Ego MUST be affected by enlightenment!

[beastcookie]

Hello again, 

New enlightenment question. 

I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions on what happens to the ego during/after the awakening process. A lot of enlightened teachers say that there are no such thing as a "perfect personality" so basically you can be an enlightened wreck. Addicted, broke, fat, whatever. 

I have thought about this a lot, and I just can't believe that you can be enlightened with a poor functioning ego. It just doesn't make sense. I have been working a lot with the 12 steg program (AA/NA etc) and recovery from addiction (drugs, alcohol, food, sugar, porn, shopping, gaming) is essential on the 12-step path to awakening. When I meet what I perceive as very spiritually conscious people they are always fit and not addicted to anything. They earn good money, live their purpose and are genuinley happy, nice, successful etc. It goes hand in hand. I also think ailments are a manifestation from something not right in the psyche. 

I'm thinking about this because I was given a high score on my LOC (Level of Consciousness ref. Ramaji 1000) but struggle with feelings of inferiority, low self worth and a feeling of being flawed. I just think this is not very enlightened mind. 

Any thoughts?  

[gettoefl]

enlightenment is to lose every label about yourself

 

[beastcookie]

10 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

enlightenment is to lose every label about yourself

 

Getting rid of labels enables success imo. 

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, beastcookie said:

Getting rid of labels enables success imo. 

4 minutes ago, beastcookie said:

Getting rid of labels enables success imo. 

its the only success there is

[Gesundheit]

@beastcookie you set the standards for what enlightenment entails.

[WaveInTheOcean]

what happens -- at "final" enlightenment -- is that the ego surrenders so much to the truth of Infinite Love that it sees its own unreality. From there on freedom and peace awaits.

[Seraphim]

Those spiritual, balanced people without addictions may have a lower level of consciousness than you. Their ego gives them control, they can control their desires and addictions, you can do that too until you reach 1000. But the root cause of addictions still exist; the ego and addiction to the mind, so at 1000 you can truly begin to free yourself from all inner distortions! It happens naturally without any control.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Seraphim

[ArchangelG]

3 hours ago, beastcookie said:

Hello again, 

New enlightenment question. 

I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions on what happens to the ego during/after the awakening process. A lot of enlightened teachers say that there are no such thing as a "perfect personality" so basically you can be an enlightened wreck. Addicted, broke, fat, whatever. 

I have thought about this a lot, and I just can't believe that you can be enlightened with a poor functioning ego. It just doesn't make sense. I have been working a lot with the 12 steg program (AA/NA etc) and recovery from addiction (drugs, alcohol, food, sugar, porn, shopping, gaming) is essential on the 12-step path to awakening. When I meet what I perceive as very spiritually conscious people they are always fit and not addicted to anything. They earn good money, live their purpose and are genuinley happy, nice, successful etc. It goes hand in hand. I also think ailments are a manifestation from something not right in the psyche. 

I'm thinking about this because I was given a high score on my LOC (Level of Consciousness ref. Ramaji 1000) but struggle with feelings of inferiority, low self worth and a feeling of being flawed. I just think this is not very enlightened mind. 

Any thoughts?  

Letting go of any ideals of what an enlightened being "should" be or look like would be probably be useful.

 

[beastcookie]

1 hour ago, Seraphim said:

Those spiritual, balanced people without addictions may have a lower level of consciousness than you. Their ego gives them control, they can control their desires and addictions, you can do that too until you reach 1000. But the root cause of addictions still exist; the ego and addiction to the mind, so at 1000 you can truly begin to free yourself from all inner distortions! It happens naturally without any control.

so why are some LOC1000 gurus fat? I find that incomprehensible. Goes against loving what is and being intensely present. 

[Seraphim]

10 minutes ago, beastcookie said:

so why are some LOC1000 gurus fat? I find that incomprehensible. Goes against loving what is and being intensely present. 

Being at 1000 feels so good, and the feeling of not being the body is even stronger than in the 600s, some people stop caring about spiritual growth at that level, they let their inner distortions remain because everything feels perfect anyway, they just live their life and enjoy, and because they are so fearless they don't mind if the body gets fat and unhealthy Some yogis say that 1000 (kundalini awakes and rises to the crown) is just the beginning stage, the next step, complete kundalini transformation, takes years and it's not for everyone. 

[iamthat]

6 hours ago, beastcookie said:

I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions on what happens to the ego during/after the awakening process. A lot of enlightened teachers say that there are no such thing as a "perfect personality" so basically you can be an enlightened wreck. Addicted, broke, fat, whatever.

I have thought about this a lot, and I just can't believe that you can be enlightened with a poor functioning ego. It just doesn't make sense. I have been working a lot with the 12 steg program (AA/NA etc) and recovery from addiction (drugs, alcohol, food, sugar, porn, shopping, gaming) is essential on the 12-step path to awakening. When I meet what I perceive as very spiritually conscious people they are always fit and not addicted to anything. They earn good money, live their purpose and are genuinley happy, nice, successful etc. It goes hand in hand. I also think ailments are a manifestation from something not right in the psyche.

I'm thinking about this because I was given a high score on my LOC (Level of Consciousness ref. Ramaji 1000) but struggle with feelings of inferiority, low self worth and a feeling of being flawed. I just think this is not very enlightened mind. 

Any thoughts?  

 

The term enlightened is becoming almost meaningless through overuse - who can say who is actually enlightened, and what does enlightenment really mean?

But awakening to the omnipresent unchanging Self and realising that there is no separate identity does not change the nature of the body or the emotions or the mind. They are still as they were before awakening.

