How do you view the relationship between the IDW and the left?

[Carl-Richard]

I want to get a better picture of what is really going on: 

• How would you define the IDW (and the left) in terms of values?
• What beefs or main points of disagreement do you feel are most important? 
• What does either side have to learn from each other?
• What are they both missing? 

The IDW would be people like Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin etc.. The left is vast, but to mention some people: Sam Seder, Michael Brooks (RIP), David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski, Vaush etc.. I'm also interested in especially Sam Harris' beef with Noam Chomsky (disagreements about foreign policy). What is really going on there? Is it a good example of this phenomena? Please sprinkle some SD into the analysis aswell  

[The0Self]

Ignore Dave Rubin, as he is the only one in that list who’s actually just in it for the money. Sam Harris is interesting. It’s like he’s equally in stage orange, green, and yellow. And his 1st person realization of buddha-mind and no-free-will is what saves him imo. He’s incredibly smart but seemingly SO arrogant and he drastically underestimates the knowledge of his detractors.

IDW: rationality > facts

Left: rationality < facts

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, The0Self said:

And his 1st person realization of buddha-mind and no-free-will is what saves him imo.

Realizes Buddha-mind.

Talks about blacks having low IQ with Charles Murray and inferiority of Muslims.

Denies God and Love.

- - - - - -

A true Buddha, Lol.

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, The0Self said:

Sam Harris is interesting. It’s like he’s equally in stage orange, green, and yellow.

These are my observations: Sam Harris' built his whole career on his reaction to 9/11, and his beef with Islam and leftist foreign policy stems from there. That made him very attached to the idea of the importance of beliefs and how they inform people's actions. The left is more concerned about how historical events determine the expression of those beliefs.

If Sam Harris used his own beliefs to analyse himself, he is opposed to Islam and the left because of his beliefs. If he were to use the left's analysis, he felt that 9/11 threatened his existence and responded by criticizing the beliefs of Islam and the left, and that made him express those particular beliefs.

More generally, Sam has adopted a more eurocentric lens as a survival response, which makes him at odds with worldcentric green. This ties into the "we need to protect western enlightenment values" sentiment that is so prevalent on the IDW.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Realizes Buddha-mind.

Talks about blacks having low IQ with Charles Murray and inferiority of Muslims.

Denies God and Love.

- - - - - -

A true Buddha, Lol.

Well... He seems to have gotten the requisite taste of nonduality. And definitely purports to have had realization into no self and no free will. Yeah... he’s still confused though lol

[Roy]

I was a big fan and follower of most of the IDW guys for a long time. Now that I'm not really invested in that or any community (besides this one I guess) the first and most important criticism I would levy against them is to calm the fuck down and start thinking about ways they could work with "the left" so we can find out how to move forward.

A lot of these guys are WAY too salty about losing some of their liberal audience over the past 10 years because of the Overton window shift, and are so obsessed with having absolute and unshakable attachment to Stage Oranges principles to the point where they don't even realize they are offering safe breeding grounds to these kind of "Neo-Libertarian" toxic whiners (Ben Shapiro type thinkers) that are so popular these days. They don't intentionally cause a lot of problems but they don't necessarily help anything either. This just gives free space for your traditional backwards Conservatives to do their work holding everything back longer than need be.

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What does either side have to learn from each other?

The IDW needs to take some of their own medicine and be "intellectually honest" about the place the left wants to go, instead of being lazy and assuming it's a communist revolution (hyperbole lol).

The Left needs to take a second to humble itself and check it's righteous behavior. Not everyone who doesn't agree with 100% of their political stances is automatically an enemy that's trying to hold society back.

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What are they both missing? 

Like every stage of Spiral Dynamics their own self-bias. They assume everyone should conform to their ideas. However no set of principles or ideas solves every problem we face. There is more than one way to skin a cat.