Toxic Masculinity Examples Mega-Thread

[Preety_India]

 

6 minutes ago, Natasha said:

I'm politically unbiased, but in this video Trump seems to vocalized what most men (and maybe some women too) would think but never say out loud, no? The toxic part is not him being politically incorrect by speaking what he thinks, but the motivation behind it - toxic competitiveness, putting others down to have an upper hand in a situation. He does it with male competitors as well, so it's not just limited to women. 

I understand that he does it to men as well. But there is a certain degree of dignity that any civil and gentleman is supposed to have towards women. 

Men hit men during fights in clubs. Is it okay for them to hit women during a fight? 

It's almost like saying that if a man hit a woman, then well he hits men too. That's no justification. He is a toxic masculine and that's why he hits both but it's more degrading when he hits women. 

There are ways to condemn a woman's behavior without being abusive or attacking her appearance. Because her appearance has nothing to do with character or behavior. But a toxic masculine man will always find a way to bully a woman 

And just because he does it to men, doesn't mean he should be doing it to women. That's flawed logic. With women the stakes are higher. 

Gender Equality calls for fair treatment not similar treatment. 

With women the rules are obviously different in a civilized society, this is done as a sign of respect to women. This has nothing to do with feminism or double standards. Any civilized society will condemn male aggression towards women. 

So him demeaning the women in the videos is absolutely outrageous,especially given that he is supposed to be a role model in the position of a president. 

Also him demeaning other men is no surprise, because, as he is a perfect embodiment of toxic masculinity, that's what he will do to men as well. Toxic masculine men not only damage women, they also sabotage other men in an effort to be the top chimp. 

 

[Gesundheit]

Feminism.

[Natasha]

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

And just because he does it to men, doesn't mean he should be doing it to women. That's flawed logic. With women the stakes are higher.

The flawed logic is to expect an orange to taste like an apple, to expect low consciousness to produce something of high consciousness. But I agree with you on the rest.

[Danioover9000]

@flowboy

On 7/23/2020 at 9:15 AM, flowboy said:

Alright, thank you for the explanation.

What is toxic about being Christian though? What is masculine about it? Spreading your belief system is not a masculine thing, it's a people thing.

Also word salad, misdirection, flowery language and disguise, I understand these criticisms but these things are not typically masculine. Men and women both use them often. I ascribe them more to politicians and intellectuals, whatever gender they may be.

When you say "toxic" I assume that people are getting hurt because of it. I don't see how Dan Bilzerian is hurting anyone. Let the frat boy be a frat boy. To each his own and all.

   Firstly, the problem isn't limited to sociology, but the essence of it. I think that the act of spreading one's belief is masculine. For example, priests were allowed to preach their religions to other lands and convert the other 'outsiders'. This attitude, literally and metaphorically, is you penetrating, mentally, an idea into other people's minds you think is right.

   Secondly, those techniques I would also say are rhetorical and for persuasion, to influence or to deflect, and both sexes can do these things to each other. Plenty of examples in informal social settings and in debate forums.

   Thirdly, by itself, the word 'toxic' can have many negative meanings, and are too general. Do you mean toxic as in poisonous? or as in 'toxic relationship' like in dysfunctional relationships? Here, the toxic is used as in 'toxic masculinity'. For example, machismo males are what I think of when I hear 'toxic masculinity', like criminal, sociopathic/psychopathic males that actually are dangerous (Ted Bundy, Charles Manson), and not the more subtle examples provided by Leo. It's important to keep context in mind, which is what I assume some of the users you've responded to are not keeping in mind, and why you responded the way you did, so no disagreement here.

    Lastly, are you a libertarian? Because those last few sentences makes more sense if you are, because they value individual freedoms, de-regulations, and property rights. However, here I do disagree because there are ramifications to every action. If we, as a society, left a frat boy to his own devices, without any repercussions, he would take advantage of the situation. If he became violent towards a boy, his justification would be in line with his freedom and right to do so because he is free to do so and he trespassed on his own property. If he assaulted a woman, and she pursued justice against him, his justification in his defense would be because she was violating his property rights of his own body, how she was touching him first, hence she's actually the one that surrendered her property rights of her body to him.

    

[Raphael]

It's probably not the most toxic example, but I was quite blown away by how dumb some of these guys were playing at times. It's like sometimes they don't want to do any efforts and just say the stupidest thing.

