Toxic Masculinity Examples Mega-Thread

[Preety_India]

I wanted to start a megathread where you guys can give examples of toxic masculinity and discuss what you think comprises toxic masculinity. 

One example that comes to my mind is  Trump 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

Oh God. This will get cringe real fast.

[mmKay]

I used to get real insights from Elliot Hulsex but he has regressed so much : 

Quite long video yes, but I challenge you not to facepalm no more once than 10 min. 

Quite deep regression, that seems to be the end of his development given how deep, assertive and pushing he is in his worldview. 

[TrustTheProcess]

 

[Leo Gura]

@mmKay I've been to the 21 Convention back in 2012. The dude who organizes is a huge libertarian/anarchist with a raging hard-on for Ayn Rand and chip on his shoulder against all things mystical.

But you can learn a lot at the convention. It will just be extremely stage Orange and alpha male ego dominated.

[Roy]

One of the biggest examples I can think of is the insecurities men have about being appearing "tough" in front of other men (and women). It holds us back as a gender from becoming more mature and developed.

For example as suicide rate statistics show there is an epidemic of poor mental health among many men; However if any man tries to bring up their mental health struggles among a group of other men in a social setting or even in the workplace (that isn't in a public spotlight) - they are laughed at, called a pussy, and told to tough it out. And if those blunt immature attitudes aren't on display most men will simply respond by being passive, dismissive, deliberately ignorant, and denying the problem exists. The only refuge you will find among men socially is if you bring it up in private to someone you're close to, will you be better understood or supported.

The reason for this happening of course is because of an attachment to an old traditional patriarchal perspective of what it means to be a man. Men are socially encouraged by one another to desperately try to out-compete each other in the game of pea-cocking strength and stability, admitting any sort of hardship and asking for help is considering a weakness and retreat from this game (as well as an insult to the game). And it's implied without being said that men "should" not be able to emotionally support each other, because that's the woman's role. This probably comes from a place of homophobia and ignorance, the assumption that it's impossible to men to offer each other intimate emotional support without some kind of sexual intention. This is obviously childish and preposterous but hey most men are pretty stupid and insecure about themselves lol, hence why it's such a problem.

I worked as a firefighter for 8 years and it astounded me just how little overall development, procedures, and resources there were regarding this issue. These kind of mental health struggles are rampant among emergency services members, yet so many of these suicides, medical leaves, and overall inefficiencies could be prevented if men would just get out of their own way and had the courage and maturity to support each other. It is getting better though as far as I've seen, and there was improvement in just the short time I was there.

Anyways the irony in all this is that men would actually display the greatest amount of strength by being vulnerable in front of each other and leading their brothers out of those dark places. As @Leo Gura has talked about Fear is such a pervasive force. Men are so insecure and care what other men think sooooo damn much that it cripples us all as a gender and holds us back.

If the attachment to this idea isn't toxic masculinity I don't know what is.

[Preety_India]

@Roy  that's a very good point. 

Toxic masculinity doesn't approve or respect the vulnerable side in men. True. 

 

 

 

[MsNobody]

 

[Heart of Space]

I actually like Jordan Peterson, but he's definitely got some of the toxic masculinity in a more subtle intellectual way.  

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

 

That's what you call structural game. I like it. Why chase girls when they can come to you?

High social status is the ultimate way to get laid. Nothing matters at that point, not money, not looks, not personality, not game, not words. Just pure status.

[nistake]

@Leo Gura He explains it further in this video:

 

[Display_Name]

Oh nice, the inevitable “successful-male-that-doesn’t-fit-my-ideology-and-biased-agenda-so-i’ll-label-it-toxic-masculinity” megathread.

 

[remember]

21 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

Oh nice, the inevitable “successful-male-that-doesn’t-fit-my-ideology-and-biased-agenda-so-i’ll-label-it-toxic-masculinity” megathread.

 

oh nice the inevitable „unsuccessful-male-that-actually-really-doesn’t-fit-my-taste-nor-ideology-because-of-biased-agenda-so-it-is-really-toxic-masculinity-not-just-for-one-woman.-toxic-males-want-to-make-the-rules-and-can’t-handle-truth-kind-of-guy“

Edited July 23, 2020 by remember

[MsNobody]

@Leo Gura status or attention? I consider him a clown, those days he was showing off with a baby bear, unfortunately woman at stage orange are all over him but I find him to be disgusting.
Yes he mastered the game, lots of cheese but still trapped in the maze 

[flowboy]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I wanted to start a megathread where you guys can give examples of toxic masculinity and discuss what you think comprises toxic masculinity. 

