Singularity - Yay Or Nay

[Guest username]

@ChimpBrain While the nature of conciousness isn't the entire foundation of the idea of a technological singularity, it is often mentioned in tandem. It largely has to do with the transhuman ambition to download and transfer consciousness, which is often mentioned as one of the many purported consequences of a singularity, though far from being all the issue is about.

[ChimpBrain]

57 minutes ago, username said:

@ChimpBrain While the nature of conciousness isn't the entire foundation of the idea of a technological singularity, it is often mentioned in tandem. It largely has to do with the transhuman ambition to download and transfer consciousness, which is often mentioned as one of the many purported consequences of a singularity, though far from being all the issue is about.

Yeah you're right, there seems to be a few separate but parallel arguments going on at once, and the OP does specifically mention transhumanism, my bad. I still think the idea that we AREN'T going to eventually merge with technology seems naive. This whole life extension stuff with Aubrey de Grey and the transhumanism stuff has me really intrigued. What kind of self improvement and wisdom could you achieve if you lived for a thousand years!?

[electroBeam]

On 31/07/2016 at 3:23 AM, Siim Land said:

At what point do you think this shift will occur? At what point can we say that we're no longer Homo Sapiens Sapiens but Post-Human instead?

When a monolith suddenly appears off the orbit of jupiter

[Guest username]

@ChimpBrain Yeah, "I myself" would really like biological life extension. Not nearly enough time to explore the vastness of this world in such a sort timeframe, it feels.

[Will Bigger]

Maybe in a thousand years. But, first, as Leo stated, science needs to understand consciousness- and it doesn't appear to be this generation's bunch of atheists who will figure it out.

"Science advances one funeral at a time."

- Max Planck

[Philip]

@DrMatthewsausage

On 8/4/2016 at 3:27 PM, DrMatthewsausage said:

Any books or people that you recommend I look into?

When I think about it, the most convincing stuff isn't even their opinions. It's their achievements. Look up Demis Hassabis from DeepMind. Their company was founded 5 years ago and they've already made a neural network that learned to be the best Atari gamer in the world. It learned it from scratch. If that doesn't strike you with awe, fear or deep concern, I don't know what will.

@Extreme Z7

On 8/5/2016 at 8:39 PM, Extreme Z7 said:

The universe does not exist and neither does death, you are not even a human being. If you can really grasp these things then human extinction will become a complete non-issue.

You're just switching debate like Leo did. Conversation 101, dude. I like what you're saying, but it doesn't belong here. There's a whole forum section for enlightenment stuff.

@username

On 8/5/2016 at 8:54 PM, username said:

It largely has to do with the transhuman ambition to download and transfer consciousness

Yes, consciousness may matter to us if we want to transfer it. I, for one, don't. I want to become transhuman, but by incremental operations, from which I wake up like after a good night of sleep. If you're not afraid to go to sleep every night, to die and then to wake up as a slightly different person, like you've been doing since you're born, then you're not afraid of my plan to become transhuman.

@Will Bigger

12 hours ago, Will Bigger said:

Maybe in a thousand years

Again, look up Demis Hassabis and get your mind blown.

12 hours ago, Will Bigger said:

But, first, as Leo stated, science needs to understand consciousness

Again, consciousness doesn't have to be involved at all. You can become a robot by having multiple minor surgeries and nanobot injections. It's like going to sleep and waking up a little bit different each time.

[David1]

@Philip you can look at the human body as a robot allready. A cell is in fact a nanobot, and biotechnology is nanotechnology. We don't have to invent the wheel again, we just have to improve it. There is no need to upload consciousness into another substrate, we just have to find ways to improve our brain, immune system etc.

[electroBeam]

@username upload consciousness???????? What the hell does that even mean?

[Guest username]

@electroBeam People, such as Kurzweil, suspect conciousness is created by neurons in the brain and hypothesize that it could be replicated digitally and stored in a computer.

