Motivation From Rock Bottom

[Gesundheit]

@28 cm unbuffed I am talking about the real actual physical death. Not the death of the ego-mind. Ego-death, while interesting, is still something that occurs in the dream. I am talking about the end of the dream once and for all without return.

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Gesundheit that's something granted, it's fascinating and all, but I would not focus on it, as it will happen anyway, right?

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, 28 cm unbuffed said:

@Gesundheit that's something granted, it's fascinating and all, but I would not focus on it, as it will happen anyway, right?

Sure. I always prefer an empty mind with nothing to focus on.

And now we're back on track, because an empty mind does not generate motivation.

How can I convince myself to change this preference? I don't fucking know!

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Gesundheit empty mind is actually something great that many people work years for, you should be grateful for that.

Now, when you're mind is empty, let go, let the God/flow/life do the work through you and see what happens. 

Trust, that it knows better than you and your ego-mind, about what you really want and love. Watch the character performing it's act and trust that it will lead you, to where you ultimately want to be. That it's intelligence is much more powerful than yours. See miracles in your life.

Let go, start doing, let it flow.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by 28 cm unbuffed

[Gesundheit]

@28 cm unbuffed thank you. I have all that into place, although I forget from time to time. Yet here I am without motivation, and that's not a bad thing and I'm not pissed off nor suffering. I take all that with acceptance. Yet here I am and nothing is changing.

I have a severe traumatic past so that may be the cause. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this trying to understand it. We'll see where things go.

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Gesundheit

That's just a cortisol addiction, your body and mind were conditioned, that you need some trigger or some temporary high to get results. That was a backwards motivation, out of desperation, running away from something, not after something. That's being a rat, not a human. 

I get that, I have fucked up past behind me too, like the worst shit, trust me. 

You get the best results when you are fully peaceful, relaxed, one with reality and in a flow state, watch Michael Jordan's interviews about that f.e, he calls it "being in a zone". When you can get that state for hours and get one with nature, man, you are going to get great results in life.

Good luck!

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by 28 cm unbuffed

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7

Thoughts which don’t feel good arise, and are adhered to, believed, and expressed without considering they aren’t true. Daily morning meditation, working up to an hour a day, is the means of letting thoughts go & not believing or reacting to them (returning focus to breathing from the stomach & relaxing the body crown to toes). This empties out emotional misunderstanding. As it empties out...one let’s it go, focusing on breathing & relaxing....or one ‘jumps at the thoughts’, believing them, and reinforces the suffering of believing thoughts about oneself which do not feel good.

It’s a nasty cycle of believing there is something wrong with you, skipping letting it go now simply because of how it feels...and venturing in all directions for something to fix, what only letting go can resolve. Put more simply, there are no problems, other than the insistence that there is a problem, and that the problem is you / something is wrong with you. That, is “the problem”, and it feels terrible simply because it’s not true at all. 

When this cycle is happening at a more all pervasive all life encompassing level, it is most often related to a fundamental staple of ‘who I am”. Identity in regard to gender, sexuality, etc. Fully embracing, accepting, and loving whatever that notion of ‘who I am’ is, is the key. Realizing any conditions upon self acceptance, self love, and happiness - you are believing. They aren’t true, they are belief. The contrary approach is avoiding feeling, suppressing, etc - which is the believing of the thoughts. That is the means of emotional suppression. Believing and sharing “I am a loser” is the quintessential example. Why believe that when it feels terrible?  

This has become the norm for you apparently, to such a degree, that I would suggest 1 to 3 months of literally nothing but well being & letting old thought habitual patterns play out. Lots of emotional releases. A complete ‘zooming out’ of literally everything so that you can let go enough to see the Forrest from the trees again. Or don’t meditate every morning with proper technique, and release the emotional judgements & misunderstanding. But at least acknowledge to yourself that’s all that’s going on, and that is fundamental ordinary ego & suffering. Not something unique to you, nor special, nor is it a ‘problem’.  Hope you take that in the liberate yourself from this shit, loving manor it is meant. 

There is likely a deep seated fear that if you let go of thoughts & perspectives, and relax / focus on breathing, feeling, seeing & hearing...that you’ll experience who you really are...and that it will be terrible. But that fear is unjustified. It’s just from repeating so many thoughts about you - which don’t feel good - to you. Ultimately, one who does not put feeling great first, suffers. I would be writing in a journal about how you feel right now, and only right now, everyday. As always, I think you’re great, and I hope you let go of your self-beliefs enough to see this. I hope you see you like I do. You’re very loving, charismatic, capable, and funny, imo. Just got layers / beliefs upon that to let go of. 

[Raptorsin7]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Thoughts which don’t feel good arise, and are adhered to, believed, and expressed without considering they aren’t true. Daily morning meditation, working up to an hour a day, is the means of letting thoughts go & not believing or reacting to them (returning focus to breathing from the stomach & relaxing the body crown to toes). This empties out emotional misunderstanding. As it empties out...one let’s it go, focusing on breathing & relaxing....or one ‘jumps at the thoughts’, believing them, and reinforces the suffering of believing thoughts about oneself which do not feel good.

I understand this is the issue, but i've been on this single point for months now and it's not clicking. I try to meditate and then i just give up, keep attention on thinking, or finish a session but i never get any emotional release through sitting and breathing. 

The closest thing that's worked is breathing with LSD, but i don't know what that was now. The bliss and full relaxation of the head only came from being high as a kite plus trying to relax.

I have no idea how to actually relax, and neither does anyone in my immediate family. I'm going to see a psychiatrist in the coming weeks, and i'll likely get either lithium or prozac, i've heard prozac is good for relaxing so i bet all this stuff will work better with the added effect of an antidepressant.

 

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s a nasty cycle of believing there is something wrong with you, skipping letting it go now simply because of how it feels...and venturing in all directions for something to fix, what only letting go can resolve. Put more simply, there are no problems, other than the insistence that there is a problem, and that the problem is you / something is wrong with you. That, is “the problem”, and it feels terrible simply because it’s not true at all. 

I have the belief though. I am in that condition as we speak, and trying to sit down and meditate to let it go has done virtually nothing for me over the past 6 months in providing lasting relief. 

I really don't think i can work out that belief and feeling just by myself. I've tried and i end up on a roller coaster of improvement, only to end up back where i started or worse off.

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

When this cycle is happening at a more all pervasive all life encompassing level, it is most often related to a fundamental staple of ‘who I am”. Identity in regard to gender, sexuality, etc. Fully embracing, accepting, and loving whatever that notion of ‘who I am’ is, is the key. Realizing any conditions upon self acceptance, self love, and happiness - you are believing. They aren’t true, they are belief. The contrary approach is avoiding feeling, suppressing, etc - which is the believing of the thoughts. That is the means of emotional suppression. Believing and sharing “I am a loser” is the quintessential example. Why believe that when it feels terrible?

I internalize and personalize a lot, everything in my life has always come down to who I am, judging aspects as either positive or negative. But i don't know how to find all the beliefs, and then just stop believing them. 

Saying to myself I am a good person, vs saying i am a loser, doesn't produce that much of a difference in feeling. 

I think it comes back to the avoidance and suppression of feeling. I know i do this, i have all sorts of behavioral ticks like scratching, leg shaking etc that are all about avoiding feelings, but being aware doesn't get me any closer to fixing it. 

I've spoken to a psychoanalyst, and she told me a key to success in therapy is forming an emotional relationship, where the person is comfortable expressing and feeling emotions, and success is influenced by how much a person has the capacity to and is willing to feel into their emotions. 

I really think this is something I need to do and will benefit be more than anything else. My relationship with my parents is emotionless. Both my parents are emotionally immature, and i've never had a relationship with another human being that was emotionally sensitive and completely open. I've got the point before here from people on the forum, i think what i need is therapy, not enlightenment and advanced self help. My base is fucked, and it's like everything else i do is adding stuff on quicksand. Until the base is affirmed nothing will stick.

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

This has become the norm for you apparently, to such a degree, that I would suggest 1 to 3 months of literally nothing but well being & letting old thought habitual patterns play out. Lots of emotional releases. A complete ‘zooming out’ of literally everything so that you can let go enough to see the Forrest from the trees again. Or don’t meditate every morning with proper technique, and release the emotional judgements & misunderstanding. But at least acknowledge to yourself that’s all that’s going on, and that is fundamental ordinary ego & suffering. Not something unique to you, nor special, nor is it a ‘problem’.  Hope you take that in the liberate yourself from this shit, loving manor it is meant. 

