Toxic Masculinity Examples Mega-Thread

[Heart of Space]

8 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Alright, thank you for the explanation.

What is toxic about being Christian though? What is masculine about it? Spreading your belief system is not a masculine thing, it's a people thing.

Also word salad, misdirection, flowery language and disguise, I understand these criticisms but these things are not typically masculine. Men and women both use them often. I ascribe them more to politicians and intellectuals, whatever gender they may be.

When you say "toxic" I assume that people are getting hurt because of it. I don't see how Dan Bilzerian is hurting anyone.

I wasn't bringing up the Christian thing as an example of toxic masculinity more as a general descriptor of Peterson.  But it's all tied together.  Not sure why you're not addressing my post as a whole, because the way you criticize it you take my entire point and perspective out of context.  

Sounds like you're just ignorant of the concept of toxic masculinity in general and how it effects individuals within a culture and society in which it operates.  I'd recommend doing your own research and reading before commenting in here because no one person can sit and spend the time to educate you on something that requires your own effort to learn and understand.  

If you want to pay me a tuition fee I'll put together a course for you, if not, I'd recommend google search.  

Edited July 23, 2020 by Heart of Space

[flowboy]

@Heart of Space  That's a cop-out. This entire thread is a perfect place to discuss what it is and is not.

I'm addressing the parts of your post that don't have anything to do with masculinity or toxicity, but just unrelated criticisms of JP who happens to be a man. Which is most of your response. Wait, isn't that word salad and misdirection?

[Heart of Space]

Just now, flowboy said:

@Heart of Space  That's a cop-out. This entire thread is a perfect place to discuss what it is and is not.

I'm addressing the parts of your post that don't have anything to do with masculinity or toxicity, but just unrelated criticisms of JP who happens to be a man. Which is most of your response. Wait, isn't that word salad and misdirection?

You literally left out the parts that were explicitly relating to toxic masculinity and then clipped the parts you wanted to criticize out to take them out of context.  

Watch I can do it too.  

 

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

@Heart of Space  That's a cop

No, what are you talking about.  I never brought up cops at all.  Why are you bringing up cops?  That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.  

[remember]

the most favored approach of toxic masculinity is to stop criticism - what is not uttered cannot be heard. what is ridiculed and socially lowered in status is not taken seriously. best approach for women is still secrecy.

Edited July 23, 2020 by remember

[Display_Name]

50 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

You also said in your videos it is not about status or looks. 

Of course it is. There’s just more return on working on your game. That’s why he discourages blackpill and encourages working on game. Rightly so. 

But a lot of game is about subtly conveying and implying status.

Anyone saying looks money status doesn’t matter is either 50 iq, or trying to sell you something.

The highest form of game is social status game. It is no longer approaching 7s at the mall, but having your lifestyle, social media and social circle itself funnel you 10s on a passive basis. This is epitomized by Dan Bilzerian, and that’s why so many orange losers worship him, and green girls despise him, because of course, tHeYrE nOt LiKe tHe OtHeR gIrLs.

We’re better off learning and applying the useful and skillful aspects of that, instead of envying or demonizing it.

Labelling everything as “toxic masculinity” is lazy. It’s too easy. It won’t grow you. No one here is even close to conscious enough to do it without bias. You’ll see. Watch this thread devolve.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Display_Name

[flowboy]

8 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

You literally left out the parts that were explicitly relating to toxic masculinity and then clipped the parts you wanted to criticize out to take them out of context.  

Watch I can do it too.  

 

No, what are you talking about.  I never brought up cops at all.  Why are you bringing up cops?  That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.  

Okay, because I asked you to explain the toxic masculinity of it. So then if you respond to that with a bunch of unrelated criticisms of JP, that have nothing to do with toxic masculinity I'm going to call you on that.

I did not ignore your explanation. I read it and it makes sense. He according to you associates women with chaos and men with order.

Is the value judgment on chaos as being negative from you, by the way, or from him?

Because I actually think you need both. From chaos comes creativity, progression and new ideas. Without order, they would not get implemented.

[flowboy]

From Wikipedia:

Quote

In the social sciences, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity is not intended to demonize men or male attributes, but rather to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.[8][9] Toxic masculinity is thus defined by adherence to traditional male gender roles that consequently stigmatize and limit the emotions boys and men may comfortably express while elevating other emotions such as anger.

Explain to me how Dan Bilzerian is guilty of this.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, MsNobody said:

@Leo Gura status or attention? I consider him a clown, those days he was showing off with a baby bear, unfortunately woman at stage orange are all over him but I find him to be disgusting.
Yes he mastered the game, lots of cheese but still trapped in the maze 

Of course he's at stage Orange. So don't expect a yogi out of him.

[Toby]

There is no thing as toxic masculinity. It's an invention to shame men. Serves no other purpose. Or did you ever hear of toxic femininity?

[Applegarden]

I am curious, with all those examples, nobody has listed the chinas communist party, which has a long list of reasons why its the embodiment of toxicity, run mainly by males.