 

[Raphael]

I have cases of toxic masculinity in my family, notably:

• My dad, I saw him abusing my mom mostly verbally all my life
• An uncle that used to get drunk after work, go back home, beat his wife with a stick, and then rape her

[Preety_India]

@Raphael  sorry your mom had to deal with that. 

That's why toxic masculinity should be condemned and discouraged and women should be made aware of how to spot signs of toxic masculinity 

 

 

[Toby]

@Preety_India could you give examples of toxic masculinity in women - expectations or mindsets or world views women have about men?

[Preety_India]

@Toby  this thread is about toxic masculinity. Why are you trying to intentionally derail the thread? 

Start your own separate thread for other gender! 

 

[Toby]

I don't think you understand the concept of toxic masculinity. It also is about how society or women view men. If for example society or women think "a man shouldn't be weak or cry" then it's also to a form of toxic masculinity.

[Zigzag Idiot]

4 minutes ago, Toby said:

 

I don't think you understand the concept of toxic masculinity. It also is about how society or women view men. If for example society or women think "a man shouldn't be weak or cry" then it's also to a form of toxic masculinity.

 

Huh?

[Preety_India]

@Toby  that has already been discussed in the thread.. 

Give examples of male behavior that is toxic 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

ive known a few Doyle's 

[Preety_India]

 

8 minutes ago, Toby said:

I don't think you understand the concept of toxic masculinity. It also is about how society or women view men. If for example society or women think "a man shouldn't be weak or cry" then it's also to a form of toxic masculinity.

 

See, I get your point. I'm discussing this thread mainly for examples of male behaviors which are toxic 

Now society's perception of men and expectations is a different point. You are trying to flip the coin 

Society also has unhealthy expectations from women not just men. For example, society looks down on women who get angry.. Women get ridiculed when they are angry just like men are ridiculed when they are sad or emotional. Women are never expected to never be angry as if they are not humans. They are also capable of anger and aggression just as men.. Most women avoid showing anger for the same reason but not releasing their anger affects them emotionally. 

So yes I understand the social attitude point but a man's toxic behavior is not exactly society's fault. Some men show healthy behavior to society children and women. 

Some men are toxic to society women and children. And these men are bad examples to other men 

The purpose of the thread is to highlight such behaviors and examples. 

.. 

 

[Toby]

Toxic masculinity is a term originated by men who wanted to question their role that society put on them. It did not originate from wome talking about men. I didn't know this until like few weeks ago.

So why is "a man should be strong" toxic when a man thinks it but not also toxic when a women thinks it? Aren't we together in it questioning gender roles? I thought that was a given.

Yes the same is true for the woman role. But also here I expect also men questioning how they view women, not just women themselves.

[Toby]

I give you you examples of men:

- gangster rap and how men and women are portrayed there

- same is true for most porn

- pickup: when men tell each other how to behave to behave or look more manly or less "needy", less "AFC". Also how you're uncool if you want a monogamous relationship, because you should always want sex with any attractive woman. Also how women are portrayed in most pickup material. More advanced forms are talking how a man should or shouldn't have a certain masculine / feminine energy or "polarity". 

- Homophobia

- expectations you should have certain hobbies. Seeing yoga and meditation as "gay".

- expectations a man should be extraverted and social

- assumption that men are competetive and are useless for more social jobs or viewing them as uncool.

[Preety_India]

@Toby  these are also good examples and so are examples of dominant abusive males who try to sabotage men and women to go to the top 

Men who use their position to threaten. Men who normalize abuse of other men and women and children. 

Men who say "men will be men" instead of taking responsibility for their bad actions. 

Also Leo mentioned a lot of good examples earlier in the thread. You can have a look at those as well. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

 

@Toby 

@Preety_India

 i see. It's a broader concept than I thought.

Just got this offf Wikipedia also.

 

The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. The socialization of boys in patriarchal societies often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression.

Self-reliance and emotional repression are correlated with increased psychological problems in men such as depression, increased stress, and substance abuse. Toxic masculine traits are characteristic of the unspoken code of behavior among men in American prisons, where they exist in part as a response to the harsh conditions of prison life.

Other traditionally masculine traits such as devotion to work, pride in excelling at sports, and providing for one's family, are not considered to be "toxic". The concept was originally used by authors associated with the mythopoetic men's movement such as Shepherd Bliss to contrast stereotypical notions of masculinity with a "real" or "deep" masculinity that they say men have lost touch with in modern society. Critics of the term argue that its meaning incorrectly implies gender-related issues are caused by inherent male traits.[1]

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

 

[Privet]