The reason why narcissists never say "Thank you"

[Ook]

I had always wondered why narcissists never showed gratitude. Here's a really insightful video that explains it:

Btw i'm really happy Leo shared Dr. Ramani's videos on his blog! She's amazing!

Edited July 20, 2020 by Ook

[Rilles]

neither do they say "im sorry"

[Ook]

@Rilles True

[Epikur]

Is this true? A educated narcissist might play the game to get what he wants, no?

[VerballyHazardous]

@Ook 

Woah.

The restaurant story just sound like normal life to me.

[Epikur]

22 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Is this true? A educated narcissist might play the game to get what he wants, no?

Ok I saw the video. They can play the game if they get validation out of it but this seems to the case with normal people too.

Sometimes you do your job why it is necessary to be "nice" if it hurts your job?
 

 

[Gesundheit]

The problem with this kind of categorization is that it is very black and white. It assumes that the human psyche is not a paradox of two opposing forces but either or. Thanks to Wilber and Graves and the others we know that that's out of date. Modern understanding is more of a spectrum and it's way more accurate and better at solving such problems.

No one is a 100% narcissist. At the core of every narcissistic psyche there is deep empathy. That empathy can be revived and brought back to balance with the narcissistic trait through understanding and therapy.

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

The problem with this kind of categorization is that it is very black and white. It assumes that the human psyche is not a paradox of two opposing forces but either or. Thanks to Wilber and Graves and the others we know that that's out of date. Modern understanding is more of a spectrum and it's way more accurate and better at solving such problems.

No one is a 100% narcissist. At the core of every narcissistic psyche there is deep empathy. That empathy can be revived and brought back to balance with the narcissistic trait through understanding and therapy.

I guess in some extrem cases it's more clear. Then the victim got blinded and groomed by charm and power.

[Ook]

@VerballyHazardous Omg that's unfortunate 

[Preety_India]

Neither do they say "sorry" or "please" 

They are like Trump or Trump is like them. 

They only say everything is tremendous and bigly. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Preety_India

[Forestluv]

Based on my experience of being in a relationship with a solid narcissist. . . She would not say “thank you” because in her mentality, saying “thank you” means that she would owe the person something. I often did kind things for her and she never showed any appreciation. It was as if I owed it to her and she doesn’t want to owe me anything. 

As well, narcissists will not accept any personal responsibility. Saying “I’m sorry” is a form of taking personal responsibility. The narcissist I dated absolutely refused to take any responsibility. One time, I tested how far she would go. We had an issue that we both were contributing to and she wanted to place 100% of the blame on me. I said I was willing to take 90% responsibility for our problem and I spent several minutes explaining how I contributed to the problem and how I need to improve. I then asked if she would take 10% and look at herself. She refused. I then said I would take 99.9% responsibility as being at fault for all the problems we’ve ever had in the relationship. I asked if there was even ONE thing she had ever done that may have contributed to any problem we had and she gave a firm “No”. She was 100% absolute that she would not take any responsibility under any circumstance. Therefore, she never needs to say “I’m sorry”.

This narcissistic dynamic is clearly prevalent with Trump. He deflects 100% responsibility onto to others. Yet he will take 100% credit away from others. 

[Roy]

49 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

The narcissist I dated absolutely refused to take any responsibility. One time, I tested how far she would go. We had an issue that we both were contributing to and she wanted to place 100% of the blame on me. I said I was willing to take 90% responsibility for our problem and I spent several minutes explaining how I contributed to the problem and how I need to improve. I then asked if she would take 10% responsibility and look at herself. She refused. I then said I would take 99.9% responsibility as being at fault for all the problems we’ve ever had in the relationship. I asked if there was even ONE thing she had ever done that may have contributed to any problem we had and she gave a firm “No”. She was 100% absolute that she would not take any responsibility under any circumstance. Therefore, she never needs to say “I’m sorry”.

Damn that's rough mate. I'm sorry for my language but that's almost comical picturing saying you'd take 99.9% and then get a firm "NO" to the 0.1% lol.

