"Everything is Love" is subjective bias

[Mu_]

@RedLine

sometimes the word Love is not a good word to use for explaining ‘what is’. By the sound of your post and tension you sound a lot like me at one point.  And the word Love caused to much contention in my mind with trying to connect all the dots of all the information that’s out there on the subject of Truth. 

Human experience of Love or good very often brings up images that are Emotional or actions of a certain type toward ‘another’ that don’t cause pain or suffering and for others it’s associated with romantic gestures or kindness and giving something to the poor or ‘another     

The Love (and any word could be used instead since it’s just a word) awakening is pointing to is something that encompasses those types and is more than.  It doesn’t leave out the ‘subjective’ points of view and experience of love or suffering.  

It it sounds like atm you may be hooked on the notion of subjective which very often hinges on the unquestioned assumption of that there are actual or inherent individuals to begin with having experiences. Is there room inside you that leaves open the possibility that this may not be the case?

if you dont know, it’s just as good, assume nothing, letting go of subjective or objective or individuals or collective or All is god as an additional layer put on top ‘.......’ or the mystery of what’s happening now simultaneously everywhere.

Just be in the Truth of really not knowing nor questioning into unsubstantiated notions of ‘anything’. 

Or if you want to keep questioning, do that.  Cheers. 

[FlowerNote]

If you would have zero bias, you would accept absolutely anything in the universe. Which is what universal love is. So "everything is Love" actually comes from a place of zero bias. We as humans can never do this but the universe does because it is completely unbiased.

[roopepa]

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

In short: even though you may have the deepest experience / intuition that the world is love, this does not imply that the Being is love; it only implies that the Being is love FOR YOU.

There is no such thing as Being for you. You are Being. There is no separation. There is no Being somewhere and you elsewhere experiencing it. This is exactly what oneness means.

[molosku]

@Gesundheit

From wikipedia:

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs. Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred, to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

Pretty darn harsh way to say "you will face disagreement" if you ask me. 

[RedLine]

6 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@RedLine

sometimes the word Love is not a good word to use for explaining ‘what is’. By the sound of your post and tension you sound a lot like me at one point.  And the word Love caused to much contention in my mind with trying to connect all the dots of all the information that’s out there on the subject of Truth. 

Human experience of Love or good very often brings up images that are Emotional or actions of a certain type toward ‘another’ that don’t cause pain or suffering and for others it’s associated with romantic gestures or kindness and giving something to the poor or ‘another     

The Love (and any word could be used instead since it’s just a word) awakening is pointing to is something that encompasses those types and is more than.  It doesn’t leave out the ‘subjective’ points of view and experience of love or suffering.  

It it sounds like atm you may be hooked on the notion of subjective which very often hinges on the unquestioned assumption of that there are actual or inherent individuals to begin with.  Is there room inside you that leaves open the possibility that this may not be the case?

if you dont know, it’s just as good, assume nothing, letting go of subjective or objective or individuals or collective or All is god. 

Just be in the Truth of really not knowing nor questioning into unsubstantiated notions of ‘anything’. 

Thank you for you kind words.

 

If you don´t like the term Love, I can formulate the question differently: is Ultimate Reality good or just neutral?

 

 

[Gesundheit]

@molosku I thought it was love. My bad.

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, RedLine said:

is Ultimate Reality good or just neutral?

Ultimate reality is the same as ordinary reality. It's not good or bad or neutral. But it can be any of them in various degrees and depths.

Reality is what it is. Descriptions are just descriptions. Love is love. Suffering is suffering. A tree is a tree. I am myself. Everything is everything. Etc...

[roopepa]

5 minutes ago, RedLine said:

If you don´t like the term Love, I can formulate the question differently: is Ultimate Reality good or just neutral?

Infinitely Good.

You are the ultimate reality. Why be neutral? How stupid do you think you are?

[RedLine]

2 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Infinitely Good.

You are the ultimate reality. Why be neutral? How stupid do you think you are?

here we go again...

 

People suffer af, I suffer af. Is it "infinitely good"? doesn´t look very "good"

[VeganAwake]

Existence or reality doesn't try to be any particular way or the other. It just IS.

It doesn't strive to match are delusions of grandeur of what love is or what it should look like.

Unconditional love is looking at the world with childlike eyes and Wonder and appreciating that there's something rather than nothing. The birds the whales the trees the mountains the rivers and oceans the lakes the cities the trains the automobiles the aircrafts the flowers the bees tying your shoes cleaning up dogshit.... it's f****** incredible how can it be.

We run into problems when we try to ask why and label and judge everything to our particular conditioned belief structure that thinks things should be a certain way.

It's incredible it's incomprehensible it's unknowable.

So unknow it!!

 

 

 

[Nahm]

Just now, RedLine said:

So, why are you using words to making me understand something? Why are you writing in this forum? "See the ‘problem’ with your misunderstanding?"

Love, obviously. You are me, I am you, we are in this together. Notice you didn’t answer the question. You’re employing deflection. I would answer, so that you got deeper’ into it, or at least contemplate why you didn’t answer. In simple relative logic, you made a thread, you claim you’re open minded, then you ignore via deflection. It’s highly worth noticing and understanding - in my opinion. 

That I am making you understanding something is a misnomer. Understanding is letting go of thought attachment, of relativity believed to be absolute, and as such always up to what is absolute To do, though the doing is apparent. Without that suffering, love is readily ever present. Letting go is initially highly counterintuitive to thinking, striving in the vein that there even is something to figure out & perpetuating the experience of the ‘figuring out’. Which is why I asked what’s on your mind, so to speak. By all means though, carry on, and Godspeed. 

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, a bit personally held in my regard / yet at the same time you do seem to be sincere in your seeking understanding. Forewarning...you’re challenging attitude is enjoyable. Here’s some new perspectives you’re open to that might be useful. If you’re not as open as you believe, no worries, just disregard...might come back around down the road, might not at all. 

"Everything is Love" is subjective bias

“Everything” is a thought. No one ever experiences an everything. There isn’t even one thing, let alone an all things, or an every thing. If you inspect & scrutinize, it is discovered there is only a complete perfect no-thing wholeness, no parts, or things. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

If you are in a non-dual state and you experience God, you experience that everything is love, but it does not mean that the rest of the people are experience that.

Nonduality is not a state. That’s a belief about nonduality. You can’t experience God, that’s a misunderstanding of “both”, duality. You can’t experience that everything is love, love is self realization, not “everything” realization. Again, there is no “everything”. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

The same happens when you are depress and you deeply think the world is shit; an on the contrary, when you are very glad you think the world is wonderful.

You as depressed is a label upon what can not be labelled, and that is precisely why it feels as it does - because you are love & pure goodness. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

Maybe the world is Love from your enlighment perspective, you can deeply feeling it, but it does not mean that the world is Love, in general terms.

Love is well beyond, prior to, and appearing as, meaning. Love can not be a perspective, all perspectives are initially an appearance of love, and ultimately there is no appearance. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

What about the holocaust? What about the daily suffering of people? Oh yeah they are not actually suffering, it is just an illusion! You founding it through enlighment! It is bullshit. You are prioritizing your subjectivity over that of others. Why should your subjectivity be more important than that of others?

Only you can transcend suffering. Start be recognizing what is and is not, direct experience. In this example, you’d have to humble down to the recognition the direct experience is only your thought about these. Also notice that to cover that up, blame and accusation is utilized. You don’t have to choose to do that, you can choose to inspect instead. Always up to you. If there seems to be a struggle to do that, letting go emotionally is the key. Emotional suppression keeps the mind contracted, attempting to resolve feeling with thinking. We all try our best, but that never pans out. All roads lead to letting go. How rough your road must be is always up to you. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

In short: even though you may have the deepest experience / intuition that the world is love, this does not imply that the Being is love; it only implies that the Being is love FOR YOU.

Nonduality means, as in points to, that there are not two. Your mind seems paradox locked. I’d write the opposite of your beliefs down, and contemplate them until you genuinely realize they are equally true. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

The proof that everything is not love is that you chose the path of enlightenment over not taking it, because you knew there is suffering, and that it is better to get out of that suffering than to be in that suffering.

That is all an appearance of love. Suffering, with a little inspection, is not something you could be in or out of, it is experience you do or don’t create now, by believing or not believing thoughts (aka thought attachment, or identification as a separate self in many different ways which all are thoughts being believed.)

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

There are truth/reality you can not experience. Other people are experience reality at the same time that you and you can not "see through their eyes".

There are not other people, that’s a belief, and you most definitely can literally see through their eyes. You probably wouldn’t presently believe this and I wouldn’t expect you to, but that can actually become completely normal to you & if you are genuinely interested in helping anyone transcend suffering, it is extremely useful and insightful. There’s a lot of letting go prior to such apparent experiencing. But that’s a relative statement, it’s all appearance / experience, love. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

If you state everything is love you can not state at the same time that there are degrees/modes of Love.

