Serious Question About Spiral Dynamics

[Mert]

After watching Leo's Spiral Dynamics - Stage Red video some of the questions I've had the back of my mind re-emerged. So, my question is: what does it mean to evolve in the spiral. For example, if you are Stage Green, does this mean that you have more or less integrated the "lower" stages? Is this a necessity? Or do you have nothing to do with lower stages like Stage Red and you can't even relate with a Stage Red person. If you ask me the ideal situation would be the former one. Otherwise wouldn't it be so easy to move up to at least green without doing almost no consciousness work? You just born in the 60's to good parents and ta-daa you are Green. So, for example, we generally use hippie stereotype as an example for Green. But I would say %99,9 of the people that we call hippies are brainwashed into a specific culture and did 0 hours of integration of Red for example. They would say Stage Red is "evil" and Stage Blue is "fascists" etc. To me this is a child-like approach which creates a huge shadow. In fact, I would say the manipulations and strategies they use reminds me of a sneakier stage red. And that's okay but are people conscious of that? If you ask me, If you claim to be Stage Turquoise or Yellow you have to have the Stage Red right inside you. And you have to be able to use it as a tool wisely, whenever it is needed. You can sit all that smoke some weed and sing kumbaya but what are you going to do if there is a zombie apocalypse or any kind of serious situation? A classical so-called Stage Green hippie would cry like a little bitch first. then his shadows would take him over and he would say "fuck friends and family, I need shelter and food, and I'm gonna rape my female friends when I am horny because there is no law now. I am the law." Or he would just panic and die unskillfully. I think you have to be able to activate stages that are "lower" than your current stage at any moment in order to really grow. I'm curious what do you guys think?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Mert said:

You just born in the 60's to good parents and ta-daa you are Green.

No. If only it were so easy.

In practice it's much harder and messier.

Firstly, there's no guarantee that just being born to good hippie parents will make you Green. You could still turn out a Red rebellious teen who does heroin.

Secondly, even if the kid has an easy path to Green due to his comfy environment and education, he will still not have fully integrated the lower stages. He will be a weak, flimsy Green. A lot of people in their 20's today are Green on the surface, but at their core they are hollow. They haven't developed the assertiveness and courage of Red, nor the discipline and work ethic of Blue, nor the success of Orange. This is very typical. It's a very flimsy Green. Such a kid will believe in universal equality but can't even muster the balls to approach a hot girl nor has the work ethic to hold down a job and pay his bills because his hippie parents paid for everything.

In practice you need years of experience working through each stage. You might need to do it backwards in the sense that you start off as a hollow Green, then you go back and master Blue, then Orange, then Red, and then back to Green to fully appreciate Green and become rock solid Green, then Yellow, and beyond. Each of these phases might take you 3-5 years of active work.

[Mert]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Secondly, even if the kid has an easy path to Green due to his comfy environment and education, he will still not have fully integrated the lower stages. He will be a weak, flimsy Green. A lot of people in their 20's today are Green on the surface, but at their core they are hollow. They haven't developed the assertiveness and courage of Red, nor the discipline and work ethic of Blue, nor the success of Orange. This is very typical. It's a very flimsy Green. Such a kid will believe in universal equality but can't even muster the balls to approach a hot girl nor has the work ethic to hold down a job and pay his bills because his hippie parents paid for everything.

This was exactly what I was getting to. Thank you for clearing that up. I completely agree. I can go with calling it hollow Green or any kind of stage. Or I wouldn't even call them Green because of these reasons you have pointed out, but it gets into semantics. To give yourself as an example, some people can watch your channel and agree with you all day, thinking that they are yellow/turquoise but they don't have any practical skills, no job, no high-quality relationship etc. So this amazing content becomes mental masturbation and an ego boost for a lot of people. You had to master Orange to some degree to create a business like this. Without those skills and hard work, there wouldn't be any channel or forum like this. Same is true for all stages. People take this for granted. They just like to think about how spiritual they are. I have to admit that I have fallen into the same trap myself. Watching videos like "how to get shit done" or "no growth possible without training"  is always a good slap in the face.

[Leo Gura]

@Mert There is enormous depth to each stage. Few people fully master each one. Most people have very lopsided development.

And don't forget, it's not just stages. There are also developmental lines! So you have to master both stages and lines!

See video: Spiral Dynamics - Important Insights

[Matt23]

@Leo Gura Specific question for you.

Would you consider feeling unsafe and insecure (in the sense of the world is scary) and feeling isolated and alone and lacking belonging and connection (or a "tribe") something of a stage Purple issue?  If so, how would you recommend overcoming this?  

This is one of the reasons why I wanted to see the stage Purple video.  I don't know if I still have some stage Purple issues, or if what I'm experiencing isn't something covered in spiral dynamics or/and is a finer distinction Spiral Dynamics doesn't cover.  

What are some key things Purple needs to overcome in order to grow into Red?  Especially in the social domain.

Cheers

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

@Leo Gura Specific question for you.

Would you consider feeling unsafe and insecure (in the sense of the world is scary) and feeling isolated and alone and lacking belonging and connection (or a "tribe") something of a stage Purple issue?  If so, how would you recommend overcoming this?  

This is one of the reasons why I wanted to see the stage Purple video.  I don't know if I still have some stage Purple issues, or if what I'm experiencing isn't something covered in spiral dynamics or/and is a finer distinction Spiral Dynamics doesn't cover.  

What are some key things Purple needs to overcome in order to grow into Red?  Especially in the social domain.

I'm not sure.

I wouldn't try to boil everything down to the Spiral.

Just work on those issues independently.

[Matt23]

Cheers.