Would you expect "enlightenment" to magically transform your physical body into the ideal shape in perfect health? Of course not. So why should enlightenment suddenly transform us on an emotional or mental level? There is no such thing as an enlightened mind.

Whatever personality limitations we have before enlightenment remain present after enlightenment. What does change is that we recognise that we are not the personality with all its limitations. Personality is just a collection of habitual behaviour patterns, it is not an identity.

We can choose to work on these personality limitations or we can choose not to. It makes no difference to our state of Being. But the more we let go of personality patterns such as feelings of inferiority or feeling flawed, the easier it is to function more effectively on this physical plane.

Peace

Edited August 3, 2020 by iamthat
typo

[iamthat]

2 hours ago, beastcookie said:

so why are some LOC1000 gurus fat? I find that incomprehensible. Goes against loving what is and being intensely present. 

I really don't know how valid these LOC figures are.

But if you find it incomprehensible that a guru might be fat then surely that too is going against loving what is.

Peace

[Artsu]

I'm a smoker and a drinker and a gambler. I don't have a job or a partner.

Not sure what is meant by addiction. I don't think i am addicted to those things. I enjoy them. They help me evolve, they help me cope. I might end up with a full time job, i might not. I might end up married, i might not. I might stop smoking etc i might not.

@beastcookie it's important not to fool yourself about your nature, or about things in general. You identify it as inferiority, but it could be a manifestation of pride (an error, which is going against the truth).

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, iamthat said:

 

The term enlightened is becoming almost meaningless through overuse - who can say who is actually enlightened, and what does enlightenment really mean?

But awakening to the omnipresent unchanging Self and realising that there is no separate identity does not change the nature of the body or the emotions or the mind. They are still as they were before awakening.

Would you expect "enlightenment" to magically transform your physical body into the ideal shape in perfect health? Of course not. So why should enlightenment suddenly transform us on an emotional or mental level? There is no such thing as an enlightened mind.

Whatever personality limitations we have before enlightenment remain present after enlightenment. What does change is that we recognise that we are not the personality with all its limitations. Personality is just a collection of habitual behaviour patterns, it is not an identity.

We can choose to work on these personality limitations or we can choose not to. It makes no difference to our state of Being. But the more we let go of personality patterns such as feelings of inferiority or feeling flawed, the easier it is to function more effectively on this physical plane.

Peace

?

[VeganAwake]

The sense of self is a tough cookie to crumble... it cannot conceive of its own unreality.

So it goes on doing what the sense of self does best... keep itself alive.

The higher self, pure consciousness, awareness, true self, God, Infinity, The I AM... any kind of identity to keep itself from complete annihilation.

Regardless of a belief about what this is... the trees are still treeing, the birds are still birding, the clouds are still clouding, the grass is still grassing.

It simply doesn't matter because it already is what it is...

Listen to Nike: ....Just do it!!

Just do life.... stop asking why it's too short. ❤

 

 

 

[Gili Trawangan]

10 hours ago, iamthat said:

 

The term enlightened is becoming almost meaningless through overuse - who can say who is actually enlightened, and what does enlightenment really mean?

But awakening to the omnipresent unchanging Self and realising that there is no separate identity does not change the nature of the body or the emotions or the mind. They are still as they were before awakening.

Would you expect "enlightenment" to magically transform your physical body into the ideal shape in perfect health? Of course not. So why should enlightenment suddenly transform us on an emotional or mental level? There is no such thing as an enlightened mind.

Whatever personality limitations we have before enlightenment remain present after enlightenment. What does change is that we recognise that we are not the personality with all its limitations. Personality is just a collection of habitual behaviour patterns, it is not an identity.

We can choose to work on these personality limitations or we can choose not to. It makes no difference to our state of Being. But the more we let go of personality patterns such as feelings of inferiority or feeling flawed, the easier it is to function more effectively on this physical plane.

Peace

This.

[nistake]

My 2 cents:

You probably don't live in a cave in complete solitude, so you need a certain sense of self to function in this modern world. You interact with other people, you're faced with choices every day, you work on your purpose, you work on your physical health, etc.

You can be enlightened, but a healthy, well-rounded sense of self doesn't hurt. A great example is Shinzen Young. Even after his enlightenment, he sought professional help from a therapist, because he recognized that enlightenment was not the answer for every personal issue of his.

[beastcookie]

14 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Being at 1000 feels so good, and the feeling of not being the body is even stronger than in the 600s, some people stop caring about spiritual growth at that level, they let their inner distortions remain because everything feels perfect anyway, they just live their life and enjoy, and because they are so fearless they don't mind if the body gets fat and unhealthy Some yogis say that 1000 (kundalini awakes and rises to the crown) is just the beginning stage, the next step, complete kundalini transformation, takes years and it's not for everyone. 

I can accept the fact that being in a state of bliss creates a type of neglect for the body, and that they just do what they enjoy doing and if they get fat so be it. I can see that depending on the type of ego/personality fixations, enlightenment will generate different results.

I'm curious to know what happens after LOC1000 with fully awakened kundalini. I tend to believe people like Elon Musk are highly awake, he must be in the 700's at least. 

 

[allislove]

@beastcookie I give you LOC1000 now ?

Just continue the spiritual practices for letting the beliefs go. Beliefs that tell you that you don't have a max score, that you need to achieve something, that you are not complete now.

[Nahm]

@beastcookie

Everything you’re saying makes sense when you acknowledge it’s just thoughts. That none of it has any truth to it, including your first thought, that there are people, let alone the next thought, that there are enlightened people. Not sure you’re appreciating the profundity of what you’re talking about yet. Judgement is so subtle & sneaky. Some use models wrapped around the idea.