Holding a BLM Sign In Arkansas

[Forestluv]

54 minutes ago, Call Me Whatever said:

@Forestluv My point is none of these people are going to face de-platforming, job loss, two minutes hate, loss of reputation, doxxing, etc., for promoting a program supported by every organ of power in society. In other words, there is no risk whatsoever for its promotion. 

Believing there are zero risks in fully embracing and promoting BLM is a naive view. It’s definitely not my experience, what I’ve learned from others within the movement and what I’ve observed in various sectors of society. There are many risks ranging from minor to severe. 

There are many people and institutions (including my own) that are having debates regarding the risks and benefits of associating / promoting BLM as well as to what extent they should do so. 

[Extreme Z7]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Hahahahahaha

Ignorance has no bottom.

<Insert comparison to that one Einstein quote here>

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Call Me Whatever said:

@Leo Gura "They don't realize how tame that is compared to a true bloodbath"

I think we should keep in mind the extreme brutality the political right is capable of, with history being our guide. 

Don't forget that relative liberals killed the Nazis.

[diamondpenguin]

As long as everyone loves each other its gonna be alright. For now though unfortunately it looks like we all have to run the gauntlet for a long time while trump Is in office. Hopefully Biden will start to help ease the country. Trump is like a deceptive clown pulling the strings of the system. On his social media pages all he does on there is shit on Biden using popular culture to appease the groups of people who dont trust him. 

[Parththakkar12]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what will not happen.

The powerful and selfish have never given up their power willingly or nicely. They have always been forced into doing it.

Fighting for social justice is the only way you get justice. It's just a question of what form that fighting will take.

Historically, getting justice required killing people.

This does not mean I condone killing people for political gain. But historically that is how the powerful and selfish were put in their place.

Alright. You may have to fight the powerful and selfish. But, when a sizeable swath of the population is not happy with what you're doing, are you sure you're doing them a service? The whole point of SJW-ism is to serve the public by creating the change you want, am I right? Let's not forget that the people in power are there for a reason.

If you ask someone 'Should Black people have rights?', most Stage Blue people will say yes. There will be some Alt-right Nazis who will say no, but most decent people will say yes. However, it's these very same people who are not happy with BLM. If you ask them why, I'm sure they'll tell you it's because they aren't happy with the way it's played out. This isn't one or two people, it's actually the majority. When you have that going, the people in power will successfully uphold the status-quo against you. I think they'd be right to do so.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Parththakkar12
When I wrote 'Black', I meant the race and when I wrote 'Blue', I meant the spiral stage. I denoted them the same way by mistake!

[Leo Gura]

@Parththakkar12 Most stage Blue whites will deny that blacks are treated unfairly. They are ignorant of how systemic racism works and they blindly defend Murica.

[Parththakkar12]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Parththakkar12 Most stage Blue whites will deny that blacks are treated unfairly. They are ignorant of how systemic racism works and they blindly defend Murica.

Maybe they will deny it. Their perspective is limited. But it is still a valid and important perspective.

You can say it's 'egotism that distracts from progress'. That is undeniably true. Having said that, the ego is still a valid part of human beings. I'm gonna ask you this - what kind of a relationship do you want to have with your own ego, or our egos, or their egos? This is an important question we must ask ourselves if we, as progressives, are wanting to wake them up.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

If you ask them why, I'm sure they'll tell you it's because they aren't happy with the way it's played out. This isn't one or two people, it's actually the majority. When you have that going, the people in power will successfully uphold the status-quo against you. I think they'd be right to do so.

They will say theyre not happy with how its played out but this isnt really true. Most people will say they agree with whatever they need to so as not to be deemed a bad person in the eyes of society (for survival reasons), but that doesnt mean that they dont feel a certain way internally. In this case with the sign, many feel emboldened to attack it because their community is mostly white and of the same mindset so they dont have to face any negative consequences from their actions, if someone had the same feelings in new york city they wouldnt be so blatant about how they show it. 

