The Joy Journal

[soos_mite_ah]

Emotionally Connecting with People vs Having Social Skills: Am I a Dismissive Avoidant or Am I Just Not Into You? 

I know in my last post I was talking about connecting with people on a platonic level. But what really got me thinking about this was me reflecting on this guy that I met on tinder that I've been talking to. Again, I have decent social skills so it isn't awkward. But I feel that because I don't emotionally resonate with this guy, the whole situation feels forced and I leave every conversation with feeling exhausted. And because I associate this dynamic with a sense of exhaustion and with this feeling of it being forced, I hesitate when it comes to starting conversations and replying to messages. The whole thing feels like work. Don't get me wrong, all relationships require effort to maintain and grow but it shouldn't be so much of a drag to where it feel more like work rather than you actually enjoying yourself. 

Also I'm pretty sure I've written about this in the past but I have yet to date a guy who I'm actually interested in. I have had crushed on three different guys so far and none of them liked me back (and honestly, thank god). First guy turned out to be really racist and said that he "only dates white girls because brown girls are gross and weird" despite him being brown himself. Second guy had a secret boyfriend. Third guy was my professor and even though I'm romantically attracted not to him  the thought of actually acting on it or having my feelings reciprocated grosses me out. (honestly I can admit that I barely know this guy and that I'm more attracted to the idea of him and what he represents than who he actually is) I'm 1000% sure that he isn't attracted to me in the slightest. 

Even though none of these guys reciprocated my feelings, I have been asked out by other guys. But all of the guys I've been on dates with felt forced not only because I'm not into them but because I don't really have much in common with them. I know that I'm the common denominator in these situations so naturally I thought I was the problem and that I'm a dismissive avoidant. I'm starting to question that.

I remember when I was talking to guy #2 who turned out to have a secret boyfriend, before I found that out, I was actually good friends with this guy. I was never dismissive avoidant around this guy and I think it's because I actually liked him. I had my own issues with being vulnerable and opening up back then but I wasn't leaving him on read nor did it feel like a chore to talk to him. I would look forward to talking to him and hanging out with him even if it was only platonic.

We did have a couple things we had in common with one another namely our goals, ambitions, values, and our desire to get into selective colleges. Most of our conversations revolved around those things. We didn't have anything in common on a surface level so every time we would talk it would be about something deep and personal. And while that isn't bad, when all of your conversations are like that, it does feel rather off balance. I was also going through my fake deep phase at the time so I didn't realize how this wasn't the best dynamic. Basically in the end, he ended up treating me like the therapist friend. He wasn't a bad guy. In fact he met all of my standards of what I considered to be really good guy. But just because someone is a good person, doesn't mean that both of you guys will be the healthiest for each other.  And as soon as we finished applying to colleges, we ceased having things in common with each other and it got awkward and forced. 

I guess my main issue when it comes to dating is that I can't find a guy who has all of the following: 

• A decent guy who checks off all of the boxes when it comes to my standards of being a decent human being
• A guy who likes me back 
• A guy who I have things in common with both on a deep level with values and ambitions but also on a surface level with hobbies and interests

I also think that dating online and through something like tinder also doubles down on how forced the process of dating feels. I think that contributes to why I don't like dating and why that feels super exhausting but I think that's a post of it's own. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[soos_mite_ah]

I'm going to be completely honest and say that I would really like the input of the people reading the last couple posts because I don't know if this is just me and I'm deluding myself or if I actually make sense. I also wonder if other people have felt the same way where they feel that they can get by in social situations without making things weird but they don't feel like they are compatible with people either platonically or romantically 

Edited June 29, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I'm going to be completely honest and say that I would really like the input of the people reading the last couple posts because I don't know if this is just me and I'm deluding myself or if I actually make sense. I also wonder if other people have felt the same way where they feel that they can get my in social situations without making things weird but they don't feel like they are compatible with people either platonically or romantically 

I have the same complex as guy 1 you mentioned above so take or leave my assessment here.

I think the issue you have now is you are not attractive from a personality/emotional stand point to the kind of men you would like. 

Men can pick up on woman with the resting bitch vibe etc and will stay clear because you are emotionally guarded.

From reading your posts, you have a very in-tense vibe. It's kinda like why so serious. I think men you would like are picking up on this and will stay away.

This may be projection, but I've noticed this dynamic in my family, where Indian woman are forced to mature and take on responsibility way earlier than Indian men and so Indian woman can develop some masculine qualities because of cultural pressures. It wasn't surprising that one of the men you found attractive turned out to be gay. I have a few woman in my family who essentially run their relationships and it comes from this dynamic.

I think men like warm woman, but you appear cold, and I can't imagine men would sense you as a source of peace and joy in their lives.

I guess this was kind of harsh so sorry, but I tried to be as analytical and unbiased as I could.

