Kratom for energy and endurance. My opinion and experience using it for work

[Javfly33]

Recently I started a physical labor job and I have been using Kratom to put in the hours (I had a Kratom habit before hand, but I definitely switch it from being a dumb habit to at least a useful one because now it helps me to do the work until I find my career desired job)

After watching Leo's last video about his health issues I thought about opening this thread to discuss the applications of Kratom for energy and stamina, especially for productive/work purposes

In my experience using it for physical work,(8 hours a day) I've found is the best substance I've found regarding safety/effectiveness. Yes, you do become dependent on it if you use it for energy. But so do you with coffee. In my case I decided to switch to Kratom because I found coffee didn't help that much physical energy, but rather mental stimulation. Also, with Kratom I have seen it doesn't impact my mood or anxiety the rest of the day, whereas with coffee the "after effects" or "crash" feels more taxing on the mind. 

Also, something just tells me that while Kratom does make you dependent to have energy as coffee does, it doesn't make the body as "dependent" on it as coffee. I say this because when I used to take coffee, when I got up in the morning I felt absolutely fatigued until I had my first coffee. With Kratom this doesn't happens. Yes, I have the habit of using it for energy so of course I make sure to not forget to take some to work BUT if I can't take it until it passes two hours, I am not so fatigued as I would be when I needed that coffee, basically I am still funtional. I am not chemist, but this tells me that while Kratom does gives you energy it doesn't prevent the body to create it's own "energy chemicals" as coffee does, making your body significantly less dependent if by any chance some day you can't take it.

Well. That's my take on it. I probably have to update in some months if everything stay the same, but I don't see why not. I've been using Kratom as a substitute for coffee for months already and I haven't up the dose a bit, so things should the stay the same. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Javfly33

[The0Self]

I hate to ruin your parade but kratom is playing with fire. I’m using it right now to get off of buprenorphine. It takes away all withdrawal and then some. It has strong opioid effects. Use it for a month straight and stop abruptly (don’t actually). You’ll feel a bit restless. Do it again and stop; feel a bit more restless but this time it’s agonizing. Before you know it you’re having full-blown opioid withdrawal which is just about the worst feeling you can imagine. You know the feeling you get when you get a papercut or break a bone? Hurting so bad you break out in a cold sweat? Combine that with the feeling of nails on a chalkboard IN your spine, and you have a shallow facsimile of opioid WD. Be very careful and maybe never dose 2 days in a row.

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I hate to ruin your parade but kratom is playing with fire. I’m using it right now to get off of buprenorphine. It takes away all withdrawal and then some. It has strong opioid effects. Use it for a month straight and stop abruptly (don’t actually). You’ll feel a bit restless. Do it again and stop; feel a bit more restless but this time it’s agonizing. Before you know it you’re having full-blown opioid withdrawal which is just about the worst feeling you can imagine. You know the feeling you get when you get a papercut or break a bone? Hurting so bad you break out in a cold sweat? Combine that with the feeling of nails on a chalkboard IN your spine, and you have a shallow facsimile of opioid WD. Be very careful and maybe never dose 2 days in a row.

People always use the fact that Kratom helps very good with opioid WD as a scare tactic in to why Kratom must be bad too or dangerous too in the same level.

It just not correct, it's not rational.

I have been using Kratom daily for months, I have stopped, and the WD are a joke compared to any serious drug. The WD were not more difficult than those of coffee (actually those from coffee were worse, but I atributte it to the fact that I had been using coffee for years, not months).

You guys will have to come up with serious scientific research (or even anecdotical, but the thing is anecdotical is full of experiences as mine, although I'll give you that also there are anecdotical evidence too of bad WD, but that is most of the times because of reckless dosing).

Again, I have taken Kratom twice or even sometimes three times a day, for more than 4-5months straight. Stopped, had lighter WD than those from coffee .

The plant due to natural tolerance can't be really abused. People that have Serious WD is because they really must be getting some kind of artificial extract that is artificially potentiated, or either they were previous opioid addicts and Kratom makes them a re-live an opioid WD (that's just my theory thought )

Edited July 22, 2020 by Javfly33

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

People always use the fact that Kratom helps very good with opioid WD as a scare tactic in to why Kratom must be bad too or dangerous too in the same level.

It just not correct, it's not rational.

I have been using Kratom daily for months, I have stopped, and the WD are a joke compared to any serious drug. The WD were not more difficult than those of coffee (actually those from coffee were worse, but I atributte it to the fact that I had been using coffee for years, not months).

You guys will have to come up with serious scientific research (or even anecdotical, but the thing is anecdotical is full of experiences as mine, although I'll give you that also there are anecdotical evidence too of bad WD, but that is most of the times because of reckless dosing)

That’s probably true, but reckless dosing is all that works when you’re an ex heroin addict. Though, gas station or head shop kratom is nothing compared to the stuff you can get online (HS). My tolerance gives me brutal WD’s and I take 16 grams a day and feel literally perfectly fine. Years ago I would take 60 grams a day and believe me it’s basically identical to tramadol. You’re gonna have a bad time if you use it for years on end. I started out with kratom btw, not H, but I was young and dumb and used high doses and both of my birth parents were addicts so I always craved opioids. Once I experienced jhana abusing any drug became impossible but I’m still coming off subutex.

