non-duality & spiritual language

[Mu_]

34 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

@Gesundheit how? xP

There's no scientific concrete one size fits all method that works for everyone.  But that said, try as many methods as you can and see what draws you in energetically.  Maybe you will feel your heart open, maybe an intuitive sense will awaken that feels "just right", or you'll feel your mind start to ease or expand.  If you find anything like that when you try a new method, stay with it for a months-years, until you find yourself pulled somewhere else.

See how Ram Dass works with you.  Put on some head phones with the lights off and just relax, listen and watch this guided thing.

Report back if something shifts

[James123]

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

st out of curiosity is this something your citing or know through awakening or experience

Awakening. 

 

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

I mean if you doubt me, test it out, and I'd honestly be curious if you didn't feel anything different within the Now experiment".

There is no feeling in experience of now. Now is you. 
 

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

since its just a Now, none the less I'd argue that the "Now of taking a ice bath, feels slightly different then the Now of eating a sandwich".

The matrix is naming and labeling so called thoughts, visuals, sensations and feelings. When so called mind goes away, you realize that all happening is you, naming and labeling creates the matrix. Thats why sleeping has no differences than being awake. Because every moment is you. How can you make a difference? When mind goes away distinctions dissolves. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

The happening of "You" can be phrased in many different ways and metaphors none of which are fully able to encompass the totality of "Itself".  Words like "everything" and "nothing" aren't real things so to say in and of themselves, but within our communication now, are metaphors pointing to ".......", which isn't a something, everything or a nothing (again just words pointing).  Some call the way of pointing I'm pointing to, lol, as "nothing can really be said", or "silence is the answer".

Silence and at the same time not silence. Because, There is no mind to answer actually any questions or be silent. Because these are not sentences, all words are identical, not even. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

The main difference is the experience is no longer happening for the separate individual in the body....it's just what's happening. It's simultaneously recognized it never was happening for a separate person, it was a misidentification all along.

Experience is no longer personal...❤

Edited July 22, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Awakening. 

 

There is no feeling in experience of now. Now is you. 
 

The matrix is naming and labeling so called thoughts, visuals, sensations and feelings. When so called mind goes away, you realize that all happening is you, naming and labeling creates the matrix. Thats why sleeping has no differences than being awake. Because every moment is you. How can you make a difference? When mind goes away distinctions dissolves. 
 

 

Silence and at the same time not silence. Because, There is no mind to answer actually any questions or be silent. Because these are not sentences, all words are identical, not even. 

Haha, this is going deep, ok, so are you saying that if an animal bit off leg of the body your talking as or typing right now as, there would be no indication of change?  I mean no feelings to indicate alteration of body..... Is that what your saying and if so, I'm not sure what to call that, lol.

Is color not evident, is sound not evident, is taste not occur, ever notice the stench of a poop vrs the fragrance of a rose?

I think you equate feeling with needing a mind (which doesn't really exist, and I agree), but I'm saying the "taking place/non-event" after distinctions dissolve still has quality/flavor/substance that doesn't require or fall within the general jargon of form or emptiness.

The experience of Being/changing/adventure is no more or no less real/illusion of "You".

[Mu_]

@VeganAwake Sure the individual story can cease, but that doesn't mean its not a one tone happening so to say, or the senses stop functioning and there's no quality of anything.

 

[James123]

53 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Haha, this is going deep, ok, so are you saying that if an animal bit off leg of the body your talking as or typing right now as, there would be no indication of change?  I mean no feelings to indicate alteration of body..... Is that what your saying and if so, I'm not sure what to call that, lol.

I dont refer to say as “If animal bites my leg”. When animal bites the leg, i am the pain. There is no feeling trough the body, because there is no body. Whatever happens in the moment thats what you are (feelings, thoughts, sensations vs). When all happening is you, distinctions of experiences collapses, because all you. So when you become the moment nothing happens, it is just you. You are happening. But, ironically you are nothing thats why every happening is you as nothing. Thats why nothing is happening (simultaneously 2 meaning). Thats why big bang never happened , it so called happened because of the thoughts, naming and labeling. Lol ? Unbelievable. This is the void or before the big bang, that nothingness, now. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

28 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@VeganAwake Sure the individual story can cease, but that doesn't mean its not a one tone happening so to say, or the senses stop functioning and there's no quality of anything.

 

I see what you mean...

In a sense it does become a one tone happening because it's recognized only thought makes distinctions about one quality or another.

See the sense of self might believe the quality of watching the sunset on the beach drinking a mai tai would be a better quality than getting lets say a flat tire while driving to work. Yes they appear as different experiences but the quality of the experience is only a thought or a preferential judgement  being created by the mind.

 when there is no preference or quality everything is just appearing as it is. 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

The main reason I avoid saying everything is self.... is because it was recognized there isn't one first of all...

And secondly it gives hope for the separate sense of self that there is a way for it to survive.

See the sense of self wants to experience Awakening without dying.

But this is impossible because Awakening is the collapsing of the sense of self.

When the sense of self actually collapses it doesn't fully go away it's grasping on to anything that will keep it alive... it's favorite thing to grasp ahold of is the notion that it's the new true self higher self higher consciousness, awareness, God.

It becomes the new spiritual do-gooder self and why would you want to get rid of that it's so good.

This is how cunning the mind or sense of self is.

It does not die easily ❤ and sometimes it does ?

[Mu_]

27 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I see what you mean...

In a sense it does become a one tone happening because it's recognized only thought makes distinctions about one quality or another.

See the sense of self might believe the quality of watching the sunset on the beach drinking a mai tai would be a better quality than getting lets say a flat tire while driving to work. Yes they appear as different experiences but the quality of the experience is only a thought or a preferential judgement  being created by the mind.

 when there is no preference or quality everything is just appearing as it is. 

