An argument against the Portland Protests

[Nak Khid]

 

[Leo Gura]

The thing is, his perspective is quite ahistorical.

Peaceful protests for justice and equality are almost always demonized as violent and criminal. This serves those in power and the status quo.

Case in point, the Civil Rights movement.

When the citizenry feels a great injustice, they will protest. Violence will always break out because you cannot perfectly control hundreds of thousands of people. Police will crack down. And this is how progress is made. Progress is not always made through the voting system, especially when the voting system is gerrymandered and bought off by millionaires and billionaires.

Conservatives should expect more stage Green protests over the next decade as the status quo fails to meet the needs of the people. Progress will happen peacefully or violently, but it will happen.

[Nak Khid]

6 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

Members of Antifa for example were paid to vandalize, paid by whom? Georgo Soros,

that's BS

[Nak Khid]

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The thing is, his perspective is quite ahistorical.

Peaceful protests for justice and equality are almost always demonized as violent and criminal. This serves those in power and the status quo.

Case in point Civil Rights movement.

 

The protests in Portland are only partially like Martin Luther King peaceful protests. 
They also burn things each night , set off a lot of fireworks in the direction of these Fed agents, are trying to transgress a fence around a Federal Building, cover the place in graffiti and break things
and this has been going on for 61 nights 

Trump however escalated the situation with the Fed Troops 

but these protest are only semi- peaceful and they are sustained over a long period of time

Some  argue civil rights improvement in the 60s were not just due to peaceful protests but also to a large number of riots all throughout the 60s 
starting in 1963 
However this is a complex analysis of cause and effect and with a lot of consequences 

watch this now, LIVE ,  >>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHLg8HK9GwM

 

or multi angel view , hit full screen after link

https://www.twitch.tv/woke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Leo Gura]

So?

There were also the Black Panthers.

Like I said, it's impossible to have only peaceful protests when things get serious. Not everyone is gonna take it lying down.

The mob will come for you with their pitchforks if you piss them off enough. That's what's happening here.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying how society has always worked. If Trump stays in office long enough, the mob will come for him and it won't look pretty.

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The thing is, his perspective is quite ahistorical.

Peaceful protests for justice and equality are almost always demonized as violent and criminal. This serves those in power and the status quo.

Case in point, the Civil Rights movement.

When the citizenry feels a great injustice, they will protest. Violence will always break out because you cannot perfectly control hundreds of thousands of people. Police will crack down. And this is how progress is made. Progress is not always made through the voting system, especially when the voting system is gerrymandered and bought off by millionaires and billionaires.

Conservatives should expect more stage Green protests over the next decade as the status quo fails to meet the needs of the people. Progress will happen peacefully or violently, but it will happen.

Nice points.

But still, what happens right now in the US with all these protests is obnoxious. And all these antivaxers, anti-government people are abnoxious as well. I thought of migrating to the US but now I lost my desire to do so, I'm looking more towards Netherlands or northern Europe now

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The thing is, his perspective is quite ahistorical.

Peaceful protests for justice and equality are almost always demonized as violent and criminal. This serves those in power and the status quo.

Case in point, the Civil Rights movement.

When the citizenry feels a great injustice, they will protest. Violence will always break out because you cannot perfectly control hundreds of thousands of people. Police will crack down. And this is how progress is made. Progress is not always made through the voting system, especially when the voting system is gerrymandered and bought off by millionaires and billionaires.

Conservatives should expect more stage Green protests over the next decade as the status quo fails to meet the needs of the people. Progress will happen peacefully or violently, but it will happen.

What if the system is fundamentally incapable of handling the change protesters want? If that's true, the system will simply be unable to stop the violence because it won't be able to strike a deal with the protesters. The protesters/rioters will end up tearing the system to the ground. In that case, we could see radical progress come on the back of major conflict/war.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Gidiot]

@Parththakkar12 it can, it’s more economic than cultural.

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The thing is, his perspective is quite ahistorical.

Peaceful protests for justice and equality are almost always demonized as violent and criminal. This serves those in power and the status quo.

Case in point, the Civil Rights movement.

When the citizenry feels a great injustice, they will protest. Violence will always break out because you cannot perfectly control hundreds of thousands of people. Police will crack down. And this is how progress is made. Progress is not always made through the voting system, especially when the voting system is gerrymandered and bought off by millionaires and billionaires.

Conservatives should expect more stage Green protests over the next decade as the status quo fails to meet the needs of the people. Progress will happen peacefully or violently, but it will happen.

Why are you assuming it was the violent protests progressing things and not the peaceful protests. There is data that shows violent protests usually hurt the cause while peaceful protests helped it. MLK was peaceful and made a lot of progress, than after he died there were huge riots and the democrats lost horribly next election because Nixon ran on law and order. 

[Nak Khid]

 

[Nak Khid]

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Why are you assuming it was the violent protests progressing things and not the peaceful protests. There is data that shows violent protests usually hurt the cause while peaceful protests helped it. MLK was peaceful and made a lot of progress, than after he died there were huge riots and the democrats lost horribly next election because Nixon ran on law and order. 

I didn't assume.

I said that when there are massive peaceful protests there will necessarily also be violent elements and movements.

But in the end, when peace fails, people will resort to violence -- as has been the case in all mob-led revolutions throughout history.

Peaceful protests are a relatively recent innovation of the 20th century. Mobs weren't so kind for much of human history.

[Call Me Whatever]

These aren't revolutionaries.

The revolution will be... sponsored by Apple? Mcdonalds? The NFL?

This is laughable. 

[Call Me Whatever]

Revolution brings the possibility of real social change, it doesn't enforce a corporate imposed status quo.

How bizarre this whole situation is. 

[Raze]

Honestly from what I see BLM is generally doing peaceful protests right now but Antifa is laying siege on a federal courthouse. I don't see how Trump is being fascist, as far as I can tell all the soldiers are doing is defending a federal spot. I really am baffled why people are supporting antifa attacking the courthouse, it isn't helping the cause, what do they even want with the courthouse? I understand rioters attacking spots like the police station Chauvin worked at, or statues, but this is literally a random court house where nothing even happened.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Raze

[Call Me Whatever]

What we're witnessing is 4th generation warfare where the primary objective is to gain the moral high ground. The portland "protesters", "rioters", whatever you want to call them, are observably failing. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Call Me Whatever said:

These aren't revolutionaries.

The revolution will be... sponsored by Apple? Mcdonalds? The NFL?

This is laughable. 

When a mob comes for your head, you will step in line.

The reason Apple, McDonalds, NFL, etc are stepping in line is because they see that if they get on the wrong side of this, they will lose customers and $$$.

[Call Me Whatever]

@Raze Trump is just weak. 

[Forestluv]

59 minutes ago, Raze said:

Honestly from what I see BLM is generally doing peaceful protests right now but Antifa is laying siege on a federal courthouse. I don't see how Trump is being fascist, as far as I can tell all the soldiers are doing is defending a federal spot. I really am baffled why people are supporting antifa attacking the courthouse, it isn't helping the cause, what do they even want with the courthouse? I understand rioters attacking spots like the police station Chauvin worked at, or statues, but this is literally a random court house where nothing even happened.

There is a protest every night at the courthouse. A small percentage of the protestors are “agitators”. They pound the fence, through fireworks into the courtyard and start small fires in the courtyard. This provokes the feds / ppd to come out and deploy tear gas and impact munitions against the protestors. These agitators are not part of some organization called “antifa”. If you watch livestreams, you can see the events live and learn from protestors there. The reporters often describe the events as they occur.

During the early evening protests, BLM speakers tell the protestors not to cause destruction or mayhem, yet a small percentage of protestors lose their discipline and start agitating the feds. Personally, I would like to see other protestors there reprimand the agitators and tell them to calm down. I agree with you that it would be more productive if the agitators chilled out and the feds stayed inside the bldg. Yet there is a lot of frustration and anger.

[remember]

people who call antifa fascists and all left radical are fascists usually - hitler and goebbels and their likes were not really the doers of their organization they delivered the tone for radicalization though.

it‘s really to be seen historically. mccarthy for example was def a fascist. fascism is not defined historically by racism but also by all kinds of political discrimination especially for the political left - they usually forget to say that the massive number of people dying in the kz‘s were also politically unwanted, physiologically unwanted and psychologically unwanted people next to racistically unwanted and also those who collaborated with these groups.

trump unites a lot of fascistoid  ideals in his person - nationalism, shaming and blaming the left, racism (the wall), supporting police force against peaceful protesters (which was happening especially in the beginning), manipulating public democratic truth and replacing it with his own, creating power structures which respond to him personally while being in a democratic power position.

Edited July 29, 2020 by remember