On Leos video about his health, and his metaphysical position

[High-valance]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a false and dangerous to assume we all share the same reality. We do not.

Well if that was in response to me then I'm not sure you understood it the way that I meant it. I'm not quite saying that literally, beacuse even to say that we share the same reality is a materialist way of putting it. And I don't think the tree we both can see literally is the same tree. I'm saying that the phenomenal appearance of the tree you experience and I experience if we were seeing the so called 'same tree' is realized by the same underlying phenomenal or mental process. That's what I mean when I suggest that we are sharing the same reality. 'But the 'world' of phenomenal appearances that constitute our respective lives aren't the same. There is a non-trivial way in which we are then not sharing the same reality. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by High-valance

[remember]

@High-valance would be interesting to get an answer from you about what causes you to think the way you think. after all there are no causalities. so how would you respond to that? would you even give it a try?

aren‘t you thinking too linear? there is no tree! 

[High-valance]

30 minutes ago, remember said:

@High-valance would be interesting to get an answer from you about what causes you to think the way you think. after all there are no causalities. so how would you respond to that? would you even give it a try?

aren‘t you thinking too linear? there is no tree! 

I think the way that I think beacuse it's obvious that nothing can exist outside consciousness. But then in order to make sense of things, we seemingly have to infer something 'outside'our 'individually consciousness'. But to infer a whole universe outside consciousness seems inflationary, unessesary and like a unimaginable abstraction. So the inferance is one of phenomenal or mental 'stuff' instead, that realize the phenomenal appearance of the cosmos and to which the appearance of the universe as a whole corresponds. 

This can in a basic way explain that we seem to share the same context (the key world there being 'seem to'), and that world unfolds independently of egoic volition, and that there are strong correlations between brain states and subjective states. 

In case you want a more rigorous explanation I can do that to. 

But some of my assumptions is that we can explain the metaphysics and ontology of reality in a basic logical way to some non-trivial degree which at least partially reveals truth. 

And I'm also assuming that we need to infer soemthing beyond our 'individual consciousnesses' to make sense of and explain things. 

But I don't understand what you mean by causalities in this context. Can you please clarify? And then I'll happily answer. 

And I don't exactly know what you mean by 'linearly'. You mean like to logic-oriented or something? 

And sure there's no tree. But the appearances that constitute that which I'm calling a tree seems hard to deny. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by High-valance

[remember]

@High-valance there is no whole without the sum total of its substance.

i like the way of how you describe influx.

Edited July 28, 2020 by remember

[High-valance]

1 minute ago, remember said:

@High-valance there is no whole without the sum total of its substance.

Okay sure. I don't get your point. 

Are you gonna answer my questions as well? 

[remember]

7 minutes ago, High-valance said:

Okay sure. I don't get your point. 

Are you gonna answer my questions as well? 

already did.

if there are more and you’d want to ask me, we‘ll see.

Edited July 28, 2020 by remember

[High-valance]

1 hour ago, remember said:

already did.

if there are more and you’d want to ask me, we‘ll see.

Well the question I wanted an answer for was 'what do you mean by causalities in this context?' I don't see how you've answered that question. You said 'there is no whole without the sum total of its substance'. I don't see how that's an answer to the question. You don't have to answer. You do whatever you want of course, but insofar as you are willing to answer then it doesn't seem to me like you have answered the question.

Edited July 28, 2020 by High-valance

[remember]

1 hour ago, High-valance said:

Well the question I wanted an answer for was 'what do you mean by causalities in this context?' I don't see how you've answered that question. You said 'there is no whole without the sum total of its substance'. I don't see how that's an answer to the question.

yes, why do you think that way?

[Gesundheit]

@remember do you ever really say anything? I just see word salads under the name remember. Okay I get it I should eat more salad, what else? Lol

[remember]

@Gesundheit maybe wear a mask if you got a cold.

[Gesundheit]

@remember done

[remember]

@Gesundheit

[electroBeam]

On 26/07/2020 at 7:16 PM, Leo Gura said:

Everything is imaginary, but that does not mean you get to imagine whatever you want.

By your silly logic I should be able to turn into a dragon on command and shoot fireballs out my ass.

