Percentages and Ages of Spiral Dynamics Stages

[Artsu]

On 23/07/2020 at 2:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

Reaching the Tier 2 stages will require most people more time.

Yellow and Turquoise at 26 would be pretty rare because most people at that age are still just starting to get a handle on Orange and Green.

I didn't even know Turquoise existed until my 30's.

It's important to give people time to grow.

I have looked into various models. I completed the 8th circuit, activated infinite mystery, coral, post-Self consciousness at 26. I have since gone up 1 stage.

So now my frontier is 2 above turquoise, i think, but my baseline is probably kicking back in yellow. I have basically overcome the pitfalls of purple and red, and am starting to overcome blue. I will likely retain a fair degree of orange for study and work, and blue for social purposes, but hopefully this won't impede my progress too much.

[Artsu]

Ugh I'm confused again about spiral dynamics.

I can see how my personal development lines up with SD, with the exception of green.

I can see how i was orange at 17. I was an achiever. Then i went through a massive shift. A few years later i was cosmocentric.

I went through a few big changes in that time period. I can see how i was yellow when i was 22 or so, but my green phase seems different?

I have journals from this time, so when i find them i will get s better idea of my worldview at that time.

[lmfao]

@Artsu sounds like you need to crumple your piece of paper and Kobe Bryant it into the bin. 

[Carl-Richard]

@Artsu 

The key features of green is a deep resentment towards orange and lower stages. Try to really look for that resentment. Tier 1 loves hating on other stages. I'll give you my story, maybe that will help :

I remember when I was smoking weed between 17-20 years old, I really started my green journey (pun intended). I was in one way much more openminded than I used to be, but there was also a deep resentment against society, which stemmed from a lack of perspective and selfishness.

I started to resent meritocracy, successful people, certain cultural norms and laws, institutions etc.. I would look at my physics teacher in high school who had a PhD, and I would think "pfft who does he think he is by having a PhD? He doesn't know what I know about spirituality". 

During that time, I was also lashing back at the blue values instilled in me by my mother who was more strict than most parents:

I tended to lean towards having an avoidant personality, especially when facing rejection, and I remember asking my mom for buying a subscription to my favorite online game at 11 years old which my closest friend also had, but I wasn't allowed because it was for ages 12 and above. I was never allowed my own candy, not even during the weekends, only during the holidays. I was essentially forced to play soccer until I quit at 14 years old.

I essentially turned into a hyper-hedonistic anarchist stoner; entering stage green with a big red shadow.

My main focus back then was "feel-good spirituality" and lots of philosophizing about far-out ideas. I got extremely interested in philosophy, neuroscience, pharmacology, and later "real" spirituality. After trying LSD 3 times at 18 years old, I must have started flirting with yellow while philosophizing.

The unhinged hedonism and immature spirituality became stale pretty fast, and I quickly got introduced to turquoise when I first meditated and had a non-dual glimpse at 19 years old. That is when I lost a lot of that resentment towards other perspectives. I was never a particularly angry person, but after that point, I had established a deep connection to a sense of peace.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Arcangelo]

Haha! all of y'all need to go back and understand that the ego likes to think it is 2 stages above so for the guy saying he was yellow at his late teens: Come on man be real with yourself.

 

You are not lying to us you are lying to yourself.

 

 

Arc

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Haha! all of y'all need to go back and understand that the ego likes to think it is 2 stages above so for the guy saying he was yellow at his late teens: Come on man be real with yourself.

Flirting with yellow != being fully established in yellow . I was having some deep insights into relativity, but they were infrequent and didn't stick. Notice I'm trying to be careful with the words I'm using: "flirting with", "introduced" etc..

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Artsu]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Artsu 

The key features of green is a deep resentment towards orange and lower stages. Try to really look for that resentment. Tier 1 loves hating on other stages. I'll give you my story, maybe that will help :

I remember when I was smoking weed between 17-20 years old, I really started my green journey (pun intended). I was in one way much more openminded than I used to be, but there was also a deep resentment against society, which stemmed from a lack of perspective and selfishness.

I started to resent meritocracy, successful people, certain cultural norms and laws, institutions etc.. I would look at my physics teacher in high school who had a PhD, and I would think "pfft who does he think he is by having a PhD? He doesn't know what I know about spirituality". 