I can't really travel anywhere right now because of Covid, but i'm going to start doing intensive psychotherapy for 3-4 times a week for the foreseeable future. The foreseeable future is just that for me. I'm going to try and get a job with my family, and just spend virtually all time outside of work to address these issues. Who knows how long it will take, but i got nothing else to do in this life time, and whenever i solve it, i'll have the second half of my life to finally be a whole and functioning human being.

 

I've seen/heard the script of therapy and meds working well for lots of people. A balanced mind, with energy and some will power, if i can get that from therapy and meds and live my life then it's a win in my book. 

[Loving Radiance]

21 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I try to meditate and then i just give up, keep attention on thinking, or finish a session

Ime it helps to have faith in coming back to yourself. Be with yourself and see yourself when going on autopilot mode.

21 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

My relationship with my parents is emotionless. Both my parents are emotionally immature, and i've never had a relationship with another human being that was emotionally sensitive and completely open.

Yeah try that out. It feels healing for me to have this kind of relationship.

@Nahm It's hilarious. It happened for weeks now that I read some of your lines, have an epiphany, want to ask you and the answer comes out of nothing without writing anything. How come that I already know what I intuitively want to know? I dunno, if it's infinite intelligence or hell what.

[Nahm]

39 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I understand this is the issue, but i've been on this single point for months now and it's not clicking. I try to meditate and then i just give up, keep attention on thinking, or finish a session but i never get any emotional release through sitting and breathing. 

Instead of giving up ... you just return attention to breathing from the stomach, and relax the body. Gravity basically does that for you. You’re just not-tensing really, not resisting gravity. That’s it. When you quit, it’s to avoid feeling. I believe you that you aren’t recognizing that. Doesn’t matter really, just don’t quit & be willing to feel however you feel. Meditation isn’t even an effort, or a doing, really...so there isn’t really a ‘quitting’. It’s just sitting there relaxing and lightly focusing on breathing. Quitting is avoidance. What’s being avoided is feeling. 

39 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The closest thing that's worked is breathing with LSD, but i don't know what that was now. The bliss and full relaxation of the head only came from being high as a kite plus trying to relax.

The bliss and relaxation came from you, is you. The lsd quited the mind. It ‘works’, is helpful, but is not needed. 

39 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I have no idea how to actually relax, and neither does anyone in my immediate family. I'm going to see a psychiatrist in the coming weeks, and i'll likely get either lithium or prozac, i've heard prozac is good for relaxing so i bet all this stuff will work better with the added effect of an antidepressant.

You could google how to relax. There are virtually countless ways to go about it.  You can make a fist right now and feel the tension of the contraction of the muscles...and then un-fist and feel the muscles relax. Do that with your whole body. Stand up and tense every muscles at the same time as much as possible...then let go and feel the relaxation. Then you would know relaxation via direct experience. It’s simple like that. Don’t think about it. It requires no thinking. 

48 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I have the belief though. I am in that condition as we speak, and trying to sit down and meditate to let it go has done virtually nothing for me over the past 6 months in providing lasting relief. 

No. You quit. Not trying to poke you in the eye...but this kinda must be said, must be realized. Notice the temptation to blame, when truly - you quit. That feeling is emotion to be released. It’s up to you to let the blame meditation isn’t working thinking perspective go. When you do, emotion releases. When that occurs, thought stories arise, opportunities to blame, resent, be mad at someone, regret something, worry about something, etc, etc. Return attention to breathing from the stomach instead of pursuing those thoughts / perspectives. Learn to let them (thought) go. Learn to let emotion out. You can do this. Technically, it is non-doing. The body releases automatically. The natural nature of thought is appearing & disappearing. Technically, you’re struggling with not doing. You answer is typically more doing, and clearly you have tried that and it doesn’t work. Suffering has a way of opening minds to practices of non-doing, relaxation and feeling. 

48 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I really don't think i can work out that belief and feeling just by myself. I've tried and i end up on a roller coaster of improvement, only to end up back where i started or worse off.

You refuse to let thoughts go, because you’re avoiding feeling. If you simple sat with it, you’d experience the emotions, and some outpouring. But that’s it. It’s not like monsters come out of the closet and eat you. If you video taped the whole thing, it’d be so boring you wouldn’t even watch it. But do whatever feels best to you, the path of least resistance. You can approach this solo, and you can talk with anyone you want about it. All in the name of liberation & well being really, all Good. 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I internalize and personalize a lot, everything in my life has always come down to who I am, judging aspects as either positive or negative. But i don't know how to find all the beliefs, and then just stop believing them. 