[Javfly33]

23 minutes ago, The0Self said:

That’s probably true, but reckless dosing is all that works when you’re an ex heroin addict. Though, gas station or head shop kratom is nothing compared to the stuff you can get online (HS). My tolerance gives me brutal WD’s and I take 16 grams a day and feel literally perfectly fine. Years ago I would take 60 grams a day and believe me it’s basically identical to tramadol. You’re gonna have a bad time if you use it for years on end. I started out with kratom btw, not H, but I was young and dumb and used high doses and both of my birth parents were addicts so I always craved opioids. Once I experienced jhana abusing any drug became impossible but I’m still coming off subutex.

I agree, but what I'm seeing is that problems comes with those who can do those doses.

I love Kratom but I can't raise the dose because it just doesn't work or gives me negative effects 

 

This is the first dose in grams I did two years ago when I first started using Kratom : 2grams

This is what I do nowadays: 2grams

In between this two years I have raised to 3grams, but found that 2grams were my sweet spot.

I m sure if i could do 15 grams with the same effects, I would get bad WD, but the fact is I CAN'T because I get bad negative effects and nausea. So the way that tolerance works for my body and a lot of bodies makes Kratom pretty safe (so far, maybe I'll be wrong? But why it would get bad after two years using it?). However in those you guys that because of genetics or who knows can get good effects dosing and dosing more, then you guys get bad WD

Correct me if I'm wrong in my theory but I think it's what is really happening here.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

@The0Self But of course I'll be sure to make tolerance breaks regularly to check how dependent my body is in it.

All I can say is that after two years using it sparely and last year daily, if I quit it in 4 days I am at normal energy levels.

Maybe after 4 years using it it would take me 10-12 days?

Coffee took me 25 days to be normal again, so that's what I'm saying I don't see such a difference, unless by some sort of genetic thing you are able to get euphoric effects using it daily! Then some nasty WD will happen. Dosing daily I  don't get euphoria or anything like that, just a stimulation that I like way more than coffee. But I'm sure if I would dose to pursue euphoria and recreation, then I would get bad WD

[The0Self]

5 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I agree, but what I'm seeing is that problems comes with those who can do those doses.

I love Kratom but I can't raise the dose because it just doesn't work or gives me negative effects 

 

This is the first dose in grams I did two years ago when I first started using Kratom : 2grams

This is what I do nowadays: 2grams

In between this two years I have raised to 3grams, but found that 2grams were my sweet spot.

I m sure if i could do 15 grams with the same effects, I would get bad WD, but the fact is I CAN'T because I get bad negative effects and nausea. So the way that tolerance works for my body and a lot of bodies makes Kratom pretty safe (so far, maybe I'll be wrong? But why it would get bad after two years using it?). However in those you guys that because of genetics or who knows can get good effects dosing and dosing more, then you guys get bad WD

Correct me if I'm wrong in my theory but I think it's what is really happening here.

Could be. I started out using it as a social lubricant when I was 16-17. Usually taking 3-10g at a time, once a week or so. I had almost no issues with it until I was 18 and got a perceivable WD upon cessation for the first time of using it daily for a month straight. It was so subtle I didn’t even know what it was until it was over (in 3 days). About a year after that I was into H on and off and also kratom still (there was this amazing source abbreviated ZE). Got pretty bad WD but not horrible. I can see many getting caught up with it just like ANY pain pills. It’s no IV heroin, but it is absolutely as powerful as oxycodone. It’s just that, as you said, it gives a bit of nausea.. SO DOES HEROIN. Every heard the term “I tried heroin and I can’t imagine anyone liking it, it made me sick/puke”

Sound familiar?

[The0Self]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@The0Self But of course I'll be sure to make tolerance breaks regularly to check how dependent my body is in it.

All I can say is that after two years using it sparely and last year daily, if I quit it in 4 days I am at normal energy levels.

Maybe after 4 years using it it would take me 10-12 days?

Coffee took me 25 days to be normal again, so that's what I'm saying I don't see such a difference, unless by some sort of genetic thing you are able to get euphoric effects using it daily! Then some nasty WD will happen. Dosing daily I  don't get euphoria or anything like that, just a stimulation that I like way more than coffee. But I'm sure if I would dose to pursue euphoria and recreation, then I would get bad WD

All I’m saying is it CAN be very dangerous and it IS addictive. As addictive as any commonly prescribed opioid pain pills.

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Could be. I started out using it as a social lubricant when I was 16-17. Usually taking 3-10g at a time, once a week or so. I had almost no issues with it until I was 18 and got a perceivable WD upon cessation for the first time of using it daily for a month straight. It was so subtle I didn’t even know what it was until it was over (in 3 days). About a year after that I was into H on and off and also kratom still (there was this amazing source abbreviated ZE). Got pretty bad WD but not horrible. I can see many getting caught up with it just like ANY pain pills. It’s no IV heroin, but it is absolutely as powerful as oxycodone. It’s just that, as you said, it gives a bit of nausea.. SO DOES HEROIN. Every heard the term “I tried heroin and I can’t imagine anyone liking it, it made me sick/puke”

Sound familiar?