[Epikur]

Quote

. Of the eighteen personality dimensions, narcissism was found to have the highest heritability (0.64), indicating that the concordance of this trait in the identical twins was significantly influenced by genetics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

[Leo Gura]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:16 AM, Gesundheit said:

The problem with this kind of categorization is that it is very black and white. It assumes that the human psyche is not a paradox of two opposing forces but either or. Thanks to Wilber and Graves and the others we know that that's out of date. Modern understanding is more of a spectrum and it's way more accurate and better at solving such problems.

No one is a 100% narcissist. At the core of every narcissistic psyche there is deep empathy. That empathy can be revived and brought back to balance with the narcissistic trait through understanding and therapy.

This is an important point. I agree with this.

The human psyche is far too complex to simply fall into 4 categories like: "sociopath", "psychopath", "narcissist", and "normie". It's a complex blend of thousands of variables which no psychologist fully understands.

Yet still, some people are just straight up flaming narcissists.

My Dad was a pretty serious narcissist/sociopath.

17 hours ago, Forestluv said:

One time, I tested how far she would go. We had an issue that we both were contributing to and she wanted to place 100% of the blame on me. I said I was willing to take 90% responsibility for our problem and I spent several minutes explaining how I contributed to the problem and how I need to improve. I then asked if she would take 10% and look at herself. She refused. I then said I would take 99.9% responsibility as being at fault for all the problems we’ve ever had in the relationship. I asked if there was even ONE thing she had ever done that may have contributed to any problem we had and she gave a firm “No”.

Hehehe....

That's golden.

[Ook]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My Dad was a pretty serious narcissist/sociopath.

How did you deal with him? Was it possible to teach your dad empathy?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Ook said:

How did you deal with him? Was it possible to teach your dad empathy?

No

Haven't spoken to him in 10 years. Such people cannot be fixed.

[remember]

@Forestluv i really also have an issue with feeling disowned, sometimes, because my dad is a narcissist, it’s also that narcissists like to take all positive credit while not wanting to take negative credit. well who likes to take negative credit? narcissists are often not able to compromise though - that’s the same observation like the one you made. it took me years to find out what the problem with my dad was.

i also have an issue with saying thank you for big things while i can say thank you for small things - this is not because of credit but because i feel intimidated by huge gestures but likewise feel strange if i help others and they are overly thankful - it’s also a bit of a cultural thing though and also what is taken for granted in a group for example. if you are in a give give relationship, most people don’t say thank you all the time and rather answer with a smile or a hug depending on how intimate a relationship is or what rules are established in a group - how people make gifts and say thank you is a really interesting cultural study.

Edited July 21, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

@remember  saying and feeling can be two different things. 

For example, even if you don't say thank you explicitly, I am guessing you must feel a sentiment of gratitude toward the other. 

This means you have empathy which narcissists lack. They don't feel a sentiment of gratitude and if any feelings arise, they squish it with some cheap rationalization such as "oh he must have done this because he also had something to gain out of this" because they project their own superficial selfishness on others, they are Incapable of feeling the depth of selflessness or sensitivity. 

 

[remember]

@Preety_India mhh yes. although the selflessness part is def affected if you experience narcissism in a relationship. its a really difficult combination of selfishness and selflessness, i guess it stains a bit - at least it feels like that. maybe it’s the guilt and identification part, and taking responsibility 100% which no person can do.

mhh edit: i mean it’s difficult to stay selfless when you experience a narcissist day in and out, while on the other side its triggering selflessness - see i can’t even say it’s about me, i use the possibility to generalize it.

Edited July 21, 2020 by remember

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

saying and feeling can be two different things. 

For example, even if you don't say thank you explicitly, I am guessing you must feel a sentiment of gratitude toward the other. 

This means you have empathy which narcissists lack. They don't feel a sentiment of gratitude and if any feelings arise, they squish it with some cheap rationalization such as "oh he must have done this because he also had something to gain out of this" because they project their own superficial selfishness on others, they are Incapable of feeling the depth of selflessness or sensitivity. 

For sure. Someone could say “Thank you” and not really feel it. Another person may feel gratitude and appreciation, yet not express it in words. It reminds me of the different love languages. Some people may express gratitude through acts of kindness, rather than words. 

This is one thing that threw me off with my narcissistic ex. She would tell me that she expresses caring and gratitude differently than I expect. For example, she had three children, was working a full time job and a part-time graduate student. She would tell me, that creating time to see me was an act of caring, gratitude, giving etc.