Afghanistan War Exposed

[Milos Uzelac]

@Heart of Space You dirty panda ?

[Annoynymous]

24 minutes ago, Zak said:

@Annoynymous Cool. Where are you from btw?

And also there is an Indian movie made about Panipat where he invades some tribe in India and win the battle.

That's where the collapse of Afghanistan starts. Just right after his death. 

I am from Bangladesh. 

I am not a big fan of nationalistic Indian movies you know.

They tend to be bias and sometimes full of factual error.

I know a lot about Afghanistan and its issues. Life can be very difficult there

Lots of love for you,  brother

[Carl-Richard]

That was really well-made. 10/10

 

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I revert back to stage brown in spiral dynamics every time Abby Martin is on the screen if you know what I'm sayin'

Man that really hit me . Yeah I agree, Abby Martin is a snack.

[Jacobsrw]

On 24/07/2020 at 10:17 PM, Leo Gura said:

Good work by Abby Martin.

 

Hypocritical nationalism at its finest.

Two words: greed and fear.

Its appalling how destructive America’s campaigns have been (especially Trumps). They’ve simply strong armed the Afghanistan into a submission which allows the US to over extend its power. 

The irony is, all this disruption to the Afghanistan only further effects international development. The more the these countries are repressed the more they suffer and the weight is taxed on the rest of the globe.
 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Zak]

46 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

They’ve simply strong armed the Middle East into a submission which allows the US to over extend its power. 

Just so you know, Afghanistan is not a middle eastern country.

[Jacobsrw]

48 minutes ago, Zak said:

Just so you know, Afghanistan is not a middle eastern country.

Thanks for the correction I got my geography confused for some reason I had Syria in my head 

[Lindsay]

I’m so ignorant. This went down while I was still in elementary school so it totally went over my head. I never gave the wars overseas any thought. Too busy gossiping about childish things. I didn’t get into politics or modern history until very recently after I had my first child at 26. It’s disturbing to think that my country bombs civilians for profit. ?

[zeroISinfinity]

On 25.7.2020. at 2:30 AM, Lyubov said:

this was the country before foreign influences. in order for the country to defend itself it had to coalesce around authoritarian and fundamentalist values.

Added to dreamboard. Newsreporter too. Boris Malagurski hell no. 

War in Afghanistan=heroin. What else. 

[Yog]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:52 PM, Milos Uzelac said:

@Yog Appreciate sharing this here since I live in this region. Though embarrassingly for myself I have only just couple of weeks ago watched the first documentary he did on the geopolitical background of the partition of the central republics of Fmr. Yugoslavia and the subsequent Kosovo War and NATO Intervention. 

My only criticisms of the first documentary as he displayed and made it available to a foreign audiences as well is the somewhat bias of exclusively fingerpointing the machinations of the outside big powers on which the federation was somewhat dependant on economicly while just side covering the dysfunctionality of the internal politics, the arrogance (e.g. rejecting an offer for Yugoslavia being economicly viable of joining the then European Economic Community (before it became a monetary union) in the 1990s right before the collapse and separation of the main states, which I think isn't mentioned in the first documentary) and lack of historical perspective at the time of the Communist aparatchicks and ruling nomenclatura in all of the republics and the fragility and some unpleasant historical facts swept under the rug, deliberately distorted and ignored for the purpose of keeping the cultural bonds intact that kept this alliance of peoples afloat.

A lot of blue thinking inside the country at the time of a surge of orange consciousness -based politics is my generalised assessment of why the Civil War went so badly and haywire as it did in the FSRY. 

And the author of these documentaries Boris Malagurski has cultivated I think this sorta of disempowering and unhelpful exclusivistic anti-globalization conspiritorial and fingerpointing outside at the world superpower for all the miseries that behested the former republics afterwards attitude amongst his domestic audiences, as I have shortly inferred by knowing and speaking with some of them and thus obfuscating them of the responsibilities for being critical, where it is due, at the actions their own countries are performing now, and that they themselves and their fellow countryman by stubbornly holding to some fairytale and feel-good beliefs and actions that are helping accumulate and reproduce some of the problems that are still setting them back and which are of their own doing. 