@The0Self Yes, I'm not denying the recreational effects of Kratom. It does have an opioid feeling effect if you can get the buzz. But as I said, the question is can you get the buzz ?

With heroin and straight opioids you can get the buzz if you have money to take/smoke enough (even if you got tolerance) (correct me if I'm wrong). With Kratom, the fact of having 100gr in front of me doesn't give that much because I know that I won't get a recreational, craving, buzz unless I dose once or two a week.

@The0Self I agree it is addictive. But I also think it has some good uses for things as physical labor.

In my opinion yes IT is addictive and it can be recreational, BUT I haven't found it is "dangerously" addictive. Can it be dangerously addictive since it is a "sneak peek" of the opioid feeling so you might end up "taking a look" at harder drugs? Maybe. But again not everybody might do that. 

Is the same as cocaine, Cocaine it's very addictive but not nearly most people that had used cocaine has gotten addictive and a daily habit to it.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Javfly33

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@The0Self Yes, I'm not denying the recreational effects of Kratom. It does have an opioid feeling effect if you can get the buzz. But as I said, the question is can you get the buzz ?

With heroin and straight opioids you can get the buzz if you have money to take/smoke enough (even if you got tolerance) (correct me if I'm wrong). With Kratom, the fact of having 100gr in front of me doesn't give that much because I know that I won't get a recreational, craving, buzz unless I dose once or two a week.

 

Ok now that is interesting. I got a pretty good buzz just yesterday on accident by taking 2 doses too close to each other. I take 4g 4x a day. Sometimes 2g 8x/d. NOT recreationally. As I said I’m detoxing from subutex. Took my last dose of buprenorphine 0.5mg 4x/d at Tuesday July 7th at 4pm.

[Javfly33]

Just now, The0Self said:

Ok now that is interesting. I got a pretty good buzz just yesterday on accident by taking 2 doses too close to each other. I take 4g 4x a day. Sometimes 2g 8x/d. NOT recreationally. As I said I’m detoxing from subutex. Took my last dose of buprenorphine 0.5mg 4x/d at Tuesday July 7th at 4pm.

See I couldn't do that. Anything more than 3gr I'll get maniac and nauseous.

You do have a point. I mean if I could get a buzz just "dosing more" I would be VERY addictive to Kratom. But fortunately the drug doesn't work for me that way. And it hasn't changed in the last 2 years (it has gotten more difficult to catch a recreational effect, to the point that as I said I use it now for work and when I dose I literally dose the less I can for energy not looking for anything else).

Anyway congrats man for your detox. I know some close people were addictive to H and I know it's a dark, dark place to be in.

You got it!!!

[The0Self]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

See I couldn't do that. Anything more than 3gr I'll get maniac and nauseous.

You do have a point. I mean if I could get a buzz just "dosing more" I would be VERY addictive to Kratom. But fortunately the drug doesn't work for me that way. And it hasn't changed in the last 2 years (it has gotten more difficult to catch a recreational effect, to the point that as I said I use it now for work and when I dose I literally dose the less I can for energy not looking for anything else).

Anyway congrats man for your detox. I know some close people were addictive to H and I know it's a dark, dark place to be in.

You got it!!!

Thanks! And by the way why do you think I’m using kratom? The WD is so much easier than subutex! Lol. It’s still opioid WD though. Yeah as far as opioids go, kratom is on the low end; but as far as ALL drugs go, opioids are by FAR the most (worst) addictive.

[LfcCharlie4]

Where do you get your Kratom from?

[The0Self]

19 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Where do you get your Kratom from?

Don’t know how ok it is to do this but I’ll just give you a hint/abbreviation: H.S.

Mine is 4 years old idk if that site is even still active but I think they are — there’s some worthless kratom and there’s some bomb kratom out there.

 

you know it’s like super addictive right? Or at least can be. I’m just using it to detox off opioid maintenance (subutex) because it has a much shorter half life and subutex (as well as methadone) are known to be harder to quit than heroin.

Edited July 23, 2020 by The0Self

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Where do you get your Kratom from?

@LfcCharlie4 Kraatje.eu 

They ship from Netherlands next day delivery. I'm not sure if they ship to UK thought, you'll have to check.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Javfly33

[The0Self]

4 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Where do you get your Kratom from?

Well, I guess sourcing is allowed. Got mine from Herbal Salvation. It’s very good. Years ago, though. Using leftover stash. See what people are saying on reddit.

[Javfly33]

19 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Well, I guess sourcing is allowed. Got mine from Herbal Salvation. It’s very good. Years ago, though. Using leftover stash. See what people are saying on reddit.

Damn you kidding!? 4 years and still works? 

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Damn you kidding!? 4 years and still works? 

Hell yeah I wasn’t even expecting it to. It’s literally as good as new! Was planning on ordering more but it’s perfectly fine lol. It’s been under my bed in 68-71 degrees F untouched since early 2017 or so.