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by username

[-nbolt-]

the types of neural networks which are used in most modern AI have zero consciousness, no matter how complex they become, even if they're able to replicate 'human' behavior to certain extent. so we definitely need a huge breakthrough in this area before a singularity event can really be discussed. Leo is right in that we have absolutely no idea how consciousness works, and I'm not sure the realm of standard computation is going to get us there. I also believe the idea is mostly moot because no matter how you obtain or bring consciousness into being, it will always be faced with the ultimate inability to truly define itself, and thus the path to enlightenment is born.

Edited August 7, 2016 by saiko

[ChimpBrain]

On 8/5/2016 at 7:54 PM, username said:

@ChimpBrain

Edited August 7, 2016 by ChimpBrain

[ChimpBrain]

^ that was an accident I can't figure out how to undo. I have issues with using a mobile on this site. 

 

I'm Going to post the actual definitions of technological singularity and transhumanism tomorrow when I get back to a computer so we all stop arguing past each other and get to the core of each proposition. Seems to be a lot of conflating the two going on in here. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

To get a human mind to interface with computer software is hundreds of years away. To even speak about that would require a complete understanding of consciousness.

No AI that you write, no matter how good, will interface with the human mind unless you first crack the code of what the human mind is. And judging by the lack of serious consciousness students in this thread, it will take thousands of years, not hundreds. Because you aren't even looking in the right place.

You can build AIs all you want. But that has nothing to do with downloading yourself into a computer. The notion itself is ridiculous. The thing you're trying to download doesn't even exist! The problem is that you don't understand that yet. If ever you do come to understand it, you'll just start laughing your ass off at how silly this whole notion is. It's like a child developing a scheme to suck the imaginary monster from under his bed into a vacuum cleaner, Ghostbusters-style. To a conscious adult, it's obviously a deluded scheme based on deeply flawed assumptions about reality.

One day robots may kill us all. But you ain't downloading yourself into a PC. And even if you could, the desire to do so is based completely on ignorance. It would be a step backward, not forward. It's like you're stuck in a low security prison for 30 years, and in your infinite wisdom you decide, "Hey, guys, let's break out of this prison and escape into a max security prison indefinitely."

[Philip]

@username

12 hours ago, username said:

People, such as Kurzweil, suspect conciousness is created by neurons in the brain and hypothesize that it could be replicated digitally and stored in a computer.

If you do a copy/paste with your consciousness, then no problem. You have a clone that thinks like you or whatever and you still get to live. If you do a cut/paste, then the "cut" part means you kill yourself. You don't sound like you're advocating mass suicide, but unfortunately, a lot of people sound like they do.

@Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To get a human mind to interface with computer software is hundreds of years away

No, actually it's been done for the first time recently.

It says brain-to-brain, but actually it's brain-to-computer-to-brain. So it seems like your prediction has an error of hundreds of years.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To even speak about that would require a complete understanding of consciousness.

No AI that you write, no matter how good, will interface with the human mind unless you first crack the code of what the human mind is.

No it doesn't require you to know anything about consciousness. You just have to plug wires at the right place and Boom! You know the internet like the back or your hand. You plug some more and Boom! You have a hundred different senses, instead of the usual five. A few more wires and Boom! Enlightenment can be pursued without all the distractions and traps that usually get in your way when doing self-inquiry. It's obviously simplified, but you get the point.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can build AIs all you want. But that has nothing to do with downloading yourself into a computer. The notion itself is ridiculous.

That's where we totally agree. I want to become a robot by incrementally modifying my brain in a way that I always wake up after the operation and it just felt like a normal nap. This way I don't even have to get into the whole consciousness debate. The key here is incremental change. You're already doing it every night. Why not improve the process?

