non-duality & spiritual language

[OmniYoga]

is there any way to experience non-duality state ? without psychedelics?
how can I do this ?

 

is all those terms are the same or there is a difference ?
non-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind

[James123]

11 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

on-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind

Identical.

11 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

 

is there any way to experience non-duality state ? without psychedelics?
how can I do this ?

 

You must  realize “You” is an illusion. Meditate in silence, and dont be attached the thoughts, just watch them during the day for now. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by James123

[OmniYoga]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

You must  realize “You” is an illusion. Meditate in silence, and dont be attached the thoughts, just watch them during the day for now. 

that is not very efficient i do that for few years now, with very slightly progress  

[James123]

7 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

that is not very efficient i do that for few years now, with very slightly progress  

Because you are attached to them, which mean is naming and labeling. You should stay as a  witness. Otherwise, It can take decades like that  nothing personal.

Edited July 21, 2020 by James123

[Artsu]

It depends how developed your consciousness is at this point.

Do you have spiritual experiences more broadly speaking?

Edited July 22, 2020 by Artsu

[OmniYoga]

@Artsu you will need to tell me what do you mean by "spiritual experiences" first

@James123 I'm not sure what do mean by attached to them - I am aware of thoughts after a while, that the mind is producing some stream of thougths, I can catch myself in it and stop, let go,  but I miss the moment when they aring, only after the fact, they take my by surprise

Edited July 22, 2020 by OmniYoga

[Ananta]

 

2min, 43sec

If this vid doesn't help, then watch a longer 30-60 minute Self-inquiry video Swami Sarvapriyananda is very good if you want to watch a few of his vids.

[James123]

13 minutes ago, OmniYoga said:

 but I miss the moment when they aring, only after the fact, they take my by surprise

Thats the key. You must be aware of every moment during the day even while you are going to sleep.

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, OmniYoga said:

is there any way to experience non-duality state ? without psychedelics?
how can I do this ?

 

Yes....by looking closely!!

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought Arising? If not, where is any Direct or Actual Experience of some sense of self?

 

[Gesundheit]

The thing is that you're already experiencing non-duality. Only you aren't aware of that. Life is a mystical experience, not any different than a dream. The materialist paradigm is probably the main reason for why most people don't see this obvious fact. Most people see life as a mundane thing when it's actually the strangest thing ever. Train your awareness to see the mystical nature of reality in the present moment. That'll increase your consciousness. At some point you will have an epiphany that: Of course! It has always been mystical! 

[VeganAwake]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

The thing is that you're already experiencing non-duality. Only you aren't aware of that. Life is a mystical experience, not any different than a dream. The materialist paradigm is probably the main reason for why most people don't see this obvious fact. Most people see life as a mundane thing when it's actually the strangest thing ever. Train your awareness to see the mystical nature of reality in the present moment. That'll increase your consciousness. At some point you will have an epiphany that: Of course! It has always been mystical! 

Nice ? like it..

Yes when the Seeker collapses it's recognized non-duality is all there ever has been.

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Identical.

You must  realize “You” is an illusion. Meditate in silence, and dont be attached the thoughts, just watch them during the day for now. 

I wouldn't be so sure they are the same.  Sure in the Totality of ALL, everything is the same, but the experience of each of those, its very very different, and thats part of the fun and beauty of those and all experiences.

"on-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind"

Sure there is and will be similarity and overlap, but some can be so radically different, you will question deeply in your soul if you were mistaken about what you thought you knew or if you were deluding yourself, or just what the fuck....  and then again perhaps not

[James123]

50 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

wouldn't be so sure they are the same.  Sure in the Totality of ALL, everything is the same, but the experience of each of those, its very very different, and thats part of the fun and beauty of those and all experienc

You are the experience itself. There is no “you” to experience something.

50 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

on-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind"

Sure there is and will be similarity and overlap, but some can be so radically different, you will question deeply in your soul if you were mistaken about what you thought you knew or if you were deluding yourself, or just what the fuck....  and then again perhaps not

These sentences, life, universe are just thoughts. In order to become non duality, so called mind must be gone. Non duality is the moment, which is me. Do you think there is you and in the world now?

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

You are the experience itself. There is no “you” to experience something.

These sentences, life, universe are just thoughts. In order to become non duality, so called mind must be gone. Non duality is the moment, which is me. Do you think there is you and in the world now?

Yes we are the experience, and you ever notice that experience isn't one shade of experience?  It has a multitude of dimension and quality?  Call it what you want, thought, universe, life, god, no-me, its got a quality of experiencing.....  like different VR helmets.

