"Everything is Love" is subjective bias

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You are right. It is all about experience, categories are not useful. But then, what is the goal of your videos? you are transmitting ideas, thoughts, words, categories, there. If ideas are not useful all then why do you do that?

They are useful if you have an open mind and you put them to use.

[RedLine]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@RedLine

And you cannot use Ken Wilber's AQAL model to grasp the Absolute.

You cannot use language to grasp the Absolute. So why are you writing in this forum?

[James123]

9 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You cannot use language to grasp the Absolute. So why are you writing in this forum?

do you think this is a forum? It is you, love it. Thats why awakening is necessary for you. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by James123

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You cannot use language to grasp the Absolute. So why are you writing in this forum?

I talk about a lot more than the Absolute. Mostly I talk about relative stuff.

But also I point to the Absolute in various ways.

Wilber's 4 quadrants is fundamentally dualistic because it requires cutting the world up with distinctions. Wilber's model is relative and cannot be applied to the Absolute itself. The Absolute is not divided into subjective/objective or I/we.

Subjective experience is the ground for everything else. So in this way Wilber's model is misleading. Wilber's model is itself only exists within your subjective experience, as does Wilber, for that matter.

There is nothing but your subjective experience. Period.

[RedLine]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I talk about a lot more than the Absolute. Mostly I talk about relative stuff.

But also I point to the Absolute in various ways.

Wilber's 4 quadrants is fundamentally dualistic because it requires cutting the world up with distinctions. Wilber's model is relative and cannot be applied to the Absolute itself. The Absolute is not divided into subjective/objective or I/we.

Subjective experience is the ground for everything else. So in this way Wilber's model is misleading. Wilber's model is itself only exists within your subjective experience, as does Wilber, for that matter.

There is nothing but your subjective experience. Period.

I disagree with that subjectivitic view. I don't think mysticism explain everything.

Anyway, I am open to all that possibilities. This thread was a little bit playing devil’s advocate to see how the people answer to the question so I could get any insight. I will try to go deep with all the stuff you teach and I will see what happens.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by RedLine

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, RedLine said:

I disagree with that subjectivitic view.

Of course you do. Which is why you're not awake.

[RedLine]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you do. Which is why you're not awake.

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you do. Which is why you're not awake.

so Wilber is not awake

[Scholar]

What we need is a round table talk of all the enlightened people. It has to happen.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, RedLine said:

so Wilber is not awake

Not as awake as he could be.

But also, Wilber spends a lot of his time talking about the relative. So you have to be careful with this models. His models are useful for relative world stuff. They are useful from the POV of science, for example. But they will hold you back from understanding the Absolute.

Wilber's AQAL model is great in many relative contexts, like in understanding politics, for example. Just don't try to use it to get to God.

If you want to make all this a lot easier, just take a psychedelic and you will be shown what Love is.

[RedLine]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not as awake as he could be.

But also, Wilber spends a lot of his time talking about the relative. So you have to be careful with this models. His models are useful for relative world stuff. They are useful from the POV of science, for example. But they will hold you back from understanding the Absolute.

Wilber's AQAL model is great in many relative contexts, like in understanding politics, for example. Just don't try to use it to get to God.

If you want to make all this a lot easier, just take a psychedelic and you will be shown what Love is.

 

It is useful to learn AQAL, otherwise subjectivism can be a problem to face reality, as we can see with extreme modalities of posmodernity these days. For example, in a cartoonish way:

- Student: Professor, which is the speed of light

- Professor: There are no speed or light, can you experience that concepts? they are just concepts created by society

 

Of course the professor is right, but he is inoperative.

 

But yeah, I get your point, it could be bad for the spiritual path if you take that map in a metaphysical way . You just need to know that it is a useful tool but is not very deep stuff and ultimatley there is no disctincions of any kind.

 

Both approaches are useful.
 

Edited July 26, 2020 by RedLine

[mandyjw]

@RedLine Have you ever had the infuriating experience of having someone feel sorry for you over something you weren't even suffering for and didn't even feel like you were missing? Like for example they felt sorry that your parents were too poor to take you to the carnival but in reality, roller coasters make you puke and you'd much rather have stayed home? 

[Bogdan]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

Language is a tool and the goal is get the closest you can to reality without "broken it".

No, it's the opposite. You have to "break it"   whatever "it" is

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Subjective experience is the ground for everything else. So in this way Wilber's model is misleading. Wilber's model is itself only exists within your subjective experience, as does Wilber, for that matter.

There is nothing but your subjective experience. Period.

The moment you say subjective is the moment you create the objective in your mind.

[Gesundheit]

You're not not-knowing when you use such labels: infinite, senseless, purposeless, pointless etc.. You're just knowing in a different kind of way. 

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

How can sense be made out of something that's senseless infinite purposeless pointless.

How can everything be grasped.

With thoughts.

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It can't be pinned down because it's infinite.

So when you unknow it, you get to Dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight.

Yet, the word 'infinite' seems to be doing a good job pinning it down.

Unknow what? And how? And why?

[Space]

3 hours ago, RedLine said:

Everything is Love and horrible suffer happens at the same time. It looks contradictory. How do you explain that?

It is not contradictory to me. You simply misunderstand what the word Love means in this context. This isn't a personal attack, just a direct realisation that you have yet to have. Like I mentioned previously, this literally cannot be understood from a normal baseline level of consciousness. You're trying to get this with the logical rational mind, but it literally cannot be done.

Don't believe what I say, but just be open to the possibility that this could be true. You must verify this for yourself. You won't be able to verify this by thinking about it. It's good that you are questioning this stuff.

[VeganAwake]

20 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

You're not not-knowing when you use such labels: infinite, senseless, purposeless, pointless etc.. You're just knowing in a different kind of way. 

With thoughts.

Yet, the word 'infinite' seems to be doing a good job pinning it down.

Unknow what? And how? And why?

Words like boundless, infinite, nameless and endless are words directly pointing to the unknowableness of everything. The mind understands knowing and knows nothing of unknowing.

Yes the mind believes that it can grasp everything with thoughts. It doesn't see its own limitations, so it labels and places everything in a box and checks it off as understood so it can move on to the next thing to not understand.

This is why unknowing or emptying one's class is so important during exploration. 

There might be the experience there that using the word infinite here is doing a good job at pinning something down... but again it's a word used to point to the unknowable.

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

The second you open your mouth you are already wrong. 

And for you and me we don't even have to say anything before we're wrong....?

There's not Someone here & there's no VeganAwake...hehe

 

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 take a psychedelic and you will be shown what Love is.

I think this may be Leo's unique philosophy. 
Did Terrance Mckenna or Martin Ball say  psychedelics show you what Love is?  
If someone knows please let me know where they said this, they may have 

[Gesundheit]

Quote

take a psychedelic and you will be shown what Love is.

But don't take datura because you will be shown what love isn't.

[zeroISinfinity]

5 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

But don't take datura because you will be shown what love isn't.

9 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

 

Leo is you, you created Leo to discover yourself as Love.There is no distance btw him and you. Since it is all One. So since Leo is you, you are judging and hatin' yourself. This is why when you typed that comment you felt like shit.