 

So if you ate a piece of shit in between two pieces of bread, it would be no different then eating salami?  There would be no color, no texture, no smell, no taste arising as whats happening?

[VeganAwake]

15 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

So if you ate a piece of shit in between two pieces of bread, it would be no different then eating salami?  There would be no color, no texture, no smell, no taste arising as whats happening?

Lol...Well that would just be what's apparently happening... it wouldn't mean that its better or worse than any other situation... it's not like the body becomes stupid.. it knows that eating something like s*** could make it ill. Same as eating spoiled salami.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Mu_]

37 minutes ago, James123 said:

I dont refer to say as “If animal bites my leg”. When animal bites the leg, i am the pain. There is no feeling trough the body, because there is no body. Whatever happens in the moment thats what you are (feelings, thoughts, sensations vs). When all happening is you, distinctions of experiences collapses, because all you. So when you become the moment nothing happens, it is just you. You are happening. But, ironically you are nothing thats why every happening is you as nothing. Thats why nothing is happening (simultaneously 2 meaning). Thats why big bang never happened , it so called happened because of the thoughts, naming and labeling. Lol ? Unbelievable. This is the void or before the big bang, that nothingness, now. 

I can understand through my own awakening what you mean, there's just a different language expressed on subtleties.

Like Yes the moment of you happening (feelings, thoughts, sensations) is what you are, and your the infinite interpretations, infinite view points, infinite births and deaths, the labeling, the naming, everything!!! theres nothing thats not "You", the falling away of distinctions and the distinctions, which is just you.  The beautiful smell or breaking out in hives reaction to smelling a rose, the stinky or pleasant odor of baby shit, the perspective of no-mind, the happening of void/nothingness, the falling away of all distinctions, the forgetting of that and the feeling of being human and the infinite ways that can feel.

[James123]

30 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

the happening of void/nothingness, the falling away of all distinctions, the forgetting of that and the feeling of being human and the infinite ways that can feel

Yes. Thats it. But after awakening mind doesn’t come back, duality becomes a thought, you become non duality all happens within you as you. Not knowing becomes inevitable. Because identification of birth, happen with start knowing or learning. When you dont know. You never born or begin. Just you.

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[Mu_]

Enjoy,@James123

[VeganAwake]

That still sounds like the dream or at least a misunderstanding.

It sounds like subtle dualism using non-dual phrasing and words.

Basically if there is still a belief that there is a separate someone or something experiencing these happenings and taking ownership of them ...that's the dream.

Because what's being said is the 'self' is what's being directly experienced by the body. 

For example you're not aware of what the neighbors are smelling right now you're not aware of what's happening in Madrid Spain at the supermarket.

There's only awareness of that particular body/mind organisms experience, whether that be touch taste smell sight sound or the dream story.

So if you want to claim that the you is just the experience of one body mind organism that's fine.... it's what's being experienced there.

It's just not at all what this communication is pointing to.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by VeganAwake

[James123]

27 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Enjoy,@James123

Thanks. You too ?

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, OmniYoga said:

@Gesundheit how? xP

First of all you need to make sure you've questioned the materialist paradigm to death. You must reach a level where have no doubts that it's just a paradigm or an idea that you hold in your mind. This should become crystal clear to you at least intellectually.

And then by practicing mindfulness and focusing awareness on the mere fact that you actually exist, that there is something here being experienced, that'll create moments of epiphany, which should stick.

You could watch some videos on YouTube for assistance.

There's a lot of techniques but I recommend you stick with a few even though it's good to practice some of the others occasionally.

[OmniYoga]

@Gesundheit

Quote

"Where's the proof of this Greater Reality?" you ask. I offer only an analogy. A battery of
scientists can get together and tell you about all the scientific proof for the fact that bananas
are bitter. But all you have to do is taste one, once, to realize that there is this whole other
aspect to bananas. Ultimately, proof lies not in intellectual arguments, but in being touched in
some way by the sacred within and without.  

that is the thing, I've never experienced anything that is beyond materialist paradigm or anything different than that, therefore don't ask me to convince myself that is not true,
also I don't hold a belief that I "exist" - that might be just a simulation or recalled memory of myself from the past played on some alien's server - there is no way to validate that this reality is "real" as far I as know, I am open minded about it,

as you can see I'm destined to continue my "search", until I taste on my own the sweetness of banana
 

@Ananta I know what he is saying at least at conceptual mind level, but that doesn't change my life experience that much

Edited July 23, 2020 by OmniYoga

[The0Self]

On 7/21/2020 at 7:15 PM, OmniYoga said:

is there any way to experience non-duality state ? without psychedelics?
how can I do this ?

 

is all those terms are the same or there is a difference ?
non-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind

Sit quietly and still. Everything you experience... who is it that is experiencing it? It isn’t the experience itself, because YOU are experiencing it. Therefore, anything you see isn’t you. Know that deeply and see everything as not-self, not-me, and not-mine. Everything. You will need to get creative with just how much “everything“ entails. Everything including the minute intentions to do this very practice — like a snake eating it’s own tail. This is the most powerful method I know of besides Jhana (which can take a lot of time and talent) as well as LSD, 5-MeO, nitrous, and ketamine.

[Ananta]

13 hours ago, OmniYoga said:

@Ananta I know what he is saying at least at conceptual mind level, but that doesn't change my life experience that much

It's the one that wants their life experience changed that needs to be seen through. 

In a moment to moment "experience" the best you can get is knowing what you (awareness) are and what you are/were identified with, as you, but was/is actually the false self. This allows a traveling lighter through experiences.

Disentangle your identification with the little "me", not in the sense that you stop living, breathing, thinking, feeling...but, that when needed you readily "know" that that is not your true identity. 

?