My advice. Learn to loosen up and drop your armor. If you can free yourself from the emotional armor you developed growing up you will open yourself to peace and joy, and men will react and you will get attention from similar people and I bet you will find someone you like.

 

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think the issue you have now is you are not attractive from a personality/emotional stand point to the kind of men you would like

Just curious, what kind of men do you think I'm looking for? 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It wasn't surprising that one of the men you found attractive turned out to be gay.

What makes this unsurprising? 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think men like warm woman, but you appear cold, and I can't imagine men would sense you as a source of peace and joy in their lives.

What specifically do you think makes me come off as cold? 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think men you would like are picking up on this and will stay away.

I don't have that many issues with guys being interested in me. It's more of I'm not interested in most guys and it probably has to do with me not having much in common with the guys that do ask me out. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Raptorsin7]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Just curious, what kind of men do you think I'm looking for? 

I'm assuming you want someone around Sd yellow/green. Emotional maturity, honesty, purposeful work, financially independent, similar political leanings. Not sure how much you value looks, height etc

What makes this unsurprising? 

I think of it as a yin yang thing. Gay men tend to lean more towards the feminine, so theres an attraction with more masculine women. When I meet assertive, intellectual, driven woman I've noticed that they partner with men with opposite qualities.

 

What specifically do you think makes me come off as cold? 

It's hard to pin point what exactly. I'd say it's your overly logical writing style, and judgmental personality. I'm also cold so I think I have a good sense for it.

I don't have that many issues with guys being interested in me. It's more of I'm not interested in most guys and it probably has to do with me not having much in common with the guys that do ask me out. 

My point was about men you would like to date. I'm assuming the vast majority men are undesirable by your lights. Were the guys asking you out guys you were interested in?

 

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I'd say it's your overly logical writing style, and judgmental personality.

I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions but being less judgmental and more emotionally open are a couple goals of mine. What are some judgements that stick out to you in my writing?  What is it about my writing that comes off as overly logical? This entire time I've been thinking that I am very emotionally open on here and I don't shy away from any topics so that's why I'm curious as to what my blind spots are.

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

My point was about men you would like to date. I'm assuming the vast majority men are undesirable by your lights. Were the guys asking you out guys you were interested in?

They aren't undesirable, just not my type. The guys that were asking me out weren't guys that I was interested in. I try to give people a chance at least with a couple dates. I just don't think I found anyone that I really click with or that I have a lot in common with especially given the area that I'm in.  

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I have the same complex as guy 1 you mentioned above

Wait is that to say "I'm racist" ??? LOL

6 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I'm going to be completely honest and say that I would really like the input of the people reading the last couple posts because I don't know if this is just me and I'm deluding myself or if I actually make sense. I also wonder if other people have felt the same way where they feel that they can get by in social situations without making things weird but they don't feel like they are compatible with people either platonically or romantically 

You make perfect sense.

I feel similarly, I just don't see any of this as a problem

[Raptorsin7]

@RendHeaven Yes

[RendHeaven]

@Raptorsin7 

[Raptorsin7]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions but being less judgmental and more emotionally open are a couple goals of mine. What are some judgements that stick out to you in my writing?  What is it about my writing that comes off as overly logical? This entire time I've been thinking that I am very emotionally open on here and I don't shy away from any topics so that's why I'm curious as to what my blind spots are.

Haha you don't have to apologize i'm being pretty blunt here so maybe i should be the one apologizing.

I am struggling to understand the distinction between judgment and preference myself, so i'll do my best here. 

Do you remember a thread a while ago when you posted a list of qualities you wanted in a partner. You also said in that post you wouldn't date me given what I wrote. I had the sense there was some part of my character/writing that triggered the response of, there's something wrong with this guy I wouldn't date you. I'm sure many woman were put off by what I wrote, but the fact you specifically mentioned you wouldn't date me indicates that a dislike or Judgement of me as not worth dating.

I also have a sense you judge guy #1 above, and me likely, as wrong or bad because of the racist preference. It wasn't that you were neutral in your preference for partner, it seemed their was active disapproval or judgment of the person and the racist behavior.

Finally, from your posts I have a sense that you see problems in the world. Problems with class, politics, climate etc. This is your judgment on reality. The universe/reality doesn't have an issue with this stuff, but I think you are judging the current state of affairs.

It's possible you aren't actually a judgmental person and I just misunderstood. I don't understand judgment that well, but this is what I believe based on my understanding.

I think as far as your emotional honesty etc. I think the issue is you aren't aware of how closed of emotionally you are because you don't have a frame of reference. For example, on one my peak LSD trips I felt this tension in my head/jaw feel like it was being unwound and pried open by a hand, the end result was like a complete liberation of energy from all the contraction of the body, and I had never felt so good in my life. It was like their was an entire new tier of emotions/feelings that I didn't even know existed. I think this may be what's going on with you emotionally. You don't know what it's like to not have the emotional make up you recieved from your upbringing so you think it's normal.