During that time, I was also lashing back at the blue values instilled in me by my mother who was more strict than most parents. I essentially turned into a hyper-hedonistic anarchist stoner; entering stage green with a big red shadow. 

My main focus back then was "feel-good spirituality" and lots of philosophizing about far-out ideas. I got extremely interested in philosophy, neuroscience, pharmacology, and later "real" spirituality. After trying LSD 3 times at 18 years old, I must have started flirting with yellow while philosophizing.

The unhinged hedonism and immature spirituality became stale pretty fast, and I quickly got introduced to turquoise when I first meditated and had a non-dual glimpse at 19 years old. That is when I lost a lot of that resentment towards other perspectives. I was never a particularly angry person, but after that point, I had established a deep connection to a sense of peace.

Were you actually developing turquoise at 19, or were you just aware of turquoise philosophies for instance?

I was heavily yellow at 24, but i was researching yellow things from age 15 or so. Its just i couldnt understand the essence of those things at the time. 

8 circuits of consciousness was a good model for when i was activating circuit 8. Pod'lair (and other things) got me through to infinite mystery. When i stumbled upon spiral dynamics, it sounded to me like i was newly into turquoise.  Now i have progressed at least one level, maybe 2.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Artsu

[Artsu]

I just realised, that at each stage, a person will still seem like they are at the stage below, because they havent learnt the level well enough to embody it. However after a few years of activation, you will be able to embody it.

I am viewing the stages in terms of different psychological modes of being,  but also behavioural manifestations and associated cultural elements.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Artsu

[Artsu]

28 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Haha! all of y'all need to go back and understand that the ego likes to think it is 2 stages above so for the guy saying he was yellow at his late teens: Come on man be real with yourself.

 

You are not lying to us you are lying to yourself.

 

 

Arc

I can go 2 levels beyond circuit 8, so a hypothetical 10th circuit, but if i could sustain it all the time i wouldnt be sitting here discussing the model.

 

Edit

View the culmination of these models as generally being cosmos centric, and then perhaps one higher stage.

Coral, infinite mystery, higher circuits, deeper layers of the collective unconscious or self transcendence. That is the frontier of these models.

Beyond this, synchronicity helps.

 

*cosmos centric is turquoise, 8th circuit, cosmos (Pod'lair), and has been associated with self transcendence

Edited July 29, 2020 by Artsu

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Were you actually developing turquoise at 19, or were you just aware of turquoise philosophies for instance?

The only thing I knew about enlightenment back then was that it was a thing. Literally nothing else. I had spent a week doing active mindfulness exercises, and then I decided to meditate for real. On the 3rd meditation, I reached a state where my mind became totally silent and it started to feel like my body was turning hollow and that I was going to disappear forever and never come back. Very blissful, but terrifying, so I stopped it out of fear.

I then started googling what was going on, and I didn't think that it had anything to do with enlightenment, but I was wrong. I didn't turn into a saint or anything, but it changed me forever. Weed stopped being fun, I had less cravings for stimulation, less boredom, less fear, social anxiety almost disappeared.

What really happened after that is that I became acutely aware of what I later learned is called "dukkha" in Buddhism: the fact that every moment is filled with an innate sense of dissatisfaction, and you're always trying to alleviate the subsequent pain by seeking new objects and events. It intuitively showed me the path out of that endless cycle, and it gave my life a new sense of purpose and meaning.

It was only later when I discovered people like Sadhguru, Alan Watts and Rupert Spira that I started to conceptualize the experiences I was having. I entered the experience of nonduality essentially ignorant, only having watched like three of Leo's videos and listening to Sam Harris talk about meditation.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Artsu]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The only thing I knew about enlightenment back then was that it was a thing. Literally nothing else. I had spent a week doing active mindfulness exercises, and then I decided to meditate for real. On the 3rd meditation, I reached a state where my mind became totally silent and it started to feel like my body was turning hollow and that I was going to disappear forever and never come back. Very blissful, but terrifying, so I stopped it out of fear.

I then started googling what was going on, and I didn't think that it had anything to do with enlightenment, but I was wrong. I didn't turn into a saint or anything, but it changed me forever. Weed stopped being fun, I had less cravings for stimulation, less boredom, less fear, social anxiety almost disappeared.

