they were exposing. After half of the minute the greatest joy/happiness (I'm not sure if these are the right words for this feeling) started filling my head so my face got the widest smile I ever had and tears start running, so I had to hide my face in palms so no one bother me with questions what is happening with me. And then I had giant explode in my head, it was kind of orgasm, but not the one you have with sex, more like psychological, along with strongest hallucinations I ever had. It was short, maybe less then a minute, so I just came back to my friends and continued conversation when it was over. No one even admit that. I had 1 more "orgasm" later, same strength, but the most significant was the last one: closer to noon time I left our campfire taking little walk to a river, I sat down the rock and started meditating but with eyes open, now imagine - fool moon gives enough light to see everything, calm wide river, and black stripe of pine forest on other bank below the shining moon. It came up immediately after I focused on sounds of nature and the whole picture, the world, the whole existence started breaking on small particles looked like snowflakes that begun unfold infinitely, then I've got one more psychological orgasm along with strong understanding that the "God" is in every particle of our existence (I'm atheist by the way) and that I thought about "God" too literally before, so this is not a guy on the sky with white beard watching us, but just a different, unknown matter/instance/substance, I don't know. It was so powerful! I'll remember it my whole life.

Please help me to understand what is that, how it called, what does it meant?

Each of us took less then a 2 gram of shrooms, after lunch (this was a big mistake) and I smoked small joint after 2 hours.

Thanks to everyone, peace!

[black_math49]

A very helpful tip would be to realize that whenever you feel like you are doing it wrong or some chatter happens. Notice how the thoughts in your head split themselves in two, the one trying to meditate, and the meditation, both are thoughts, the experiencer, and the experience of peace or calmness. The goal of meditation is to see the pattern of thought(There is no observer, only observation happening within consciousness) . how you create your ego. after that you realize that there is an awareness of the process of thought creating an image of you. then explore that awareness without the help of the knowledge you accumulated. you will notice that you become very present during that process. You will experience much greater peace and it will last longer each time you enter that state of awareness.

And remember whatever the Technique is, it is always directing you to realize the pattern in which the illusory self gets created by thought. whether it is breathing, noting, etc. 

 

[Waken]

You don't have to do meditation, there are so many ways you can have a go at this. There are literally thousands of methods that all work fine. It's not just the technique your using, but also how you feel while doing it. Just try things out that speak to you. If you find something else on the go that seems more exciting, go do that. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Waken

[Andrey_U]

@Waken Can you bring at least a few that work better for you? Since I'm a very beginner, I don't know much about everything that is available, but I'm fully open for new ideas.

Thank you.

[Andrey_U]

@black_math49 Very interesting thought, observe how most of the thoughts gets born. It's very hard to shut up inside voice, it always talking or somehow bothering. Any advise how to make it quite?

Thank you.

[Waken]

1 hour ago, Andrey_U said:

@Waken Can you bring at least a few that work better for you? Since I'm a very beginner, I don't know much about everything that is available, but I'm fully open for new ideas.

Thank you.

Sure, I'll mention some things that I've done myself, found useful and what gives you a bit of a sense of different approaches. There's so much more, of course.
- Sri Kaleshwar is quite a G and has brought some good systems where you chant mantras. The 5 elements system is likely the best system of his to start with. You can learn it for free here: https://learn.divinelineage.org/ . You could try out the earth 1 channel. You might find it's quite powerful and pleasant to do. The more you do it the more you'll charge it and the more powerful it gets. I got to know Sri Kaleshwars systems about 8/9 months ago and still do them daily, sometimes hours of it a day. If you're serious you could get an initiation and it would boost your practice a little (I could give it). Even without it, it's still very powerful and a very holistic approach.

- A suggestion on how to quiet the voice in the mind (I see your question above). Just follow this question 'What am I thinking about right now?'. This curious introspection to your thoughts is really good in quieting down thought. It's good, but if you're only going to try out one thing and could use some excitement, then better to start out with another one from the list.

- go to http://liberationunleashed.com/ and ask for a guide that helps you to see there isn't a self/person. It's quite a good start to have on this journey. You'll experience one or more shifts while going through this, which is and nice and corrects your understanding of how things work a bit. Afterwards you could use the same approach to explore deeper things.

- Holotropic breathwork and also holographic breathwork.

- https://www.ascensionlibrary.org/. This approach makes use of light language. You listen to encoded audio files. It's very powerful though even though it can look very new agey to people. There are some things you could listen to for free, others are paid. Some programs I downloaded so you could get those.

- here something different again: http://iawaketechnologies.com/ you could use it while meditating. Lot's of the programs can be torrented. To spice things up even further, you could also add a little bit of mushrooms to this:D

- Isha foundation. Some good yoga and meditation things there.

Whatever you end up doing, I hope you come out healed and get to know higher and higher dimensions of life/yourself  

Edited August 7, 2020 by Waken

[black_math49]

@Andrey_U The voice in your head is an illusion, The sound of it is real, but the content or the meaning of the voice is an illusion, it is just noise, even the speaker behind the voice is illusory, he is a concept. You can inquire into that and see it for yourself.