Broken record here I know, but the body so to speak naturally empties if you just sit down long enough. Don’t fear it man, it worth it. It feels great to let it all go, cry some shit out. No big deal. It’s far better to get stung by a bee, than to live in fear of bees. 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Saying to myself I am a good person, vs saying i am a loser, doesn't produce that much of a difference in feeling. 

Very tempting to call you a loser here so you can feel the relativity and realize that statement is just nonsense, but you really are a good person, and I love ya and I digress.  

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think it comes back to the avoidance and suppression of feeling. I know i do this, i have all sorts of behavioral ticks like scratching, leg shaking etc that are all about avoiding feelings, but being aware doesn't get me any closer to fixing it. 

Yes it does. Let go of the “fixing” mindset, and welcome the letting go mindset. If a marble was stuck in a garden hose, it wouldn’t be “broke” and need “fixing” to get the flow going...just the releasing of the marble would be ample. There is a source, and you want that flow. To “get it”, accept counter intuitive suggestions, like meditating every morning and letting go. No quitting. Just returning to breathing from the stomach. There’s no report card, no getting it right or wrong. 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I've spoken to a psychoanalyst, and she told me a key to success in therapy is forming an emotional relationship, where the person is comfortable expressing and feeling emotions, and success is influenced by how much a person has the capacity to and is willing to feel into their emotions. 

I really think this is something I need to do and will benefit be more than anything else. My relationship with my parents is emotionless. Both my parents are emotionally immature, and i've never had a relationship with another human being that was emotionally sensitive and completely open. I've got the point before here from people on the forum, i think what i need is therapy, not enlightenment and advanced self help. My base is fucked, and it's like everything else i do is adding stuff on quicksand. Until the base is affirmed nothing will stick.

For sure, that can only help. In a nutshell, it’s expression. If another person helps that, great. You can utilize the best of both worlds so to speak. You can do this solo too, by writing about how you feel. However that is, and what you write doesn’t actually matter...learning to express it, let it out, is the point. You are the “base” and you are Good. When thoughts arise about yourself that don’t feel good, let them go. Express them if it’s helpful, but don’t believe them. Really try your absolute best to catch yourself doing this - and flip the script. Give yourself some love. If you think “my base is fucked”, reach for a better feeling thought. Even if it feels a tiny bit better...you’re going in that better feeling direction, toward the love & clarity you really are. Momentum of feeling better builds. Eventually is is the default, and there is emptying of emotions along the way. 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I can't really travel anywhere right now because of Covid, but i'm going to start doing intensive psychotherapy for 3-4 times a week for the foreseeable future. The foreseeable future is just that for me. I'm going to try and get a job with my family, and just spend virtually all time outside of work to address these issues. Who knows how long it will take, but i got nothing else to do in this life time, and whenever i solve it, i'll have the second half of my life to finally be a whole and functioning human being.

Godspeed. You can do this letting go.       Just a misc thought...airbnb’s secluded in the woods, I’ve found to be ideal. Alone in nature is best, imo. I think they have some kind of COVID cleaned guarantee or something or other close to that, idk. There’s still risk of course, and up to you, just thought I’d mention it cause that’s what I’d do. Being around anyone, especially at home / with same people or family can trigger same stuff, same reactions, same patterns. I always preferred pure alone, not uttering a word for days or weeks. Whatever works for you though. 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 

I've seen/heard the script of therapy and meds working well for lots of people. A balanced mind, with energy and some will power, if i can get that from therapy and meds and live my life then it's a win in my book. 

I agree. Just want ya feelin good, happy, having fun, thriving. ?? 

[Raptorsin7]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Godspeed. You can do this letting go.       Just a misc thought...airbnb’s secluded in the woods, I’ve found to be ideal. Alone in nature is best, imo. I think they have some kind of COVID cleaned guarantee or something or other close to that, idk. There’s still risk of course, and up to you, just thought I’d mention it cause that’s what I’d do. Being around anyone, especially at home / with same people or family can trigger same stuff, same reactions, same patterns. I always preferred pure alone, not uttering a word for days or weeks. Whatever works for you though. 

This is a good idea, and something I haven't tried really ever. 

I'll give this one a shot, I like the idea of pure solitude.

Maybe all the stuff you've been saying will be seen in a different light when i'm completely alone, without any distractions.

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Raptorsin7

Try that for relaxation: 

It helped me a lot, in just couple of days, good luck!