A paraphrase quote from a domestic social historian of the region: "Our people here have a self-destructive collective mentality tendency and value system in which one of the central tennets is paradoxically,is of proving your pride and worth to your communities by your ability to stubbornly and consistently, without stopping, hit the same tree with your head over and over again, even if its the wrong one - metaphorically speaking. "

Sorry for the delayed response man.
Yeah... I am from the same region too.

I have actually re watched the first and the second one recently.

I would agree on the bias that you see, I noticed it too, but I would not put much weight on it, it seems like 60/40 bias to me, might be wrong. It seems like he was aiming for an objective representation and got carried a bit away in the process of making it. Maybe his research wasn't complete, maybe he didn't all have the data, maybe he had a bit of Yugo-nostalgia in him idk.

Still, I find it quite precise, it touches a lot of topics that would be taboo in the west and repressed unconscious collective rage of the ex-Yugo people. This is where the second part of your post comes in... Idk how wise it is to poke into the collective unconscious of the Balkans... and revive these tempting us vs them group based narratives. It surely did create this "blame the west" victim culture in the last 30 years...luckily.... its dying out, or so I perceive.

I just hope that this place will be able to get into stable orange ... and that green gets delayed for at least 10 years.
 

[Opo]

On 8/18/2020 at 6:01 PM, Yog said:

I just hope that this place will be able to get into stable orange ... and that green gets delayed for at least 10 years.

 

I started seeing vegan ads on the street and thought it was great. 

Why would you want to delay green? 

And do you mean economical or cultural green? 

[Raze]

Here's a video that can give some background to Afghanistan's current state. Only things I don't like is I noticed an error when at the end he says the Taliban refused to give up Osama Bin Laden, they actually didn't, they offered to give him up but with some stipulations so the US refused. In addition I would like more detail about Massoud, he's a fascinating person and tried to warn the USA about 9/11 soon before it happened.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Raze

[zeroISinfinity]

@Opo @Yog You guys are from Balkans? "west balkans" it's new term. 

[Opo]

On 7/24/2020 at 5:00 PM, Yog said:

This is just a bit "geographically" off-topic. But it fits the narrative.

Its 2 long documentaries about the fall of Yugoslavia, the US, space programs, socialism, debt, the CIA, declassified documents ect.... its quite a sad story..

You might like these, especially if you live in the Balkan mess.
 

 

 

@Milos Uzelac This is straight up propaganda. Come on i expected more from you guys. 

I have watched 11 min and the movie is ideological as fuck. 

It represents Jugoslavia as utopia only that should start raising some flags. 

It says 600.000 people were killed in camps. Real number is 83.000 and when Tito came to power he used them to do the same. 

People at that time weren't some peace loving hippies. Whatever horrible stuff you can imagine was probably done by the both sides. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Opo

[Aspiraling Wizard]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:02 AM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Donald Trump is a sick man, he shows absolutely no remorse for all the war profiteering, civilian casualties abroad, minority suppression, etc...

He cares much more about his ego and approval ratings

He is a very sick man

Careful, you may be confusing stage red with mental illness, though Trump in particular may very well suffer from some form of it.

[Milos Uzelac]

6 hours ago, Opo said:

@Milos Uzelac This is straight up propaganda. Come on i expected more from you guys. 

I have watched 11 min and the movie is ideological as fuck. 

It represents Jugoslavia as utopia only that should start raising some flags. 

It says 600.000 people were killed in camps. Real number is 83.000 and when Tito came to power he used them to do the same. 

People at that time weren't some peace loving hippies. Whatever horrible stuff you can imagine was probably done by the both sides. 

Yeah we should probably discuss this topic in a private discussion or another thread since this the topic is intended for discussion about Afghanistan and the ongoing Afghanistan War. 

I would advise you to muster the  patience since at that 11 minute time stamp in the documentary I am pretty sure that he is still only going through a (I admit biased regarding some presentation of certain facts and events , since noneones chosen background perspective is perfect and without slight error though) historical recap of events, but slightly later in the doc he is main point is in detailing the availabile factual evidence about the role and interests that other powerful influences and centers of power in the world had in the dissolution and collapse of Yugoslavia, so his main point is in presenting the overarching narrative with his found evidence that the main great powers at that time were involved and had an interest in the break-up of Yugoslavia going in a certain direction and revealing why did they have that interest and incentive to want to that and be involved in helping that happen. 

The background history and historical data during and of Yugoslavia as country before it collapsed is a side issue in this doc and not the main point of the narrative. I advise not taking the whole doc because of it at face-value thinking that because of it everything else that is discussed is purely ideological (though ideological in it's meaning doesn't mean something is not the truth at all, it is rather a certain approach and relationship you have with certain topics) and detached from truth of the matter in this doc. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Opo]

@Milos Uzelac Okay il try watching the rest of the documentary. 

I think you get heated up because you accepted one side of the story without questioning it. 

I see people here that act in the same way they just have the opposite story. 

[Yog]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:01 AM, Opo said:

I started seeing vegan ads on the street and thought it was great. 

Why would you want to delay green? 

And do you mean economical or cultural green? 

Mostly cultural green. I do not think we can handle it yet. Economic is fine with me.

There is too much untamed collective rage in the collective unconscious. Focusing on these group identities might just re-awake some nasty stuff, ethnic identities being the prime, and religious, the secondary. A lot of stage red-blue around here, its a small place and a melting pot, we don't seem ready for it. At least that is what I think.

My idea is that we need to transcend and overcome these stage blue/red identities at stage orange only to re-explore and integrate them at green. ?

@zeroISinfinity I am from the center south! From the country that has no name, or is not allowed to have it, its standard Balkan messy stuff, you know.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Yog

[Opo]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

Mostly cultural green. I do not think we can handle it yet. Economic is fine with me.

There is too much untamed collective rage in the collective unconscious. Focusing on these group identities might just re-awake some nasty stuff, ethnic identities being the prime, and religious, the secondary. A lot of stage red-blue around here, its a small place and a melting pot, we don't seem ready for it. At least that is what I think.

My idea is that we need to transcend and overcome these stage blue/red identities at stage orange only to re-explore and integrate them at green. ?

@zeroISinfinity I am from the center south! From the country that has no name, or is not allowed to have it, its standard Balkan messy stuff, you know.

What do you mean by focusing on group identities? 

In my mind doing that is keeping us at blue. I don't think I understand. 

 

Do you think we will transcend red/blue by the time climate refugees start coming? 

I fear that if we don't we will return to fascism or communism. So many people here are on the edge they only need a little push. 

 

[Yog]

16 minutes ago, Opo said:

What do you mean by focusing on group identities? 

In my mind doing that is keeping us at blue. I don't think I understand.

Well both blue and green are collectivist stages, right. So it is natural for green to put at their focus a group identity. On the Balkans these group identities are mainly ethnicity, or religion, and a lot of them in a tiny space. So if we already do have dominant blue/red emergence of the current level of cultural green might just reinforce blue thinking and green being so critical and loud about oppression, minorities ect, it might as well help create, or give fuel to already lurking separatist, nationalist movements.

My point is, we don't want to get to a place where a person being a croat, serb, macedonian, albanian, bosnian, monte-negrian, kosovian, slovenian ... ect is somehow important, this is what orange does ofc.

Note that it is probably better in Croatia and Slovenia, you guys seem a bit ahead. But Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo... it can get bloody way easier i think.

23 minutes ago, Opo said:

 

Do you think we will transcend red/blue by the time climate refugees start coming? 

 

I fear that if we don't we will return to fascism or communism. So many people here are on the edge they only need a little push. 

 

I do not think we have, I fear the same thing. That is why I think pushing into individualist orange is important. My prime reason being psychological, its that orange sees another human as a unique case, as an individual, this drastically reduces the chance that we get ethnically based flocking if shit hits the fan. Its a surface level analysis ofc, but you probably sense what am I aiming at.

On the other hand, I think economical green will be easier to pass here than lets say in the US. Energetic, environmental, food, issues also have bigger potential.

[Epikur]