That is why it annoys you and disrupts your peace. because it is an illusion.

Realize that the source of the voice in the head and the content of it is itself from thought, Thought being created. Splitting itself in two, The thinker and the thought, The meditator and the meditation, The speaker and the voice, me and the voice, All those are just more thoughts.

For example. let's say you are trying to meditate now. You sit down, You hear a voice saying "now should I keep my awareness in my body or should I focus on the breath?". Gently recognize this pattern is a very subtle thought in action. there is still me inside

Another example is:( Ok, I will watch my thoughts and recognize them, Ok that is a thought, that is another thought). this pattern is very tricky too. Gently recognize it and just become aware of it. Become aware of how the "you" are trying to watch the thought.

You will feel like you are trapped in an endless strange loop of observing yourself, That is when you know it is working! 

You will become like a blank paper, The only voice of this blank paper is silence. Understand deeply that the voice in the head, thoughts, sensations, all of those are not you, these are modulations emerging from this blank paper.

Your only and true goal here is to understand the mechanism of it, Don't try to quiet it down, Don't try to have a peaceful state because remember all those are thoughts, thoughts trying to become permanently happy and peaceful. All techniques boil down to this understanding. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marten]

@Andrey_U No.

[rav]

On 8/7/2020 at 1:29 PM, Andrey_U said:

Can you describe your meditative process in details?

Sure. I sit down, close my eyes and simply don't do anything until the alarm on my phone takes me back to ordinary consciousness.

See, there is a problem here, let me try to explain:

When you grow up and learn things, how do you learn these things? Most of the time, via language. Your parents and people near to you tell you how to label things, actions, behaviors, situations, etc. Seldom, you learn things by direct experience, for example when you touch something hot and feel a certain sensation afterwards in let's say your hands. But even then, people around you teach you via language what that sensation is called, how to avoid "pain" (<--the word they've taught you) in the future, etc.

Have you noticed, that all thinking is language and the other way round? Yes?

Ok, so what are we doing here right now in this forum? Conversing via language. True that, right?

But then, we are telling each other not to think when meditating. True?

So now you come along and ask for advice concerning your meditation practice. All good, nothing wrong with that for sure.

Can you guess the problem?

Look: What you expect, what you want out of your meditation practice, that's within language, right?

You said it yourself:

On 8/7/2020 at 1:29 PM, Andrey_U said:

but more like sphere, which increase it's surface as it become bigger so it has larger area for perception or more deep and precise perception.

What you are doing here is as follows: You have a concept of how meditation should go and now you ask how to realize your particular concept.

There is no concept.

Because concepts, what are those? Language. Thinking.

As long as you think you're meditating, you don't meditate, alright? Can you see your conundrum?

Let me try to paraphrase: Let's say, there is an "enlightened" master. You go and meet him, let's say in Tibet, and he sits down with you in order to talk. He is aware of consciousness beyond language/thinking. So you ask: Master, what do I have to do in order to reach your state of "enlightenment"?

Ok, what happens now? The instance, this master is going to give you an answer to your question, his experience is translated into language, then transported into your mind and adapted by your mind to form some kind of idea.

See, what happens here? The experience of this master is bogged down and forced into language. So is there any of the original experience left after this process of translation? Any?

So when you fly home from Tibet, you carry this idea with you and later on you try to realize it by meditating. And then you get stuck. Why?

Because you're trying to enforce an idea (which is language/thinking) by using a practice that is not capable of progress (also language/thinking).

And what am I doing right here, right now? I am trying to convey something outside of language to you via language.

You see this can't work?

Contemplate this.

And then, the best thing I can say here is: When you sit down to meditate, tell yourself "there is no progress, there is no good or bad meditation session, there is no language in meditation".

It's a hard pill to swallow, but the only way to directly experience consciousness outside of language is to meditate every day, observing your mind's chatter rather than thinking yourself, be patient and don't judge your meditation sessions afterwards. There is no quality to meditation. Meditation just is what it is.

So you were specifically asking how to expand your sphere of awareness during meditation. You can't.

Because expanding is doing and the idea behind this action is language.

All of the possible "meditation states" are already there. You can't practise to "reach" them.

You can only access them. And you will.

IF you stop thinking, speaking, having expectations, having ideas or doing something.

I'm sorry to tell you again: Just be. Everything else will come to you by itself.

[Nahm]

@rav

Yes indeed. ???

[Andrey_U]

@Waken Thank you so much! Such a great resources, I would probable spend no less then a year by my own to find these places. 

By the way, Sadhguru was my first inspirer who motivated me to start discovering myself, I think he sometimes gets bored of the primitive questions people ask on his lectures, from how he is laughing if question was too ordinary.

About holotropic breathwork: I recently started practicing  Wim Hof approach to that, which also brought me to Tummo meditation that I'm gonna try very soon

I like how everything started unwrapping layer by layer, and when expecting to find the answer for one of you questions, you just get more questions and more work to do, Sometimes it confuses, but in the good way when you realize, how I could be happy without knowing all of these.