Edited August 8, 2016 by Philip

[Extreme Z7]

@Philip This is pure stupidity what you're trying to pursue. Even if you do get what you're after with this mind-to-computer unification business, it will still pale in comparison to getting the realizations you can have about reality by pursuing consciousness work. The realizations you can have from it are so mind-blowing that it will make you question just what on Earth you're trying to pursue in life. The core problem with what you're advocating is that it's solely based on ego desire. Question those! Question your ego's DESIRES and question your EGO! QUESTION YOURSELF! Because if you don't, you basically have no chance in grasping, let alone seeing the significance of the following insights:

• In reality, there is only one being. There are no other people, there are no trees, there is no sky, there is no you, just one being that has existed for eternity.
• It is impossible for awareness to not be present.
• Your life has been lived an infinite amount of times and you have lived everyone else's lives an infinite amount of times and will continue to do so for eternity.
• Existential nothingness is synonymous with existential infinity.
• So many others that I haven't discovered yet.

These are not just petty beliefs, if you can just have true comprehension of what these words mean then this whole discussion would become pointless to you. Heck, even I haven't even truly grasped anything that I'm saying. I'm barely a year into my enlightenment journey. Right now, all I have is intellectualizing and beliefs that I've gathered from different spirituality sources. Why am I confident enough to speak as if what I'm saying is truth? Because I've taken it seriously enough in the past months to at least have glimpses and "clicks" in my mind that reveal secrets to existence that have pretty much shattered the normal way "I" Iook at the reality.

Another problem here is that you're underestimating how deep enlightenment is and you don't really recognize how the simplest truths don't necessarily take simple methods to grasp. For example, when I first discovered my true existential self one night (see my actualization journal), I found the realization to be so STUPIDLY SIMPLE that I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that it took me MONTHS of meditation to discover. How much more for all the other realizations that I'm trying to aim for? If I'm not taking this work as seriously as I am now, it would take me decades before I get to see the really deep stuff or possibly not even at all? How much more for you, though? You're chasing something completely freaking petty by comparison. The problem is that I can't explain to you in words just how petty and meaningless it is. You would have to have a complete mind-shift to be able to see it.

You may retort that science and technology would make it far easier to reach these kind of insights but personally, I just don't trust that scientists, who themselves do not really grasp spirituality yet, would create breakthrough technology that would help people become enlightened, at least not at its current state, that's just my personal belief. I recognize that I have extreme ignorance when it comes to science because I don't bother to follow this stuff but I'm going with Leo when he says that science is still lagging far behind.

 

[FirstglimpseOMG]

It's all in the microtubules, ask Stuart Hameroff. It turns out the brain is considerably more intricate and incredible than the A.I. theorists have an inkling of. Microtubules within the neurons are where Hameroff amd Sir Penrose come together with the ORC -OR theory. This quantum stuff all meshes with all the enlightenment stuff with beautiful harmony. Oh yeah, and the math works too.  

Anyhoo, in my opinion Hameroff is spot on.

[Leo Gura]

On 8/7/2016 at 4:51 PM, Philip said:

It says brain-to-brain, but actually it's brain-to-computer-to-brain. So it seems like your prediction has an error of hundreds of years.

That's not an interface. That's like stimulating a muscle by attaching an electrode to it. A far cry from understanding how the muscle actually works.

There will need to be a full understanding of the brain's functions on a micro scale if you're gonna do anything meaningful with consciousness. And the complexity of it will be far far greater than the human genome, which, even though it has been decoded, tells scientists virtually nothing about how to construct a living organism from scratch. The complexity of these things is WAY underappreciated. It's likely that decoding every neuron in the brain will still not be enough, because the brain seems to have billions of sub-neural processes, perhaps even down to resonance on the quantum level.

The reality is that by 2100 we'll still probably not have flying cars. So don't hold your breath.

[vizual]

So many people worried about the future of the "human race" lol. The human race, just another wave in the ocean and there is no way to discern when the wave started, nor when it will end. 

Good luck with uploading your consciousness into a computer. Better yet, tell me when you find your consciousness so we can compare yours to mine.

[Matthew Lamot]

36 minutes ago, vizual said:

Good luck with uploading your consciousness into a computer. Better yet, tell me when you find your consciousness so we can compare yours to mine.

It will be the same one 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Matthew Lamot

[vizual]

14 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

It will be the same one 

No way dude, I do daily meditation, self enquiry, chakra balancing, yoga and prayer. My guru told me my consciousness level is over 9000