What you're missing is that Leo's ego is not in control. I could die tomorrow of cancer and none of that would contradict my metaphysics, since God is a tautology, God -- paradoxically -- cannot change anything about himself, and is perfect no matter what happens.

It is the ego which thinks it can control reality and have all its wishes fulfilled. Awakening does not grant you control over reality. It merely surrenders you to whatever reality happens to be.

If an enlightened person breaks his leg, he must go to a traditional doctor to fix it. He can't just wish it away. And yet, that broken leg is of course imaginary. Just because something is imaginary does not mean that ego gets to control it.

Make no mistake about it, when your health deteriorates enough, your entire life will crumble. Doesn't matter how enlightened you are. Your ability to live is 100% contingent on good health -- which could go at any moment for a thousand different reasons.

You could get hit by a bus tomorrow. And enlightenment will not save you from that.

 

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a false and dangerous to assume we all share the same reality. We do not.

Those 2 statements contradict themselves. Not in thought, or belief or philosophy, but in reality. 

During awakening, your reality actually changes, your paradigm changes. You don't just realise materialism is an illusion, but then materialism stays, materialism ceases to exist. Materialism was never there in the first place. 

Once you realise the Hellenistic model of the universe is wrong, your reality changes, and the sun ceases to stop revolving around the earth. 

Before awakening, you have thyroid problems because of atoms in the body doing biological things, after awakening, you don't have a thyroid problem caused by biological stuff occuring. You realise and have a deeper insight into what's actually going on, just like if you were in the 1500s and you were trying to go to mars in a spaceship but your rocket kept getting out of wack due to orbits behaving weirdly, revealing that the earth revolves around the sun rather than the reverse, reveals insight and better clarity to help you overcome the challenge of getting to mars. 

 

So no, reality doesn't just stay the same after awakening, a new perspective emerges which gives you a deeper understanding about your problems. It amazes me how seriously you take materialism and traditional western doctors having done lots of 5 meo. Awakening literally opens you up to new modalities of healing and insight into health issues, and reveals to you how western doctors have totally missed the mark. 

Sure you don't get to change reality to the way the ego wants, but reality does change, and you do enter new paradigms. 

From Ramana's perspective, he didn't get skin cancer. From his POV, skin cancer wouldnt have even been a thing. Its like each cell has an ego, then one day one cell wakes up to being the entire body. If that cell dies, the Leo cell goes "awakening couldnt stop that cell dying, so that says something" well that cell didn't die because that cell is the body. That cell no longer knew what dying as a cell was even like. Do you think about cells in your body dying? No, you dont even notice it.

Edited July 28, 2020 by electroBeam

[Gesundheit]

44 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

So no, reality doesn't just stay the same after awakening, a new perspective emerges which gives you a deeper understanding about your problems. It amazes me how seriously you take materialism and traditional western doctors having done lots of 5 meo. Awakening literally opens you up to new modalities of healing and insight into health issues, and reveals to you how western doctors have totally missed the mark. 

Sure you don't get to change reality to the way the ego wants, but reality does change, and you do enter new paradigms. 

Correct. But don't go celebrate just yet 

[Display_Name]

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

@remember do you ever really say anything? I just see word salads under the name remember. Okay I get it I should eat more salad, what else? Lol

the Ignore function has been a blessing since I discovered it.

made this forum a lot more tolerable.

the user you're responding to was one of the first additions on there.

[Fadl]

No one can cure his/her illness, but God can(a miracle). Illnesses are caused by two main reasons, 1-it could be the Karma 2- it could be a bonus from God.

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Display_Name said:

the Ignore function has been a blessing since I discovered it.

made this forum a lot more tolerable.

the user you're responding to was one of the first additions on there.

Hmm... I have a massive crush on her. She is scary woke/smart. Like in Alice in Wonderland, some people around here seem to talk in nonsense sometimes. We're all mad here. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by mandyjw

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Hmm... I have a massive crush on her. She is scary woke/smart. Like in Alice in Wonderland, some people around here seem to talk in nonsense sometimes. We're all mad here. 

its a he

[mandyjw]

10 hours ago, electroBeam said:

its a he

No no, remember is a girl. 

[electroBeam]

@mandyjw

woops mixed her up with @Username they both sound the same haha.