 

[Nak Khid]

4 hours ago, OmniYoga said:

is there any way to experience non-duality state ? without psychedelics?
how can I do this ?

 

is all those terms are the same or there is a difference ?
non-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind

The  psychedelic experience is additive 
It's visionary like a trance or waking dream state

A nondual state is reductive 
This is where you step back into a place of observation 
You experience thoughts and feelings but at a distance 
that is one method
Another method is to focus on one point or sound repetitively 
This is similar to trance state but it is a reductive one, not to emptiness but to a single point 

If you want to enter into a visionary state like a psychedelic one 
that can be done by certain methods including ones that don't require taking a chemical 
but I wouldn't call it a nondual state 

A meditation on God is a point of concentration focus , It's reductive to this one point of focus 

A nondual state is a form of acute awareness of the present moment and it's impermanence
not focusing on one point 

 

 

 

 

[James123]

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Yes we are the experience, and you ever notice that experience isn't one shade of experience?  It has a multitude of dimension and quality?  Call it what you want, thought, universe, life, god, no-me, its got a quality of experiencing.....  like different VR helmets.

 

 There is no such a thing as dimension, multitude, quality or state. Because, mind, being human, universe and entire duality is an illusion. There is no eye to see anything. So if mind is an illusion, real question is there such a thing as an experience? When you are experience itself, there is nothing except yourself. So experiencing something  or experience itself is an illusion. Because it is you. There is no experiencer and experienced, because all is you. When everything happens as you it has 2 meanings,

First, all happening is you, therefore when everything happens as you nothing happens or everything happens as nothing. (Going to shower, driving, vs no differences, because no mind to experience anything, i am the experience itself). 

Second is, you are nothing, Thats the reason why every happening is you. But both meanings are identical and complete each other even if they are completely opposite. Because you are nothing, nothing is nothing and simultaneously everything , therefore now. Thats why nothing is happening right now, and therefore nothing ever happened or something never happened. Because, Never begin to be something. 
 

But, mind must be gone to realize this. Your entire life or experiences is just a thought.

Edited July 22, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

Yes the seeking for a better position in life ends because it's recognized every position was already it, which simultaneously makes the word 'position' non-applicable... there can't be a real position for everything and nothing.

It's to die before you die... it's the collapsing of the illusion that believed it would one day find something called fulfillment/enlightenment in the future.

It's unconditional freedom and love for No One.

 

[Mu_]

8 hours ago, James123 said:

 There is no such a thing as dimension, multitude, quality or state. Because, mind, being human, universe and entire duality is an illusion. There is no eye to see anything. So if mind is an illusion, real question is there such a thing as an experience? When you are experience itself, there is nothing except yourself. So experiencing something  or experience itself is an illusion. Because it is you. There is no experiencer and experienced, because all is you. When everything happens as you it has 2 meanings,

First, all happening is you, therefore when everything happens as you nothing happens or everything happens as nothing. (Going to shower, driving, vs no differences, because no mind to experience anything, i am the experience itself). 

Second is, you are nothing, Thats the reason why every happening is you. But both meanings are identical and complete each other even if they are completely opposite. Because you are nothing, nothing is nothing and simultaneously everything , therefore now. Thats why nothing is happening right now, and therefore nothing ever happened or something never happened. Because, Never begin to be something. 
 

But, mind must be gone to realize this. Your entire life or experiences is just a thought.

Just out of curiosity is this something your citing or know through awakening or experience?

I mostly agree either way.  

I'll just add a few things to the topic as well and then clarify my original post.

The happening of "You" can be phrased in many different ways and metaphors none of which are fully able to encompass the totality of "Itself".  Words like "everything" and "nothing" aren't real things so to say in and of themselves, but within our communication now, are metaphors pointing to ".......", which isn't a something, everything or a nothing (again just words pointing).  Some call the way of pointing I'm pointing to, lol, as "nothing can really be said", or "silence is the answer".

Now back to my original post and using the word "experience".  To translate it in the metaphors you use above, I'd say this.  Yes all "experience" is "You" and while you can say there for it doesn't happen since its just a Now, none the less I'd argue that the "Now of taking a ice bath, feels slightly different then the Now of eating a sandwich".

I mean if you doubt me, test it out, and I'd honestly be curious if you didn't feel anything different within the Now experiment".

[OmniYoga]

13 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

 Train your awareness to see the mystical nature of reality in the present moment.

@Gesundheit how? xP

[Seraphim]

@OmniYoga You could try a guided meditation. When you become aware of the absolute it will feel very blissful, you will begin to sense something that was not there before. When I first sensed it after a deep meditation, my future was decided, I absolutely had to find that again and feel it all the time hehe

Edited July 22, 2020 by Seraphim