Why must life be so counterintuitive?

[Elshaddai]

I see alot of posts lately on the counterintuitive nature of life and started watching Leo's video on the subject. Now I didn't finish it yet so maybe he answered it in the video but why must life be counterintuitive? Why can't it be intuitive?

Why can't humans be born and clearly and accurately know everything they need to know and do in life in order to be happy, successful and prosperous?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Elshaddai

[Leo Gura]

It's a great question.

The answer is, because reality is an illusion. It can only exist as an illusion, so consciousness must trick and deceive itself into buying into a material world.

Just for birth to occur a great trick must be played on you.

You see, if God didn't trick itself, God would be fully awake and fully omniscient. And so there could not be life or material reality.

If you knew everything there is to know about life, you'd be dead

You are playing a game of hide and seek with yourself.

[mandyjw]

Counter-intuitive simply means that it's not what you think it would be. True intuition is more feeling realm than thinking realm. So when we say intuition and use the word counter-intuitive we almost refer to what you think you know. True intuition is a deeper knowing beyond what you think you are. We're so quick to believe thoughts and believe that we know the way things are, so that's why doing what is counter-intuitive (the opposite of what you think will work) can be so fruitful. 

[Elshaddai]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Just for birth to occur and great trick must be played on you.

What do you mean exactly? How is  being born a trick that reality plays on us?

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You see, if God didn't trick itself, God would be fully awake and fully omniscient. And so there could not be life or material reality.

But how come material reality hinges upon god deceiving itself? can't god who created all things be omniscient and create reality as we know it at the same time?

57 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

We're so quick to believe thoughts and believe that we know the way things are, so that's why doing what is counter-intuitive (the opposite of what you think will work) can be so fruitful. 

I agree. That right there I think is and has been a huge cause of suffering in my life and why I thought life is hard and cruel(although at times I still think that, in my darker moments).

[Sempiternity]

The answer to all this is you need to awaken to find out for yourself. Nothing anyone says is going to be a satisfying answer, as everyone is part of the illusion that you (God) are creating. So you are essentially asking a character in your dream why you are dreaming the dream you are in why the dream is the way it is. See how that can't work. Only when you wake from the dream can you understand that it was all meaningless, just an experience you dreamt up to experience. Nothingness imaging somethingness. So if you want answers, do the work to awaken from the dream (the how has been documented at great length on this site). Then you can go about the rest of your dream (life) knowing why it is the way it is, and can sit back and enjoy the dream for what it is. 

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Elshaddai said:

What do you mean exactly? How is  being born a trick that reality plays on us?

Well, you see, you were never born. You have existed forever. So to be born, you had to imagine that you didn't previously exist.

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But how come material reality hinges upon god deceiving itself?

Because God is Pure Infinity, which is formless and nothing.

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can't god who created all things be omniscient and create reality as we know it at the same time?

No, because you are asking for a contradiction. You asking asking God to create a cat which is actually a dog. Even God cannot do that. You must be clear and consistent about what you want God to create. You can't ask for a cat and then complain that it doesn't look like a dog.

For reality to exist as you know it, God has to fool itself into looking at reality in a narrow, finite way. Which means God has to trick itself into not being omniscient. How can God trick itself that it isn't God so that it could experience reality from some other position other than God? You see how challenging that is for God to do? So God's trick must be extremely clever, otherwise God will see right through it and the illusion of immateriality will collapse before it even gets off the ground. This is why all of reality is so sneaky and deceptive. Material reality hinges on the sneakiness of consciousness. If consciousness wasn't being sneaky, material reality would collapse just like waking up from a dream. The dreamer must be entranced by the dream in order to dream.

[Florian]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

No, because you are asking for a contradiction. You asking asking God to create a cat which is actually a dog. Even God cannot do that. You must be clear and consistent about what you want God to create. You can't ask for a cat and then complain that it doesn't look like a dog.

 

Brainfuck. Why can't god do that? Isnt it like that already? Aren't you just deceiving yourself that god can't do that just like you are explaining it?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Florian said:

Brainfuck. Why can't god do that?

Because God is Truth. And Truth cannot be other than what it is.

A = A

A != B

When you ask A to equal B, you are committing an act of devilry or illusion.

[Florian]

@Leo Gura Man.. I feel like if I really would want to understand this now I could but I have such a big resistance against it I don't even want to read what you wrote again and think about it. I just want to keep living my life how it is and keep having my illusion of chasing my life purpose and achieving the things I want first. Please don't kill me Leo

[wwhy]

40 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Only when you wake from the dream can you understand that it was all meaningless, just an experience you dreamt up to experience.

 

40 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Then you can go about the rest of your dream (life) knowing why it is the way it is, and can sit back and enjoy the dream for what it is. 

So I wake from the dream, but at the same time still continue dreaming?

Also, why was it meaningless? What then, is meaningful?

Edited July 23, 2020 by wwhy

[blankisomeone]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The dreamer must be entranced by the dream in order to dream.

Is awakening like having a lucid dream, where you're conscious that it's a dream but you're still in it?

I had a very dark dream the other day. In the dream, I was on the top of a mountain watching from a distance as there was a long row of about a hundred people that looked like they had just come out of a mental hospital (they were bald, their skins looked purpleish, they were wearing hospital gowns, they had bruises on their skin, and their eyes were locked and lifeless). They were robotically walking to the edge of the mountain, picking up a rope that was on the ground, and commiting collective suicide. When they all did it, another group of a hundred people came and did the same. Then another group, then another group, and on and on it went for a while. It felt like a very dark presence was in the air that was driving those people to do those things.

I have no fucking idea how my brain just came up with that while I was asleep. I never have nightmares like that. My dreams are usually just me talking to my friends and doing random shit like flying or whatever. But this one was so freaky.

I was very scared in the dream, but then I suddenly somehow realized it was a dream and became conscious in it. I started to shout at everyone that it was just a dream and I was asking them to stop that insanity, because it's just a dream and there was no reason to be hurting themselves like that. But that didn't help, they continued doing it. I had no control over them, even though it was my own dream.

So, yeah, back to the question: is awakening like having a lucid dream, where you're conscious that it's a dream but you're still in it?

Another dream I had, I was talking to a friend of mine, and then I suddenly stopped and asked him: man, life is so crazy, is it real? Then my friend said, thank God it's not real. Then I looked up at the sky and felt my consciousness expanding, transforming into a white light. Then I realized I was in a dream.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Florian said:

@Leo Gura Man.. I feel like if I really would want to understand this now I could but I have such a big resistance against it I don't even want to read what you wrote again and think about it. I just want to keep living my life how it is and keep having my illusion of chasing my life purpose and achieving the things I want first. Please don't kill me Leo

That's right, cause you are a devil

But also, don't worry. You can still achieve stuff after awakening. And your LP can be stronger. Look at Sadhguru. He's killing it with his LP.

[Florian]

@Leo Gura But something about what you wrote still seemed suspicious to me like you were still deluding yourself the way you described how god deludes himself/itself/myself idk. Idk might just be me projecting or just being wrong though of course.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, blankisomeone said:

Is awakening like having a lucid dream, where you're conscious that it's a dream but you're still in it?

Yes

Unless you become so conscious that you transcend then entire domain of form. At which point it's just a pure formless consciousness.

[Florian]

@Leo Gura thats right im a fcking devil so FUCK YOU GET AWAY WITH YOUR TRUTH (just kidding although kinda not lol)

[Leo Gura]

@Florian Find out what is true in your direct experience.

Believing my stories of God is useless.

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Elshaddai said:

I agree. That right there I think is and has been a huge cause of suffering in my life and why I thought life is hard and cruel(although at times I still think that, in my darker moments).

How can you know easy and kind if you don't know hard and cruel? The suffering is the illusion of duality and opposites which allow the Good to be. There are opposites but no opposition. Thinking veils and covers over the fundamental Good. Feeling discovers it but thinking says "don't go there, feeling is where hurt happens to me." 

Counter-intuitive. 

[Florian]

@Leo Gura Oh man this is really making me nervous right now. I'm just so lazy about this stuff idk I probaply will just let this "opportunity" slide again. I think one of the obstacles right now is that I want to be someone special in the sense that I could easily awaken and stuff but this is actually just standing in the way of the real truth of awakening.

[Leo Gura]

@Florian You are special. You're the one and only God.

What more could you want?

Stop worrying. God-consciousness is amazingly positive.

[Florian]

@Leo Gura But another question. If I would awaken could I still be following the life purpose of becoming the perfect fighter/boxer or would this melt away? I mean at first glance this seems like a "foul" life purpose. Not really "loving" and even though I think that I know that it is actually loving (I guess in the end it is loving regardless)  because of my background motives I'm still kinda unsure whether I am actually just deceiving myself with this life purpose. (I have a journal about my life purpose on this forum where I get deep into it, so if you have some time to waste you can read it)