Everything is love and there are degrees and modes of love. Nothing is love and there are no degrees or modes of love. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

You can play the game of non-duality or you can play the game of language but you can not play both games on the same time.

You can also put the games down and awaken, and begin playing the game. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

If you use languaje you need to obey logic and deal with the problems of the languaje.

No ya don’t. It’s up to you to transcend that. You can expect people to comply with your conditions, but you’ll suffer for it and inevitably let it go.

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

From the moment you use the term Love (a concept) you are in the languaje game, so you can not say that evertything is Love (absolute love) and at the same state that there are different degrees of love, because saying that you are agains the concept of absolute love, it goes against logic. 

Love is formless, boundless, unlimited and infinite. Love is conceptual to you because you’ve conceptualized a you and in turn, conceptualized love. Pretty much unavoidable, and absolutely innocent. You are the love conceptualizing, just haven’t self realized yet. Scrutinizing and holding positions as you are is most beneficial, as it inevitably leads to doing the actual “work”, practices, inspection of direct experience, etc. The stuff you are reading about other people doing. All roads lead to letting go, and letting go reveals absolute love. 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

What I mean is that the Truth is not only subjective; basically because you (you as a source of experience) are not the hole reality/truth; so subjective is not the whole map. To understad Truth you need to understad all spheres. And yes, Leo and his disciples are not very interested in objectivity (which is fine, but then you cannot pretend you know everything) and sciencie in general is not interested in experience.

There would seem to be objectivity, and for that matter subjectivity, unless you have transcended perspectives and realized you are what you are referring to as objectivity. Then, there is neither. 

49 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Go to the point: people suffers or not? people are narcissistic, are attach to their egos and suffer for it or no?

Yes, so there is suffer, so you can not state at the same time Reality is love and there are people that it are not in love. That is not Love anymore. The only thing you can say is: reality is Nothing, reality is non-linguistinc; you can define reality in negative terms but you can never say reality is Love because it is a concept and you need to deal with the consecuences. If you say reality is Love then it is already something so you need to deal with the consecuences of that something linguistically.

Reality is love. Reality is nothing. 

40 minutes ago, RedLine said:

I am absolutely not rejecting spirituality practice if that is what you mean

What do you practices look like?  Meditation every day? For how long have you? Weeks, months, years? This would be a key questioning with noticing if you ignore it. It would put to some resistance to letting go of thinking. It would reveal and release what is ‘grinding your gears’ in regard to love. 

[Gesundheit]

6 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Existence or reality doesn't try to be any particular way or the other. It just IS.

It doesn't strive to match are delusions of grandeur of what love is or what it should look like.

Unconditional love is looking at the world with childlike eyes and Wonder and appreciating that there's something rather than nothing. The birds the whales the trees the mountains the rivers and oceans the lakes the cities the trains the automobiles the aircrafts the flowers the bees tying your shoes cleaning up dogshit.... it's f****** incredible how can it be.

We run into problems when we try to ask why and label and judge everything to our particular conditioned belief structure that thinks things should be a certain way.

It's incredible it's incomprehensible it's unknowable.

So unknow it!!

Incredible, incomprehensible, mysterious, etc... are also just labels.

Reality is also mundane, ordinary, obvious, etc...

Half of the picture is not the whole picture.

[Enlightenment]

Yea we are always looking through some lens 

[RedLine]

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Love, obviously. You are me, I am you, we are in this together. Notice you didn’t answer the question. You’re employing deflection. I would answer, so that you got deeper’ into it, or at least contemplate why you didn’t answer. In simple relative logic, you made a thread, you claim you’re open minded, then you ignore via deflection. It’s highly worth noticing and understanding - in my opinion. 

That I am making you understanding something is a misnomer. Understanding is letting go of thought attachment, of relativity believed to be absolute, and as such always up to what is absolute To do, though the doing is apparent. Without that suffering, love is readily ever present. Letting go is initially highly counterintuitive to thinking, striving in the vein that there even is something to figure out & perpetuating the experience of the ‘figuring out’. Which is why I asked what’s on your mind, so to speak. By all means though, carry on, and Godspeed. 

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, a bit personally held in my regard / yet at the same time you do seem to be sincere in your seeking understanding. Forewarning...you’re challenging attitude is enjoyable. Here’s some new perspectives you’re open to that might be useful. If you’re not as open as you believe, no worries, just disregard...might come back around down the road, might not at all. 

"Everything is Love" is subjective bias

“Everything” is a thought. No one ever experiences an everything. There isn’t even one thing, let alone an all things, or an every thing. If you inspect & scrutinize, it is discovered there is only a complete perfect no-thing wholeness, no parts, or things. 

