Peter Ralston on Psychedelics in more detail

[Space]

The reality is that a full God Infinity breakthrough with 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT is infinitely beyond any insight that can be had through Ralston's contemplation. It's just so fucking radical I seriously doubt it is possible to attain without 5-MeO-DMT. It's very clear he doesn't understand this, let alone experienced it himself. However, of course Ralston's contemplations lead to permanent realization, where as the 5-MeO peak state is only semi-temporary - I think this is largely why he doesn't see their value.

Ralston says he's done his fair share, but I bet he hasn't done 30mg of 5-Meo-DMT. He's probably just done some mild mushroom or LSD trips, which quite frankly is not sufficient. 5-MeO-DMT is far beyond the capabilities of mushrooms and LSD in my opinion. 

[Fran11]

You won't get permanent enlightenment (meaning non dual conciousness) without day to day and moment to moment concentration upon mindfulness and constant noticing and rejacting the identification with the "I thought". Both of these must be done continously even while doing daily life activities. It's not as exciting as doing psychedelics and having peak expericences but there's no way around it.

Psychedelics can help you realize the truth but you have to align with it yourself. They won't do the hard work for you no matter how much of them you do.

[Spiral Wizard]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I suspect he actually knows but he's just playing coy.

Why?

[Haumea2018]

No, psychedelics can't help you become fully enlightened - perhaps partially in some cases (and in many cases not at all.)  They are wonderful at breaking through blocks, though.

The entire concept betrays a lack of understanding of surrender.  Thinking that some means or method will enlighten you is entirely a conceit of the ego.  The conscious mind doesn't even understand its permanent, irrevocable annihilation.  Whatever temporary experience you get is simply not the same.  It takes quite a long time for most people to relax into being in a way that clears up any confusion about The Self.

As I've said before, the person's own willingness to surrender, which in essence means willingness to die as the "old self" despite the massive dread and fear such an experience entails is absolutely essential.  Psychedelics don't take care of that for you because unconsciously the ego knows it's "coming back" -- it's not threatened to the fullest.

People who don't realize the demands, the price to pay for enlightenment get right up to the ledge and refuse to jump.   The fear is too much.  They retreat to ego illusions that "this one weird trick" will get it done for them, and get hostile to suggestions that it's not.

But it's not the weird trick.  It's not the "most efficient method."  People have gotten enlightened through many different methods.  The common denominator is the willingness to get to the ledge AND jump.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Space said:

He's probably just done some mild mushroom or LSD trips

He told me that he did 1000ug of LSD once. He couldn't tell if it was day or night outside. LOL

Me thinks he did too much

I think the problem with Ralston is that he's just not wired like a normal human. He's autistic like. Maybe he's incapable of feeling the Love. Although I doubt it. My money's on him playing coy.

5 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Why?

Because he's a clever fuck and he likes to play Zen games.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

The common denominator is the willingness to get to the ledge AND jump.

Which can be done with or without a psychedelic.

[Haumea2018]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Which can be done with or without a psychedelic.

Hypothetically, yes; but if the beliefs I mentioned above are there (that "this one weird trick" is what's going to do it for me) that will block it.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

Hypothetically, yes; but if the beliefs I mentioned above are there (that "this one weird trick" is what's going to do it for me) that will block it.

After you do enough psychedelics, the distinction between being on psychedelics or off them starts to dissolve away.

That itself is a duality.

You also have to consider that people like Ralston were likely born with an abnormally high amount of natural psychedelic neurotransmitters.

Not everyone has the same neurotransmitters in their brain just like how not everyone has the same level of testosterone. It's foolish to expect that you can out-lift someone with a natural testosterone level of 2000.

Yogis and sages OBVIOUSLY have higher levels of the right neurotransmitters. This is clear in them from birth. They didn't work for it. They got it as a gift.

I know people who were basically enlightened from childhood or were born with siddhis.

You are NEVER going to naturally match the consciousness states of someone like Sadhguru. He's a genetic freak. Some piddly yoga practice will NOT be enough to match his level.

[Fran11]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

After you do enough psychedelics, the distinction between being on psychedelics or off them starts to dissolve away.

That itself is a duality.

You also have to consider that people like Ralston were likely born with an abnormally high amount of natural psychedelic neurotransmitters.

Not everyone has the same neurotransmitters in their brain just like how not everyone has the same level of testosterone. It's foolish to expect that you can out-lift someone with a natural testosterone level of 2000.

Yogis and sages OBVIOUSLY have higher level of the right neurotransmitters. This is clear in them from birth. They didn't work for it. They got it as a gift.

 

Which doesn't mean you will get the high levels of those neurotransmitters just bu doing psychedelics, it takes continuous work, there's no way around it.

Also I've noticed that some psychonauts tend to not understand the psychological nature of ego, maybe mecause if you have never had an awakening just using meditation of self inquiry you don't become so aware of the nature of the I thought (ego sense) and how it prevents you to experiencing the non dual conciounsess you have all the time as it really is.

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

After you do enough psychedelics, the distinction between being on psychedelics or off them starts to dissolve away.

That itself is a duality.

 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Which doesn't mean you will get the high levels of those neurotransmitters just bu doing psychedelics, it takes continuous work, there's no way around it.

Of course there are no guarantees. But every bit helps when you're stuck.

Yes, it's work either way.

Like I said, you CAN have bone-dry sex. It will work. But is it really the way to go?

[Haumea2018]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You also have to consider that people like Ralston were likely born with an abnormally high amount of natural psychedelic neurotransmitters.

Leo, for someone like yourself this is awfully reductive materialist thinking. 

Wouldn't years of spiritual practice alter the neurochemistry?

[Fran11]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course there are no guarantees. But every bit helps when you're stuck.

Of couse, I am pro psychedelics, but I think that the fact that you still need to do almost constant consiousness work is not emphatized enough by some psychonauts.

At least for me, continuously noticing and rejecting identification with the ego has grown my baseline conciousness much more than peak experiences, and has facilitated the latter.

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

After you do enough psychedelics, the distinction between being on psychedelics or off them starts to dissolve away.

That itself is a duality.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Fran11

[Gesundheit]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not a matter of who's more enlightened.

Consciousness has many facets and degrees. There is really no such thing as "enlightenment" as a singular thing. There are thousands of various kinds of awakened states.

There is such a thing as enlightenment. It's God-realization, Oneness, or Infinity. Any other realization is a bonus. In this sense, science is one field of enlightenment as it explores the "material" nature of God. And yes, material is a facet of God in the same way love is.

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Or if he does, he denies it publicly. I suspect he actually knows but he's just playing coy.

I can't know but I don't think he's playing coy. He's most likely being honest about his understanding.

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have already solved it. I know that I AM LOVE.

Do you?

Love as a facet of Infinity, yes.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

Leo, for someone like yourself this is awfully reductive materialist thinking. 

What's truly reductive is pretending that normies have the same capabilities as professional gurus, sages, and yogis.

That's like a pro NBA player telling a normie: "Slam dunks are easy! Stop being a reductive materialist about height."

The irony is that while gurus and yogis are deeply conscious, they are not conscious of their own material privileges.

If Sadhguru or Ralston were born clinically retarded, they would not be as conscious as they are today. And to deny this is absurd.

Quote

Wouldn't years of spiritual practice alter the neurochemistry?

A bit

But not as much as taking 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Love as a facet of Infinity, yes.

Love IS Infinity.

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Love IS Infinity.

Every facet is infinite, in a sense, because God is one. Still, there is one larger Infinity that is Absolute Infinity that is Oneness, or God.

You once said in one of your videos that Infinity has infinite sizes. The example was from mathematics where between 0.1 and 0.2 is a larger infinity than the one between 0.01 and 0.02

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Every facet is infinite, in a sense, because God is one. Still, there is one larger Infinity that is Absolute Infinity that is Oneness, or God.

You once said in one of your videos that Infinity has infinite sizes. The example was from mathematics where between 0.1 and 0.2 is a larger infinity than the one between 0.01 and 0.02

You are still making distinctions. Every distinction you make is an outflow of creative imagination from the Godhead, and it's all Love.

If you make distinctions, they are all Love.

If you make no distinctions, that is Love.

Love is so ONE that to even call it Love or One is already to say too much, to make it two. And yet, two is also Love! So it's Love no matter what you do. If you deny Love, that is Love. If you accept Love, that is Love. If you kill a basket of puppies, that is Love.

[Corpus]

1 hour ago, Space said:

The reality is that a full God Infinity breakthrough with 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT is infinitely beyond any insight that can be had through Ralston's contemplation. It's just so fucking radical I seriously doubt it is possible to attain without 5-MeO-DMT. It's very clear he doesn't understand this, let alone experienced it himself. However, of course Ralston's contemplations lead to permanent realization, where as the 5-MeO peak state is only semi-temporary - I think this is largely why he doesn't see their value.

Ralston says he's done his fair share, but I bet he hasn't done 30mg of 5-Meo-DMT. He's probably just done some mild mushroom or LSD trips, which quite frankly is not sufficient. 5-MeO-DMT is far beyond the capabilities of mushrooms and LSD in my opinion. 

The question posed to Peter Ralston lumped "psychedelics" all together as a monolithic entity; 5 MeO DMT exceeds the others by some margin (except perhaps vaporised DMT whilst fully MAO-A inhibited) and the 1960s did not have this as an accessible option. I agree with Ralston that the psychedelics he used cannot do the job; we live in a different time where 5 MeO is being used as a specific tool to achieve an outcome and as this is uncharted territory, conclusions will only be reached after more observational evidence is gathered, especially regarding the persistence of any realizations it affords.  

[nistake]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I think the problem with Ralston is that he's just not wired like a normal human. He's autistic like. Maybe he's incapable of feeling the Love. Although I doubt it. My money's on him playing coy.

Because he's a clever fuck and he likes to play Zen games.

It'd be hilarious if actually that was the case  

[Gesundheit]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are still making distinctions. Every distinction you make is an outflow of creative imagination from the Godhead, and it's all Love.

If you make distinctions, they are all Love.

If you make no distinctions, that is Love.

Love is so ONE that to even call it Love or One is already to say too much, to make it two. And yet, two is also Love! So it's Love no matter what you do. If you deny Love, that is Love. If you accept Love, that is Love. If you kill a basket of puppies, that is Love.

I agree with that but I don't think the term Love is appropriate. To me it seems like a colored perception of what actually is in its raw form, like adding a filter from which you then perceive reality. That filter is relative to your state of consciousness and it changes accordingly. And so it's not absolute. The raw reality is, and its qualities are infinite, and love is a quality.

If I stop making distinctions, reality will still be reality, only I will not be able to distinguish the filters from the raw beingness anymore, which could be anything, including, but not only Love. For example, if I stop making distinctions in a low state of consciousness, I will experience hell. But I won't be able to realize that it's not true because I'm too identified with the state because I am not making distinctions. As soon as I start making distinctions again, I will start seeing beyond the appearance (hellish filter) and then recognize Truth.