@MsNobody @Heart of Space

If the purpose here is really somewhat educational/truth-seeking, can we at least explain and define what is "toxic" about the examples we post?

It looks to me like you're just posting videos of famous people that you don't like for some reason and oh btw they're a man.

Jordan Peterson, Dan Bilzerian, really I don't see what they have in common except penis and fame.

Because I have no anger issues towards either gender, I don't like it when people start gender wars. I have a pretty good grasp of the trauma that both hetero sexes can accumulate due to unpleasant interactions and the unjustices that unconscious men and women do to each other, but if you act like (attributes of) an entire sex is a problem, then you are actually the problem.

[Display_Name]

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

@MsNobody @Heart of Space

If the purpose here is really somewhat educational/truth-seeking, can we at least explain and define what is "toxic" about the examples we post?

It looks to me like you're just posting videos of famous people that you don't like for some reason and oh btw they're a man.

Jordan Peterson, Dan Bilzerian, really I don't see what they have in common except penis and fame.

Because I have no anger issues towards either gender, I don't like it when people start gender wars. I have a pretty good grasp of the trauma that both hetero sexes can accumulate due to unpleasant interactions and the unjustices that unconscious men and women do to each other, but if you act like (attributes of) an entire sex is a problem, then you are actually the problem.

Based??

[Rasheed]

I did not listen to Dan's interviews as much, but what I listened to: I think He is intelligent guy. Not stupid guy.

You also said in your videos it is not about status or looks. 

I don't think, girls chase him, just because of his money. He has an attractive personality too.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Rasheed

[Heart of Space]

22 minutes ago, flowboy said:

@MsNobody @Heart of Space

If the purpose here is really somewhat educational/truth-seeking, can we at least explain and define what is "toxic" about the examples we post?

It looks to me like you're just posting videos of famous people that you don't like for some reason and oh btw they're a man.

Jordan Peterson, Dan Bilzerian, really I don't see what they have in common except penis and fame.

Because I have no anger issues towards either gender, I don't like it when people start gender wars. I have a pretty good grasp of the trauma that both hetero sexes can accumulate due to unpleasant interactions and the unjustices that unconscious men and women do to each other, but if you act like (attributes of) an entire sex is a problem, then you are actually the problem.

Firstly, I clearly said that I liked Jordan Peterson.  So, it has absolutely nothing to do with personal distaste.  I think he has a lot of positive things to say.  

To give a few of the top of my head, he vaguely ascribes certain negative attributes to women (Chaos) and positive to men (Order), he justifies the discrepancy of men to women in policy making, and refuses to acknowledge unique gender identity on the basis of his cringey over dramatic assertion that it apparently devolves into Marxism.  Every commentary he makes about the foundation of western society is to push and justify a patriarchal viewpoint.  

He has sexist very traditional conservative beliefs and disguises them in a bunch of Deepak Chopra style intellectual word salad.  Kind of in a similar way he justifies his religion.  Which is why if you ask him a straight forward question about his religion he'll spend 15 minutes talking around the question and tell you that it would take four days to begin to answer it.  He uses a lot of misdirection, flowery language, and distracts you with his crazy hand movements.    At the end of the day he's a conservative Christian who has some solid suggestions for self help and personal improvement.  

Yes, he's different from the low IQ 40 year old frat boy who's having a mid life crisis that is Dan Bilzerian.  But they both fall under the umbrella of toxic masculinity, they are just different flavors.  

Edited July 23, 2020 by Heart of Space

[flowboy]

Alright, thank you for the explanation.

What is toxic about being Christian though? What is masculine about it? Spreading your belief system is not a masculine thing, it's a people thing.

Also word salad, misdirection, flowery language and disguise, I understand these criticisms but these things are not typically masculine. Men and women both use them often. I ascribe them more to politicians and intellectuals, whatever gender they may be.

When you say "toxic" I assume that people are getting hurt because of it. I don't see how Dan Bilzerian is hurting anyone. Let the frat boy be a frat boy. To each his own and all.

Edited July 23, 2020 by flowboy

[flowboy]

Since I'm very dissatisfied with the examples posted so far, and I don't want to seem biased, here's an example of something that's actually toxic and most women would never think of: