What Is A Thought?

[Christian]

I am curious to know your view of what thoughts actually are to use that knowledge in my favor on my path to enlightenment.

Therefore, I have a few questions I hope you can help me answer as I am struggling to do so myself..

What is a thought existentially?

To what degree are thoughts true?

What is absolute truth?

What is the distinction between thinking and awareness?

 

[Ayla]

A thought, is a byproduct of billions of converging factors, seemingly being focused in a certain time-space.

A thought is never true or false. It is just a happening, a firing of neuronal paths that receive perpetual information giving rise to yet more information. What thoughts are about, is always an interpretation of a sort, and can be made true or false from different perspectives.

Absolute truth is whatever IS (it is true just because it exists)

Both thinking and awareness are mind concepts if they are presented in relation to "someone" thinking and being aware. But for the sake of understanding, let's say that awareness is "static", it just is and thoughts arise and dissolve from it, on it, in it.

That's the best I can describe with words how it is seen here...

[Christian]

I get that thoughts are real. I mean when you have an experience which is a thought, that thought is what is. But I also have realized the thought's content is an illusion meaning that it does not exist in reality as a physical entity. 

What do you think? 

[key]

4 hours ago, Christian said:

I get that thoughts are real. I mean when you have an experience which is a thought, that thought is what is. But I also have realized the thought's content is an illusion meaning that it does not exist in reality as a physical entity. 

What do you think? 

Thoughts exist as they appear. That's it. 

[Christian]

But thoughts  are not communicating what is literally out there in reality. They are simply images that the mind creates and they do not literally exist even though they exist as illusory experiences.

A great example of this would be to think of santa claus. He is not literally Real - meaning he is not out there - but there still a certain image when you think  of him and that experience is real as it is occuring.

What is your opinion on this?  

[abrakamowse]

We are not real also @Christian  if you think about it. Having a physically  appearance doesn't mean we exists. The idea of identity, of being something is a thought too. IMO thought is what gives us the possibility to interpret the world in certain way, then when we grow up we have to realize that the idea of "me" is like the idea of "santa" in some way. There's no "me".

Mooji talks about that, I think it's interesting.

 

[FindingPeace]

On 01/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, Christian said:

What is a thought existentially?

A thought is 'data' emerging from your brain processes. There are several types of thought I have identified during meditation: Thoughts about the past which attempt to reason out past experiences and derive meanings and motivations for future actions. Thoughts about the future which run through possible scenarios and simulations so as to give as a plan of action for future possibilities. Thoughts about the present moment which identify the details of what is going on around us and derive meaing from it that can be used to consider future actions.

Most thoughts, it seems, consist of data that has been sorted by the brain and presented to our conscious-awareness in order to create motivations for future actions.

On 01/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, Christian said:

To what degree are thoughts true?

There's no 'true' or 'false' about thoughts. They just are. They are symbols that represent meaning that the brain is deriving from memory and from current experience. They are not representative of reality, but are more of an 'augmented reality' that we live within.

On 01/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, Christian said:

What is absolute truth?

Absolute truth is 'what is'. We can't really experience absolute truth because we can only experience reality through experience itself - which is subjective and also limited by our means of sensory inputs and our interpretation of those inputs. Absolute truth is exactly what is, when you stop thinking about it.

On 01/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, Christian said:

What is the distinction between thinking and awareness?

Awareness is the field of consciousness that exists that experiences sensory information from the body and thoughts themselves. Thoughts are presented to your awareness, just as sight, sound, smell and touch is presented to it. Awareness is what ceases when you loose consciousness (like in deep sleep or under general anesthetic). You can still have awareness without the presence of thoughts.

 

[Bronsoval]

You guys are thinking too much! Everything has a given definition that has been defined by people.  When something comes up that matches an entry in your "rolodex" and you recognize it, a thought occurs.  You can't have thoughts without some sort of knowledge background.

[David1]

On 8/1/2016 at 8:42 PM, Christian said:

I get that thoughts are real. I mean when you have an experience which is a thought, that thought is what is. But I also have realized the thought's content is an illusion meaning that it does not exist in reality as a physical entity. 

What do you think? 

Yes. The biological/neurological correlate of a thought is like the ink in a book. The neurons firing, the ion gaps etc. exist in physical reality, but not the meaning. Just like the ink in  book is physical, but the story isn't.

[rambitherhino]

self inquiry is great to dissect thoughts. a lot of times i sit there and just ask myself where is this coming, why cant i control this, why is this happening and why am i influenced by this so much. i mean you literally get physical reactions after a thought; how, why ? i have no clue. i dont think you can explain thoughts, if i were to then i would be just jerking you and myself off. just try to become aware of it, get to know the thoughts by just there sheer nature and not the content of the thought. they are a bitch, but just like many things in this world, once you get to know it its really not that bad. 

P.S. whats true is right in front of you, now i might be wrong but to be honest its your safest bet

[Sky]

This is such a fascinating topic. A few months ago, I would not even have stopped to consider what a thought is. This would have been too deep and insignificant then.

Through meditation and applying what I learned from Leo's videos (and other sources), I'm finding a renewed interest in discovering what a thought is, what/who the "I" is, and the process of self-inquiry.

