Why are men expected to provide for women?

[Member]

Women are not built for labor work. Their only work is to get their nails done.

[Preety_India]

 

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Don't argue with me. Just answer a simple question in a direct way without overthinking it, if you are authentic.

I don't need to answer your questions because I don't like how you talk to me.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Leo Gura

This has to be the norm, yet it isn't.

That's just your bias for selfish reasons.

No one has to suit you.

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just your bias for selfish reasons.

No one has to suit you.

I'm speaking for my gender, call it whatever you want.

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

 

I don't need to answer your questions because I don't like how you talk to me. So just leave me alone. I'm not here to fight with you. I'm not here to impress you. 

If you don't like my opinions, just ignore me or hit the ignore button. At least that much courtesy you can show.. Thanks 

So don't attack me next time if I ask you a question. You are on a public forum. If you are gonna just speak nonsense I'm gonna call it out. It would be better if you could follow your advice and ignore my question instead of attacking me personally by accusing me of arguing around.

[electroBeam]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just your bias for selfish reasons.

No one has to suit you.

Well no one has to have a baby either. Its selfish and bias to have a baby.

[remember]

2 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Well no one has to have a baby either. Its selfish and bias to have a baby.

you are talking about your last relationship?  still hurting?

[Farnaby]

I think it has probably different causes: cultural, tradional gender roles, but also biology/instincts. 

It's certainly changing lately and my guess is that there's going to be some backlash to the other pole (where women refuse anything that reminds them of traditional ways of living) and then it will have to balance itself out again. 

I've noticed that there's a lot of confusion going on in some people. They rationally think for instance that a monogamous relationship is "bad" (because it has historically oppressed women) and yet they are most happy when they have a healthy monogamous relationship. Not saying that open/polyamorous relationships are bad. Just saying that some people seem to get attached to an ideology and go against their natural wants and needs. The same can be said about people who repress their sexuality because religion told them it's bad. 

Coming back to the OP, the same can be said about providing/receiving. Actually, I think that in a healthy relationship, both people should provide and receive in a balanced way. 

There's lots of generational trauma. Actually, I think it can be seen in @Preety_India's post when she said:

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Now I see a ton of young girls my age around me. They make money and they don't want to marry. They know what their mothers went through and they don't want to go through the same thing.. 

It's one thing to be in touch with your needs and notice that marriage isn't one of them and a very different thing to reject marriage because "they know what their mothers went through". That's generational trauma. 

[Applegarden]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@bmcnicho Carry a baby for 9 months and squeeze it out through your legs. Then let's talk.

Pretty interesting statement. Yes, women do have to go trough that process, if they want to. But making babies is a choice. Yes maybe very tempting choice for various reasons, however it is still a choice. Just like not to cheat, just like staying on diet, just like choosing to meditate to day, just like to have a sexual intercourse e.c.t. At the end of the day, its their choice.

If you said that earlier when women were literal baby factories, it would make more sense, but now the gender roles are literally becoming very liquid and women to men relationship has become far different. In maybe 300 years or to be safe in 1000 years it has changed pretty radically. And the provider dynamic is changing as women start to outcompete men in various fields like work or education on average in first world countries for example.

 

[Preety_India]

 

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

I'm speaking for my gender, call it whatever you want.

So don't attack me next time if I ask you a question. You are on a public forum. If you are gonna just speak nonsense I'm gonna call it out. It would be better if you could follow your advice and ignore my question instead of attacking me personally by accusing me of arguing around.

You're the one who is attacking me with your questions. Because I'm not interested in talking to you. . People will have different opinions
 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Preety_India

[Spiral]

Besides breastfeeding, why should a women be more responsible for raising a child? 
 

In my country we get over a year’s worth of paid parental leave. If I have children I’d certainly do my part and take care of the kid for 6 six months and after a year it goes to kindergarten. 
 

In regards to providing financial support, it’s consider a type of semi-prostitution. Not illegal but certainly looked down upon(both parties).

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Spiral

[Gesundheit]

3 hours ago, Keyhole said:

 

 

Quote

The women that are considered more valuable than men would be very beautiful women, average looking women or women past a certain age generally have less value than a man. However when making comments like these the women that men usually had in mind do not encompass the entirety of our gender and so most of us are actually mentally excluded from the pool of subjects discussed, because beautiful women generally are given preferential treatment, you're not wrong in your assessment, but you would need to include women all across the board and then to take a look at how they are treated before coming to that conclusion.

A man does not become a jerk because his wife is aging. If anything, that's his individual fault. We are against this entirely. Respect is a must for both genders and all human beings regardless of age or beauty. Age and beauty are saved to bed. If a woman is getting better treatment from her man for her beauty, that makes her a lucky one, not more valuable. Beauty is subjective after all.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Gesundheit

[remember]

in a lot of cases it’s still, that if people live together the male (or in a gay relationship maybe one before the other) profits from where the female puts her attention into, in a lot of cases it’s getting easier for males, or they profit in another way from woman’s way to put time and energy into the living environment, more or less this gets into a dynamic where „of course“ it’s not expected but somehow also taken for granted in sense of the dynamic which unfolds - in the beginning this might not weigh to much, it starts with moving in together, and one part in the relationship taking a supporting roll maybe playing the psychologue if sth at work is not ok caring for several stuff the other partner would not care about but profits of and certainly has its peak in: „yeah but my job is more time consuming“.

[Gesundheit]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You're the one who is attacking me with your questions.

Lol

[Preety_India]

53 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Lol

 

I won't debate you.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Preety_India

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Just stop talking to me and replying to me. I said several times that I don't like talking to you. 

Leave me alone.

Ok.

[remember]

6 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

Women are adults with equal rights and abilities, so why are men, at least to a certain extent, still expected to provide for them?  Why would men do this? What do men get in return?  Men aren’t the parents of the women they date, so it just seems really stupid and unnatural.  Sure women provide men with emotional support, companionship, affection, and various other things depending on the individual, but men provide all those things to women too.

Of course there are lots of women with successful careers who don’t expect this, but in general men are largely judged based on what kind of job they have, whereas women, with the exception of shallow men who care mostly about appearance, are evaluated more so for their personal qualities, which I think is a much more reasonable standard.

This phenomenon could be explained in terms of evolutionary biology or as an after-effect of traditional gender roles, but isn’t it contrary to the values of modern liberal democracy?  Doesn’t that standard suggest that women are inherently more valuable, while men have to give the products of their labor to women in exchange for their attention? 

i‘d say it depends mainly on the society you live in - if your society makes it harder for women or expects from women to stay home, its much more difficult for women to earn her own money and be independent within a relationship - if you from the privileged gender does not want to provide financially for the woman you love who struggles maybe with external circumstances, the only way you can change the situation is to support her in her attempt to be independent, that’s at least what women have done for males over centuries. a relationship does not constitute of two parallel lifetimes it constitutes of lifelines with karmic entanglements.

emancipation does not mean only the women have to emancipate and men go on being disconnected from their social environment.

there is one question about the money part guys could answer to themselves: do i care with what she earns her money, or would i accept someone who does sex labour as an equal partner who at least earns maybe even more money than i do? no, most men have expectations towards the women they have a relationship to, some even make women the sole provider. i still wait for the day i don’t feel like men see relationships only as a transaction with themselves in the loosing roll, because my life ultimately is for free. the donor was my mom.

Edited July 31, 2020 by remember

[Member]

57 minutes ago, Applegarden said:

Pretty interesting statement. Yes, women do have to go trough that process, if they want to. But making babies is a choice. Yes maybe very tempting choice for various reasons, however it is still a choice. Just like not to cheat, just like staying on diet, just like choosing to meditate to day, just like to have a sexual intercourse e.c.t. At the end of the day, its their choice.

If you said that earlier when women were literal baby factories, it would make more sense, but now the gender roles are literally becoming very liquid and women to men relationship has become far different. In maybe 300 years or to be safe in 1000 years it has changed pretty radically. And the provider dynamic is changing as women start to outcompete men in various fields like work or education on average in first world countries for example.

Lol, you don't understand. Taking care a child is not easy and women are better at doing this job. As for the choice, in a normal, healthy relationship there are both partners deciding that. Men should protect the woman and the woman should protect the child. It's about taking care of the weak out of love and responsibility, this has nothing to do with competition for fuck' sake.

[Applegarden]

@Member You missed my point. If you don't give birth to a child, there is nobody to raise. And there is competition involved because everybody has to get educated to get a job, and get a job, before the individuals choice to make children. What do you mean, men should protect the the women and women should protect the child. Sure shit happens and there are people that will trying to exploit your family, however in first world countries THE GOVERMENT PROTECTS YOU IN AGREEMENT TO FUEL ITS ECONONY. The police, school, medical system e.c.t. protects you. At large from who man will protect your woman? From a nuclear warhead? Raising a child is pretty much a versatile thing, unless the child is an infant and even then, you can grow an infant in a lab and substitute the mothers milk. In a system that has a capitalistic element in it, it is mostly about competition, survival is competition anyhow. The notion of love in our societies is so scarce, wo what are you talking about. Maybe the love from your parents, sure, if you had both or any, or werent abused and treated like a property or didnt have tiger parents. Or your friends or community, which you cab probably count on your fingers the number of people you have conditional love.

With womeb being better at rising a child, infant maybe, but a man with a balanced feminine quality should do really good, look at Sadhguru jaggi vasudev and his daughter which he raised alone from a young age, looks very healthy and balanced person to me.

About something being easy or hard. Depends on peoples capability and choice of being responsible, doesn't it?

I smell a right wing ideology.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Well no one has to have a baby either. Its selfish and bias to have a baby.

The problem is that you guys are not aware of your self-biases so they warp your understanding of reality.

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

I find it interesting that I didn’t mention marriage or children in the original post, yet that’s what a lot of people used as an explanation.  The standard of men being providers applies to a certain extent to all age groups and regardless if the people involved are considering marriage and family.

Also, once the kids are in school this no longer applies, so this is only a valid justification for a few years out of 60+ years of adulthood.

Women build the dream itself (the structures necessary for the dream to continue, namely, human bodies. Women build babies in their stomach. Without new babies the dream would end).

Men build the content within the dream. (and women sort of also do this from time to time, but many, if not most, are still mostly family-oriented, i.e. building the structures supporting the dream: human beings).

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean