My retort to those biased toward meditation only

[BipolarGrowth]

Trying to understand and experience God through a “sober” state of consciousness is like trying to hammer in a fence with your hand. Yes, you can do it, but why not use the proper tool?

[Carl-Richard]

People who hold valid concerns against psychedelics know about the danger of getting lost in the weeds so to speak, and they don't want to risk it. The meditation-only route is simpler on its surface (not easier), and that appeals to some people. You can do a lot of work with a hammer, but you can also hurt yourself with it. Then again, you have to take chances if you want to grow.

[nistake]

I prefer the simple and 'natural' way of doing it and I'm interested if I can pull this off without the use of psychedelics. I'm in this for the long run anyway.

By the way, I don't have anything against psychedelics, I'm just not that interesed in them. Might try them in the future, dunno.

[Demeter]

@Carl-Richard , what are the valid concerns other than addiction? Some psychedelics are not addictive so one could limit oneself to those.

Both meditation and psychedelics hold the danger of worsening one's state of mind, although no comparisons have been made.

Meditation, although a slower route, has the advantage of conferring additional benefits. Enlightening experiences through meditation are usually accompanied by developing other abilities, such as psychic or empathic. The raising of the kundalini through the chakras has the potential of developing abilities related to each chakra.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Demeter

[Carl-Richard]

@Demeter More surprises, more potential for chaos and delusion. Everything comes with a price.

[allislove]

Psychedelics are amazing for exploring different states of consciousness. There is an infinite amount of them.

Enlightenment is simply a realization of who you are, let go of the beliefs: "I will die", "I need something".
Does exploring different states of consciousness may help with realizing who you are? Yes, of course. 

The psychedelics road is not for everyone. The person should be mature enough. You have to have a strong desire for Truth. You have to be able to lose everything for nothing. It's not a magic pill. It's just the job of letting go must be done much faster. There is also a huge trap on psychedelics road. I call it "come&go". If the dose is big enough there is a chance for this trap. You will think that you go somewhere during the trip and then come back. You are here&now, this.

The psychedelics are one of the best tools for spiritual growth.

As Rupert Spira once said, meditation is not what you do, it's who you are. What you do is writing on this forum, who you are is everything (or nothing)  
I recommend psychedelics if the user is mature enough. I recommend psychedelics if the user doesn't have neediness to them.
I recommend psychedelics if the user just wants to do it for the sake of having fun in exploring yourself.
Psychedelics are amazing as an addition to meditation/yoga practice. It can deepen meditation so much. 

Not psychedelics VS meditation, psychedelics + meditation  

 

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Trying to understand and experience God through a “sober” state of consciousness is like trying to hammer in a fence with your hand. Yes, you can do it, but why not use the proper tool?

I’ve had a realization on psychedelics so amazing it was what got me out of bed every day for like 2 years. It reverberated all the way up to now, and I can still feel God looking through my eyes — I can become aware that God isn’t even 1 inch away, and I mean really feel it any time I choose. With that said, entering the first and second jhana was like 10x more empowering. Have you made it to the jhanas yet? It’s pleasure and happiness like you wouldn’t even believe. Tears of ecstasy.

[BipolarGrowth]

25 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I’ve had a realization on psychedelics so amazing it was what got me out of bed every day for like 2 years. It reverberated all the way up to now, and I can still feel God looking through my eyes — I can become aware that God isn’t even 1 inch away, and I mean really feel it any time I choose. With that said, entering the first and second jhana was like 10x more empowering. Have you made it to the jhanas yet? It’s pleasure and happiness like you wouldn’t even believe. Tears of ecstasy.

I am not familiar with the term jhana. Do you care to link me to a good source on the topic? I’m not sure if this is something I haven’t experienced or if it’s simply a new word for an experience I’ve already had. 

[The0Self]

7 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I am not familiar with the term jhana. Do you care to link me to a good source on the topic? I’m not sure if this is something I haven’t experienced or if it’s simply a new word for an experience I’ve already had. 

https://dharmaseed.org/retreats/4496/

http://www.leighb.com/jhanas.htm

It’s one of those things where you would go find out what just happened to you if it happened accidentally.

Edited July 23, 2020 by The0Self

[Jacobsrw]

6 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Trying to understand and experience God through a “sober” state of consciousness is like trying to hammer in a fence with your hand. Yes, you can do it, but why not use the proper tool?

And let the psychedelic and non-psychedelic user debate begin...

In all honesty though, I do agree. The current human psyche is so entrenched in delusion it’s almost inhuman to attain large leaps in growth through simply doing intermittent meditation. 

One needs to meditate for long periods at a time to match some of the other hardcore methods out there, such as psychedelics and breath work.

I love mediation but for the average human dedicated to this work its futile by itself.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[fridjonk]

Id say since we're using this fence analogy, using psychedelics is like using a hammer, doing it sober is like using fence-pliers. Both work and do the job, but one just takes a little more patience and time. 

[The0Self]

I firmly believe doing both is required for a balanced approach. I can imagine choosing only one and it’d be 100x less powerful than both combined.

[BipolarGrowth]

7 hours ago, The0Self said:

I firmly believe doing both is required for a balanced approach. I can imagine choosing only one and it’d be 100x less powerful than both combined.

This is precisely why I say “meditation only.” I think meditation and spiritual knowledge makes your trips have a spiritual aspect to them that might be missing for someone without a decent foundation. 

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This is precisely why I say “meditation only.” I think meditation and spiritual knowledge makes your trips have a spiritual aspect to them that might be missing for someone without a decent foundation. 

It works the other way around even more for me. The memory and realization of God-consciousness allows my meditation to go really, really deep. I haven’t been bored in meditation since I can remember. I remember ego-death and the breath begins to feel on each in breath as if God is pumping air into “my” lungs and I’m the air.

[seeking_brilliance]

I leisurely explore unlimited states of consciousness and I neither meditate nor take psychedelics ?‍♂️.  Although yes psychedelics would blast me into the next stratosphere 

[Consilience]

Doing both has radically shifted how I experience life. Both practices seem to feed off and enhance the other. One of the best integration tools and ways to go deeper into trips is through meditation, one of the best ways to deepen meditation is through psychedelics. Beautiful combo

[rav]

Meditation works. Nothing against psychedelics at all. They're great, too.

BUT! Hear (read) me out:

With meditation, you put in your own work so to say. With psychedelics, you rely on their force to take you to where you want to be.

And what is more satisfying? Walking or taking the train?

Love you all!