@abrakamowse  posted a video a few posts above from Mooji. I had no idea who he was, but after watching one of his video on self-inquiry, I started experiencing a shift. 

I'm also finding videos from Rupert Spira extremely interesting. He is very articulate and I find myself watching his videos again and again. https://www.youtube.com/user/rupertspira

I certainly don't have the answer(s) yet, but discovering AND enjoying the process of self-inquiry is beyond words.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Sky

[Matthew Lamot]

On 8/1/2016 at 8:58 AM, Christian said:

I am curious to know your view of what thoughts actually are to use that knowledge in my favor on my path to enlightenment.

Therefore, I have a few questions I hope you can help me answer as I am struggling to do so myself..

What is a thought existentially?

To what degree are thoughts true?

What is absolute truth?

What is the distinction between thinking and awareness?

 

This is a really interesting thing.  I don't have the answers unfortunately, but I am in the process of finding out by myself the answers to all these questions.

But I can give you some educated guess based on my assumptions!

The distinction between thinking and awareness you verify for yourself in your own experience right now.  Look at a thought, who is aware of the thought?  The awareness of all objects like thought and matter is the Self.  

But the Self does not stop there inside the head.  Close your eyes and get still.  Notice then the awareness.  Try to locate a boundary between where you think awareness stops on the egde of 'you' and the apparent imagined environment.  You will discover that there is in fact no real boundary between the inside and outside.  It seems that way, but just like the border on a map between say Canada and USA is clearly marked on paper, in reality the border isn't really there.  The border is just an idea!

So thought and belief is this thing that creates all these imaginary boundaries between things so that awareness can know itself as a multiplicity of objects.  To become enlightened I guess that those boundaries which have been hard wired into the body since birth are completely torn down and the Self is liberated from its identification with one of the apparent separate forms that it created - Absolute Truth?

So if one is enlightened there will be no thoughts left, because there is no identity.  In this respect thoughts are ultimately false.

 

[Matthew Lamot]

 

 

[Matthew Lamot]

3 hours ago, Sky said:

This is such a fascinating topic. A few months ago, I would not even have stopped to consider what a thought is. This would have been too deep and insignificant then.

Through meditation and applying what I learned from Leo's videos (and other sources), I'm finding a renewed interest in discovering what a thought is, what/who the "I" is, and the process of self-inquiry.

@abrakamowse  posted a video a few posts above from Mooji. I had no idea who he was, but after watching one of his video on self-inquiry, I started experiencing a shift. 

I'm also finding videos from Rupert Spira extremely interesting. He is very articulate and I find myself watching his videos again and again. https://www.youtube.com/user/rupertspira

I certainly don't have the answer(s) yet, but discovering AND enjoying the process of self-inquiry is beyond words.

I like Rupert too.  He knows his Advaita 

[Sky]

This video has been particularly helpful for me. It's not necessarily specific to thought, although the technique of self-inquiry Rupert goes through can be applied all the same.

 

[Christian]

After deep contemplation, I have come to terms with the fact that honestly... Everything in reality exists as an empty field of nothingness. And that the answers to all of these questions is nothingness. Nothing is everything paradoxically.

And therefore, any rational explanation for any of these questions is just more pure nothingness that gets a model created that is also nothing (but is believed to be something) that belief is also nothing. This goes fucking deep and the ego's delusions is the main thing that has been seperating me from seeing this.

This is how best I can describe my own direct pursuit of answering these questions and get to truth.

Still open to what you think though

[Leo Gura]

On 8/1/2016 at 4:34 PM, Kenya said:

Thoughts exist as they appear. That's it.

This is the correct answer.

I notice a lot of the other responses are talking about thoughts as brain activity and whatnot. That's NOT what thoughts actually are. Those are just more thoughts about thoughts.

The best way to think of a thought is simply as a sensation.

What is an itch?

It's exactly what an itch feels like, and nothing else. An itch is NOT nerve activity in the body << that's a thought!

Likewise, what is a thought?

It's that vague image or sound that arises in your awareness. That's it. Don't try to make more out of it than it is. Experience the thought literally, not figuratively. When experienced fully literally, a thought has no story, no content, no meaning. It's purely a sensation.

Try listening to a thought in a foreign language. Does it have any meaning to you? No? In this case it's very easy for you to notice its literal being, because you cannot get lost in the content, because you have no idea what the content is. So a foreign thought, to you, is just a sensation. And that's all thoughts are.

[Sky]

@Leo Gura  Thank you for the clarification, Leo. Your example of the sensation of an itch is helpful.

In fact, I'm starting to see the correlation with your video on the illusory nature of thoughts. I'm still having a hard time with the concept of "flattening" using some of the examples provided in that video (ie. the image of the spider in particular).

[Leo Gura]

@Sky The spider is also just a sensation. It's a sensation first, and a spider only a distant second, after the mind has had a chance to interpret the sensation and give it value. In fact there is no spider there at all. All it ever is, is a sensation.

[Sky]

@Leo Gura Wow, I suddenly experienced an aha moment after reading your sentence. It's feels like that sentence was the missing piece of puzzle that still had me confused. The feeling is amazing! 

Now I'll get started on my list of 50 thoughts to flatten. 

Thanks again, Leo and Christian for starting the thread!