How to stop demonizing stage orange

[soos_mite_ah]

@Forestluv Like any other stage there is both positives and negatives.  I know I have some hang ups but I'm trying my best to be more open towards aspects of stage orange I find myself more reluctant towards. I hope that I am working towards a more balanced worldview and I will say everyone's input in this thread is helping immensely. 

In regards to competition, I am open to it and I think it can be very good for the overall economy so that companies don't stagnate and settle. I guess my main thing is that unbridled capitalism reduces competition and starts moving towards monopolies and oligopolies. There are laws such as the  Sherman Anti-Trust Act  which does regulate enterprises but i think there needs to be an extension to the conversation since a lot has changed since 1890.  But a lot like that era in American history, there was also a lot of issues in regards to wealth inequality at the time as well.  

I don't know whether this would fall under discernment or judgement but that's like the main thing that comes to mind.

But then again, maybe orange needs to exhaust itself to the point where they see they are going against their own values. In oranges case, maybe its for them to see that some of their ideas are counter productive and impedes on their wealth, prosperity, and competition. It's just a thought. 

[JosephKnecht]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Also he became a figure head of people getting extremely wealthy while not considering their own employees.

If Bezos wasn't considerate of his employes, the employes will definitely consider leaving. If the employees could find better employment elsewhere, they will definitely consider leaving Bezos for another company. 

But I agree, billionaires have to be more considerate of their employees since its all the work of the employees that made their billions. 

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

On average, because of the tendency to hoard wealth, I believe that the government is better at spending the money because they actually put it to use.

The government doesn't have money to spend. The government takes money in taxes and then spends it. 

Imagine that the government said tomorrow that you don't have to pay taxes to the government anymore, but you must donate the taxed amount to charity or people of your choice. Do you think that people would be better at redistributing their wealth rather than sending it to the government? 

To get out of orange, try to imagine different scenarios of why people in orange act the way they do. Try to see reality from their perspective.

When you understand their perspective without demonizing them, you are out of orange. Then you make a green/yellow lemonade.  

[Haumea2018]

6 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I can't help but feel that much of the reason why many people are stuck at stage red and blue is because of a lack of proper resources due to poor distribution systemically and therefore they use harsh means to meet their survival needs.

In order to have wealth to redistribute, you must first have wealth creation.  So you need Orange. You can't regulate and tax the shit out of enterprising Orange types to "take care of everyone" because you're killing incentives for growth.   

Now, the other issue is that you will have Orange types driving down the cost of labor through immigration, offshoring, temporary visas, etc.  Unfortunately Green is too feely to understand economics and immigration is good to them for sentimental reasons.  So the problem with Orange is in concert with the problem with Green.  The best you can do for people right now is to tighten labor markets so that more people get good paying jobs.  Also, you need good schools so people are educated to take those jobs.  This isn't always a resources problem - sometimes it's a systemic problem.  If a system doesn't produce results while more and more money is pumped into it, it must be reformed or a better alternative offered.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Haumea2018

[soos_mite_ah]

@JosephKnecht  I think it would be a good idea for people to have more of a say iin regards to where their tax dollars go. I think I remember reading somewhere of an idea where there is a portion of your taxes and you get to chose which department it goes to. And i mean, some governments, like the U.S. (I know I keep bringing them up, I live there and I have more context to speak on it) do have money to spend, they just put a large chunk of it towards things like the military. It is definitely necessary for security concerns don't get me wrong but budgeting  and priorities should be looked at in a more critical lens. But that's a whole separate topic. 

Also, I really like the idea of imagining different scenarios. I think on top of that it's good to recognize their interests as well or by directly getting involved in these types of positions (I believe someone on this thread mentioned starting a business). I know that has definitely helped me not demonize orange as much as I did in the past. After I started taking classes for my business degrees, a lot of things started to make more sense and didn't seem as malicious. It wasn't good or bad, it just was and in a way that helped me see how the concept/ theory in question would be applicable in which contexts. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Forestluv

In regards to competition, I am open to it and I think it can be very good for the overall economy so that companies don't stagnate and settle. I guess my main thing is that unbridled capitalism reduces competition and starts moving towards monopolies and oligopolies.

Yes. There is also the competition between regulators and corporations. Right now, it isn’t a fair fight. Corporations have far too much power and government regulators cannot compete in regulating them. This is obvious with things like the housing crisis and opioid crisis. In my POV, we need a much bigger government to be able to compete with corporations.

Another example of this is with health care. Health insurance corporations want a “public option” that is “competitive”, yet it isn’t competitive. The health insurance companies will keep the low risk healthy people with the highest profit margin and unload all the older people and those with conditions onto the public option. Of course this isn’t an even playing field. The health insurance companies will appear to be the “winners”.

[lmfao]

Pathological blue is deeply sick. Since I was raised Muslim I have seen a lot of stage blue dysfunction. And that makes me appreciative of orange. 

But this issue you're having, not uncommon and is understandable. I have similar issues with green sometimes. If what's true of me is true for you,it could be a combination of you temperament and negative past experiences that make you suspicious of orange. Your temperament and how that fits in with the norm/average of the people in a particular stage in a particular society. 

For me for example, I'm disagreeable and I will say what I'm thinking. I will call someone's beliefs retarded. I'm not politically correct by temperament. I want to live a life where myself and others don't leave unfinished business or withold words. (See the book Radical Honesty). This makes me stand apart from other people in green. I myself am yellow. My politics far more closely aligns with liberals than it does with conservatives, despite the fact some of them will hate me. Both in social and economic views I agree with them. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by lmfao

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, datamonster said:

 

 

Classic. This baby belongs in the Orange mega thread. 

It beautifully highlights Orange rationalization and distraction from the harms of corporate greed, corruption and plutocracy. 

[soos_mite_ah]

@JosephKnecht  I think it would be a good idea for people to have more of a say iin regards to where their tax dollars go. I think I remember reading somewhere of an idea where there is a portion of your taxes and you get to chose which department it goes to. And i mean, some governments, like the U.S. (I know I keep bringing them up, I live there and I have more context to speak on it) do have money to spend, they just put a large chunk of it towards things like the military. It is definitely necessary for security concerns don't get me wrong but budgeting  and priorities should be looked at in a more critical lens. But that's a whole separate topic. 

Also, I like the idea of imagining different scenarios. I think on top of that it's good to recognize their interests as well. I know that has definitely helped me not demonize orange as much as I did in the past. After I started taking classes for my business degrees, a lot of things started to make more sense and didn't seem as malicious. It wasn't good or bad, it just was and in a way that helped me see how the concept/ theory in question would be applicable in which contexts. 

[soos_mite_ah]

@lmfao  I think its good to also bring up temperament and personal inclinations to this.  I guess I did lean more towards green and away from orange from a very young age. Growing up i wasn't really materialistic. I wasn't the type to want the newest xyz for Christmas, birthdays etc. There was a point where I would look down on people who were overly indulgent when it came to luxury but now I would say that i'm pretty much at peace with it and hell I can let loose and enjoy myself too. 

I also like how you brought up possible negative past experiences with a stage. I instantly thought of how my mom tried to make me really competitive in school with my friends when that didn't come naturally and my instinct was to be friends and work together with my supposed competition. She tried to push this "every man for themselves and no one will like you if you're not number one" narrative on me and that seemed toxic even when I was really little like say 8 or 9.

Now that I'm older, I can differentiate between healthy and unhealthy forms of competition, but I wouldn't be surprised if that experience still effects me since I was exposed to an unhealthy form of competition first. It's still my automatic instinct to shy away from competition and try to build relationships even now.