[Leo Gura]

To me, toxic masculinity is a sort of insecure, over-compensating masculinity that tries to be overly macho because it is uncomfortable with its own feminine aspects. It makes a shadow out of the feminine. It demonizes homosexuality. It glorifies patriarchy. It thinks men are superior to women. It treats women as objects. It lacks empathy, intuition, heart, compassion, and love. It's materialistic. It's ethnocentric. It's about traditional gender roles. It's about domination of others. It's immature, juvenile, insecure, angry, bitter, conservative, regressive, reactionary, etc.

Redpill, MGTOW, incels, PUA culture, Jordan Peterson, Steven Crowder, etc.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Applegarden said:

I am curious, with all those examples, nobody has listed the chinas communist party, which has a long list of reasons why its the embodiment of toxicity, run mainly by males.

That's any stage Orange or below patriarchal society/culture.

Red, Blue, Orange are all toxicly masculine because they create a shadow out of the feminine.

[Rilles]

Parody of the Alpha-bro.

[Preety_India]

 

1 hour ago, Toby said:

There is no thing as toxic masculinity. It's an invention to shame men. Serves no other purpose. Or did you ever hear of toxic femininity?

Toxic masculinity does exist. And it is not an invention. The purpose is also not to shame men unless you take it that way. Toxic masculinity does not mean all men, it means a specific behavior which is toxic to both males and females. It serves an infinitely great purpose. By knowing what behavior comprises it, a young man on the path of cultivating masculinity will not go the wrong way and follow toxic examples of males and masculinity but he will focus more on healthy masculinity and develop that. Most men are very confused on this and they never discuss it because it's rarely ever brought up. 

Toxic femininity also exists. But the thread is about toxic masculinity and examples where we can have a discussion about toxic masculinity behavior. This is also beneficial for women because they sometimes have the wrong idea of what a healthy masculine should be. Please don't derail the thread. 

You can see Leo's explanation above. That's a good example. 

 

 

 

[remember]

2 hours ago, Toby said:

There is no thing as toxic masculinity. It's an invention to shame men. Serves no other purpose. Or did you ever hear of toxic femininity?

yes toxic femininity is when women support toxic masculinity. for example don’t stand up to toxicity, play mean games, talk about others behind their back without confronting them, playing cute while being calculating - there is a lot of toxicity in women, too. yet speaking up a against toxicity is not. the devil likes to deny. there is even misogyny amongst women. women can also be toxic towards men, although i know a lot more women who can handle criticism and admit toxicity than i know men who can.

and by the way the playing all cute while being calculating a lot men do that too. although toxic femininity is not that systemically supported as male toxicity is.

Edited July 23, 2020 by remember

[Toby]

@Preety_India but why call it "toxic masculinity" implying there is a link between the two? I know certain traits that are confused happening in men (and women). Not denying that. And you also have to consider that the structure in India is very different from western Europe. For example I've never seen a female construction worker once in Europe but plenty in India.

[remember]

18 minutes ago, Toby said:

@Preety_India but why call it "toxic masculinity" implying there is a link between the two? I know certain traits that are confused happening in men (and women). Not denying that. And you also have to consider that the structure in India is very different from western Europe. For example I've never seen a female construction worker once in Europe but plenty in India.

no it’s not different - it’s a gender phenomenon with social darwinistic tendencies you can find everywhere on this planet - would be interesting if aliens may have three genders or how they would make differences directly after birth deciding which will be the social status and such. its not even possible for women to become president of the united states.

in a lot of families even children have a higher status than the woman who delivered them - its still systemic.

Edited July 23, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

 

@Toby  this is not about culture. It's about a pattern of behaviors in specific gender. Just like there are patterns of behaviors in certain women that can comprise as toxic feminine behavior, there are behaviors that are exhibited in men which are toxic masculine.

As you can see in the thread some men want to know about healthy masculinity. So differentiating between toxic masculinity and healthy masculinity is a good start. 

 

[Toby]

I remember the time when I worked with kids from age 3 to 10. Because of that I find it ridiculous seeing being male or female as toxic. For me it's not toxic. Yes, I see patterns of confusion. A lot. And it shows up differently in men than in women - I agree. But shaming confused behaviour doesn't help very much. For example I see Elliot Hulse as very confused, probably traumatized expression - but he as a human being is not toxic. Also in Pickup... a lot of very confused dudes.... but toxic... I wouldn't use that word.

[remember]

7 hours ago, Toby said:

I remember the time when I worked with kids from age 3 to 10. Because of that I find it ridiculous seeing being male or female as toxic. For me it's not toxic. Yes, I see patterns of confusion. A lot. And it shows up differently in men than in women - I agree. But shaming confused behaviour doesn't help very much. For example I see Elliot Hulse as very confused, probably traumatized expression - but he as a human being is not toxic. Also in Pickup... a lot of very confused dudes.... but toxic... I wouldn't use that word.

that’s because, children are yet neutral if they don‘t get fed by toxic ideas.

the problem is rather that they would maybe not make the differences, but circumstances and society does.

Edited July 23, 2020 by remember