What really happened after that is that I became acutely aware of what I later learned is called "dukkha" in Buddhism: the fact that every moment is filled with an innate sense of dissatisfaction, and you're always trying to alleviate the subsequent pain by seeking new objects and events. It intuitively showed me the path out of that endless cycle, and it gave my life a new sense of purpose and meaning.

Ok, that pathway is different from what my models says, but i can partly relate. I think this suffering results from not being able to live at the level that our mind is capable of.

I had a major breakthrough at 20 and then again at 21. This i identify as being different stages of green, which is why it might help to divide that level up. 

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Artsu said:

I think this suffering results from not being able to live at the level that our mind is capable of.

Define "suffering" and "mind" please  

[Artsu]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Define "suffering" and "mind" please  

I mean dissatisfaction. Not wanting to be in ones circumstances. This increases as one departs from the world.

Mind i mean very generally. Psyche perhaps. The part of ourself that is the thing going up these stages.

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Artsu said:

I mean dissatisfaction. Not wanting to be in ones circumstances. This increases as one departs from the world.

Mind i mean very generally. Psyche perhaps. The part of ourself that is the thing going up these stages.

Interesting. So essentially, the evolution from lower stages to higher stages is driven by the dissatisfaction that the outdated survival strategies bring to yourself, and aligning yourself with this ever-increasing need for expansion will eventually lead you towards a perfect frictionless state where your capabilities completely lock on to your circumstances (nirvana, Infinite Love etc.). One's own spiral development is essentially a building project: suffering is the currency for buying the raw materials, and the next SD stage is the building plan. The perfect building is built when it's totally transparent and identical to its surroundings; a strange loop. Seems like your concept of suffering and Buddha's concept of suffering are both compatible with the mechanics of SD development  

[Artsu]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Interesting. So essentially, the evolution from lower stages to higher stages is driven by the dissatisfaction that the outdated survival strategies bring to yourself, and aligning yourself with this ever-increasing need for expansion will eventually lead you towards a perfect frictionless state where your capabilities completely lock on to your circumstances (nirvana, Infinite Love etc.). One's own spiral development is essentially a building project: suffering is the currency for buying the raw materials, and the next SD stage is the building plan. The perfect building is built when it's totally transparent and identical to its surroundings; a strange loop. Seems like your concept of suffering and Buddha's concept of suffering are both compatible with the mechanics of SD development  

No thats not what i mean. I am saying the suffering results from being at a consciousness level too high for your surroundings, not that the suffering is driving the thing.

However, there is a kind of longing for paradise that is driving the plan. The longing gives the desire, then you have to set it in motion through exertion.

The metacognitive levels of Self and above are generally not trained for in society. Higher education sometimes gets at it, but for the most part, once you start looking for needs above esteem, they will be harder and harder to come by.

I personally don't know how to meet my needs to get to the next level, i am just waiting for the next wave of inspiration. 

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Artsu said:

No thats not what i mean. I am saying the suffering results from being at a consciousness level too high for your surroundings, not that the suffering is driving the thing.

Aren't we talking about a developmental model here? Suffering drives evolution. That is obviously the case. How can your level of consciousness be too high for your surroundings?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Username]

I was interested in theory which connects everything since I was 15 years old. It doesn't even mean that my green was fully developed. There are lines of development. You can be highly developed in one area and retarded in others. You can be more or less evenly developed.

Good example: scientist who has a yellow theoretical model but his marriage is dysfunctional because he didn't pay attention how relationships work.

Here is an interesting video partially related to the topic:

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Username

[Artsu]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Aren't we talking about a developmental model here? Suffering drives evolution. That is obviously the case. How can your level of consciousness be too high for your surroundings?

Whether suffering drives evolution, it's not what i was saying. Yes being in poor circumstances leads someone to often try to better their circumstances.

Too high... well if one is in an orange society, but is much higher, one will feel unfulfilled because of having to play the orange game, without much higher outlets. Stuff like that.

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Too high... well if one is in an orange society, but is much higher, one will feel unfulfilled because of having to play the orange game, without much higher outlets. Stuff like that.

Will a stage turquoise person experience more suffering than a stage orange person in today's society?

[Artsu]

59 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Will a stage turquoise person experience more suffering than a stage orange person in today's society?

I think so yes (on average of course).