Why they tend to get annoyed is because they cant voice these feelings or they get criticised so they feel that their freedom of speech is being taken away, which causes frustration etc also others in the mainstream that they relate to cant voice these opinions, so they feel their voice is unheard. Therefore if black people are protesting that they want rights its almost offensive to them because they see it as unfair that black people can voice these opinions but they cant voice their opinions that maybe black people are complaining about nothing or racism doesnt exist. Any honest debate will at least show them that they are mistaken or at least lacking perspective in this issue, but the point is they dont want to have that debate because they are happy with things the way they are. 

I know you have a thing against sjws and I do get that they can be judgemental and superior, but they make the environment uncomfortable for people with these misinformed opinions and beliefs and that is precisely what is needed. You should not be comfortable holding racist beliefs, Nazis should have never been so comfortable believing Jews were inferior. The idea that theyre not protesting right is just looking for justification to shut all conversation down. 

  

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

But it is still a valid and important perspective.

I don't really see how denying systemic racism in 2020 is an important perspective.

Maybe that was okay in 1990, but it's time to move on.

[Parththakkar12]

Denial is a behavior. But the people doing it have an important and valid perspective. The reason I say that is they're all a part of You.

[Forestluv]

59 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Denial is a behavior. But the people doing it have an important and valid perspective. 

Denying the earth is spherical, climate change and microbes exist are also ‘behaviors’, yet I wouldn’t call it an “important and valid perspective”. Its important to move beyond these denials to make progress.

[Parththakkar12]

You guys seem to be interested in winning the intellectual battle. That is important. What I mean by that is bringing in the science, proving your claims about systemic racism and debating with them. It is important to prove to yourself that those claims are based in reality, otherwise the conservatives will end up gaslighting you into believing it's BS. That's step 1.

The next step though is to wake them up. That is an entirely different ballgame altogether. Debating with them does not work, as they become more contracted and resistant. Debating is important if you want to get solid in your perspective on it, not so much if you want to wake them up! Waking them up will first require you to put aside your selfish reasons to do so. If you don't do that, you will end up perpetuating their dysfunctional indoctrinating practices. It will have to come from a place of genuinely being on their side and caring about them. For this, we must first wake up to the reality that they are a part of Us.

How bad do you want progress? How hard are you willing to work on yourself to create it? This will be an important question all the way. It will require you to see things about yourself that you will resist like hell. It will also require you to reconsider your opinions, be radically open-minded and work on your beliefs. (which is standard practice for folks like us) Once you've really found and put aside your selfish reasons to do so, then the next step will be to borrow a page from Spiral Wizardry. To see what they're missing, and what they would be open to seeing.

These are my insights. I'm sure @Leo Gura understands this because of what he teaches. My hope is that other progressives also understand this.

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

The next step though is to wake them up.

You don’t describe the methodology or actions for this step. How would you go about waking up a systemic racism denier?

Without the methodology and action toward actual progress, it becomes Jordan Peterson-esque “concern” for progressives, which allows for the continuation of status quo. 

[Parththakkar12]

Just now, Forestluv said:

You don’t discuss this step in your essay. How would you go about waking up a systemic racism denier?

Before doing this, step zero would be to do an honest enquiry on what's to be gained from doing this, what good will this do for yourself or the world. Will this boost your sense of significance? Will it give you a sense of intellectual superiority? Would they want to see what you're about to show them? I'm not saying the selfish reasons are bad, I'm saying it's important to be conscious of them so that your ego doesn't hijack the process.

The first step would be to wake up to the reality that they are a part of You. Leo describes this very well in his video on 'What is the Devil - The Mechanics of Evil'. When you see that, you are able to get insight on what they are missing. It almost always turns out to be something you weren't expecting! When you understand their perspective, you will understand the following - It looks like they're crazy to miss the elephant in the room that is systemic racism, but it's very easy to miss it from their perspective.

Then, you want to get good at communicating. You want to become conscious of projections on your part and their part. It's a good idea to understand why those projections are there. The point of this would be to have clear and coherent communication where you generally trust each other and are on the same page. You also want to become conscious of what their motivations are and what they need, what they're scared of. When you do that from a conscious perspective, you start to have answers for them on how they can get what they want. This makes your opinion very important to them, as importance corresponds to needs/desires. This will make it so that when you talk, they will be all ears.

The next step would be to go ahead and figure out a way to meet their needs. I don't have any business experience, so I'm still figuring out this part. But someone with business experience/marketing experience would be able to figure this out. Also, someone with a background in social work or activism would be able to figure this out.

The hope from this whole process is to first resolve the conflict, then to create incentives for them to wake up to it. What we need to understand is that they can deny it all they want, you can't take away their free will. So waking them up is a vulnerable process for you, where your success/failure entirely depends on what they decide to do.

[Forestluv]

@Parththakkar12 That’s not my question. You stated “The next step though is to wake them up.”. I’m asking specifically about this step. I agree, one’s own self awareness and communication dynamics are important. Yet, I’m asking about the specific actions to wake them up. Imagine we have a systemic racism denier. What specific actions would you take to wake them up to the actuality of systemic racism?

27 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

The next step would be to go ahead and figure out a way to meet their needs.

And what would the ‘needs’ of a systemic racism denier be?. . . Appeasement to systemic racism deniers perpetuates systemic racism.

[Consept]

This is a good example of acting concerned but at the same time denying there's a problem. If you skip to 16.50 Shapiro gives his solution which I've never actually heard before, let me know what you think - 

 

[Parththakkar12]

21 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Parththakkar12 That’s not my question. You stated “The next step though is to wake them up.”. I’m asking specifically about this step. I understand the importance of one’s own self awareness. I’m asking about the methodology and specific actions to wake them up. Imagine we have a systemic racism denier. What specific actions would you take to wake them up?

The part where I mentioned helping them figure out more conscious ways of meeting those needs. If I were a BLM activist (or some sort of racial equality activist), I would take the lead in meeting those needs.

Say for example, in my inner work where I find out their reasons, I understand that some racist White people come from White-trashy backgrounds where they were poor. Now when Black people are having more of a say than White people, these people are feeling jealous of Black people, which has turned into hatred and resentment. The problem here isn't that they think Black people are inferior, the real problem is they're poor. So, I'd team up with other activists who are in charge of lobbying for creating blue-collar job opportunities in their area, where you can learn a particular trade or skill. If they're willing to work hard, figure out a way to recruit them.

As I said, I don't really have experience as an activist, so someone who does have that background could debate me on the effectiveness of my ideas. My point is that I'd dig hard enough to find the root before deciding what to solve, and I'd do it from a space of awareness that they are a part of Me.

The more their motivations for hating Black people go away, and the more secure they feel about their survival, the more they'll be naturally motivated to get out of their narcissistic bubble. The more they'll want to wake up to the reality of systemic racism. The point is to remove incentives for being racist and add incentives to wake up to it.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Parththakkar12]

19 minutes ago, Consept said:

This is a good example of acting concerned but at the same time denying there's a problem. If you skip to 16.50 Shapiro gives his solution which I've never actually heard before, let me know what you think - 

 

That's a classic Stage Blue/Orange solution. I'm no expert in solving these problems. What I'll say is let the experts debate the feasibility, debate the effectiveness and arrive at a multi-faceted, technically complex solution to a technically complex problem. Then to try and test the different solutions until you see positive results.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Say for example, in my inner work where I find out their reasons, I understand that some racist White people come from White-trashy backgrounds where they were poor. Now when Black people are having more of a say than White people, these people are feeling jealous of Black people, which has turned into hatred and resentment. The problem here isn't that they think Black people are inferior, the real problem is they're poor. So, I'd team up with other activists who are in charge of lobbying for creating blue-collar job opportunities, where you can learn a particular trade or skill.

Imo, this is important and has value, yet falls short. White poverty is a problem that should be addressed. In the bigger picture, wealth inequality and corporate plutocracy is a major problem. I think it’s very important to redistribute wealth into poor communities and lift up poor white, black and brown people. This would alleviate a lot of racial tensions and help move toward equality. Yet there will still the problem of systemic racism, nationalism, cultural wars etc to be addressed. 

Also, the people that benefit most from systemic racism and perpetuate need to wake up for change. There are a lot of middle to upper class people that would prefer to be “colorblind”, turn a blind eye and allow the status quo to continue. And there are the wealthy and people in power that want the system to continue. 

[Leo Gura]

You can't convince a closedminded ideologue. Our focus is on educating those people who are in the middle and clueless about these issues. Which is most people.