Nonduality is not a state. That’s a belief about nonduality. You can’t experience God, that’s a misunderstanding of “both”, duality. You can’t experience that everything is love, love is self realization, not “everything” realization. Again, there is no “everything”. 

You as depressed is a label upon what can not be labelled, and that is precisely why it feels as it does - because you are love & pure goodness. 

Love is well beyond, prior to, and appearing as, meaning. Love can not be a perspective, all perspectives are initially an appearance of love, and ultimately there is no appearance. 

Only you can transcend suffering. Start be recognizing what is and is not, direct experience. In this example, you’d have to humble down to the recognition the direct experience is only your thought about these. Also notice that to cover that up, blame and accusation is utilized. You don’t have to choose to do that, you can choose to inspect instead. Always up to you. If there seems to be a struggle to do that, letting go emotionally is the key. Emotional suppression keeps the mind contracted, attempting to resolve feeling with thinking. We all try our best, but that never pans out. All roads lead to letting go. How rough your road must be is always up to you. 

Nonduality means, as in points to, that there are not two. Your mind seems paradox locked. I’d write the opposite of your beliefs down, and contemplate them until you genuinely realize they are equally true. 

That is all an appearance of love. Suffering, with a little inspection, is not something you could be in or out of, it is experience you do or don’t create now, by believing or not believing thoughts (aka thought attachment, or identification as a separate self in many different ways which all are thoughts being believed.)

There are not other people, that’s a belief, and you most definitely can literally see through their eyes. You probably wouldn’t presently believe this and I wouldn’t expect you to, but that can actually become completely normal to you & if you are genuinely interested in helping anyone transcend suffering, it is extremely useful and insightful. There’s a lot of letting go prior to such apparent experiencing. But that’s a relative statement, it’s all appearance / experience, love. 

Everything is love and there are degrees and modes of love. Nothing is love and there are no degrees or modes of love. 

You can also put the games down and awaken, and begin playing the game. 

No ya don’t. It’s up to you to transcend that. You can expect people to comply with your conditions, but you’ll suffer for it and inevitably let it go.

Love is formless, boundless, unlimited and infinite. Love is conceptual to you because you’ve conceptualized a you and in turn, conceptualized love. Pretty much unavoidable, and absolutely innocent. You are the love conceptualizing, just haven’t self realized yet. Scrutinizing and holding positions as you are is most beneficial, as it inevitably leads to doing the actual “work”, practices, inspection of direct experience, etc. The stuff you are reading about other people doing. All roads lead to letting go, and letting go reveals absolute love. 

There would seem to be objectivity, and for that matter subjectivity, unless you have transcended perspectives and realized you are what you are referring to as objectivity. Then, there is neither. 

Reality is love. Reality is nothing. 

What do you practices look like?  Meditation every day? For how long have you? Weeks, months, years? This would be a key questioning with noticing if you ignore it. It would put to some resistance to letting go of thinking. It would reveal and release what is ‘grinding your gears’ in regard to love. 

I appreciate your extensive comment, I see a good a heart in your words, but I think communication between you and me is not working at all. You say that I evade the question but I think that you are the one evading the point with subjectivist and non-dual rhetoric. So I think it is better to stop it here.

Perhaps it is my mistake to introduce a philosophical debate in a practical-oriented subforum.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by RedLine

[Nahm]

@RedLine

No worries. Much love for ya. Was just pointing out you made a thread of inquiry but didn’t answer the question. I don’t mean it like I’m trying to bust your chops about it, I mean an insight / realization is there. 

[RedLine]

Just now, Nahm said:

I don’t mean it like I’m trying to bust your chops about it, I mean an insight / realization is there. 

Yes, I know you are very practical-oriented; but the point is it this is not about me, this is not about subjectivity. How "my" subjectivity is does not change how the subjectiviy of the rest of the people is. I'm just a speck of dust in a world of 6.000 M people.

[Mu_]

48 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Thank you for you kind words.

 

If you don´t like the term Love, I can formulate the question differently: is Ultimate Reality good or just neutral?

 

 

Neither.  

[RedLine]

3 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Neither. 

Then we agree. 

[Mu_]

 

1 minute ago, RedLine said:

Then we agree. 

Hahaha do we?  

Its not negative.  Nor is it neutral.

[VeganAwake]

41 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

 

Reality is also mundane, ordinary, obvious, etc...

Half of the picture is not the whole picture.

Those are just labels.... it's not half its immeasurable and unknowable ❤