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

They aren't undesirable, just not my type. The guys that were asking me out weren't guys that I was interested in. I try to give people a chance at least with a couple dates. I just don't think I found anyone that I really click with or that I have a lot in common with especially given the area that I'm in.  

I'm saying they are undesirable in the sense that you did not desire them when they approached you. If you live in a major american city, I think you're from Dallas right, I think it's unlikely the issue is you just haven't met someone you click with.

I think it's more likely that you are doing something, or failing to do something, that is blocking your ability to find compatible partners.

[Raptorsin7]

@RendHeaven Do you want me to lie and say all races and people are equally attractive and desirable?

[Applegarden8]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@RendHeaven Do you want me to lie and say all races and people are equally attractive and desirable?

Why do you find them distasteful, if I may ask? Just curious, I am not judging you.

Well, for example, I would date women from any race (yes, really). The problem is their values, parents, but that's a different story. If we keep Africa poor and corrupt then no doubt such people will come out of that, but then, it's about the person you're dating.

[MuadDib]

You make sense, and I can relate quite a lot. You remind me of myself when I was younger, but your head seems to be screwed on a little better.
When I did this attachment style inventory I got 'secure' but there was a healthy splash of 'dismissive avoidant' in my results as well.

When I was a little kid (maybe 5-6) I distinctly remember having the realization that "I'm not like the other humans". I never felt intellectually superior to people, or that I was more developed or evolved, or that I was judgemental of others at all, but for some reason I gave off those vibes. I felt different, is all. I thought there was something wrong with me and I also used MBTI to rationalize and explain stuff after I realized I wasn't autistic or psychopathic or narcissistic or anything like that... just INTJ.

I'm beginning to settle into the fact that I'm not broken, just out of sync with my peers and with people in general. Not in any pathological way, but enough that it does feel draining to interact with people I don't vibe with, or that I turn into a bit of an overly energetic spaz when I do. I can imagine it would be a little bit more difficult as a woman in some respects. I've never had to deal with subtle judgement or criticism for being single in the past and I don't really have a biological clock to stress over, for example.

I'd say you're perfectly fine, just a different personality, a woman, a minority, living in a society that is becoming increasingly isolated in the middle of a pandemic. Don't stress, it's not you. In fact, you're doing really well!

Have a conciliatory pet bear:
 

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Applegarden8 I have noticed that I find certain groups of woman more desirable than others. I'd say i've seen an attractive woman from every race but there are some races where it's noticeable that the woman are more attractive.

There's certain facial features and body types I find attractive, and those features vary across different groups.

If I met someone who was incredibly attractive but they were x race, I wouldn't lose interest because of their race. I have just noticed that my attraction does not balance equally across all races and groups.

[Applegarden8]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Applegarden8 I have noticed that I find certain groups of woman more desirable than others. I'd say i've seen an attractive woman from every race but there are some races where it's noticeable that the woman are more attractive.

There's certain facial features and body types I find attractive, and those features vary across different groups.

If I met someone who was incredibly attractive but they were x race, I wouldn't lose interest because of their race. I have just noticed that my attraction does not balance equally across all races and groups.

But that's not really racism. Racism is like when you believe the Blacks are somehow incapable of being as intelligent as other races, because they are black, or that the Jews somehow should be inferior to Aryan race, and should be sent to live somewhere else or get murdered. It's more being discriminated because of your body features. What you are talking about is attraction preferences. Some women will turn you on and some off,  you may not even know why, unless you really think about it. You may like curly hair, big hips, or short or tall women or whatever, i think it's perfectly fine, just like choosing what brand of smartphone you prefer as your new phone, could be literally anything.

And in the first world dating is a free market, generally speaking. Sure there are some biased forces from your family, society and whatever, but it's up to the both dating party preferences,

Edited June 29, 2021 by Applegarden8

[Raptorsin7]

5 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

But that's not really racism. Racism is like when you believe the Blacks are somehow incapable of being as intelligent as other races, because they are black, or that the Jews somehow should be inferior to Aryan race, and should be sent to live somewhere else or get murdered. It's more being discriminated because of your body features. What you are talking about is attraction preferences. Some women will turn you on and some off,  you may not even know why, unless you really think about it. You may like curly hair, big hips, or short or tall women or whatever, i think it's perfectly fine, just like choosing what brand of smartphone you prefer as your new phone, could be literally anything.

And in the first world dating is a free market, generally speaking. Sure there are some biased forces from your family, society and whatever, but it's up to the both dating party preferences,

I agree i'm not a conventional racist but I still discriminate based on race. Have you seen stats on online dating? Black woman are the least desirable group in online dating, I think it's largely cultural, but I noticed that I barely ever swipe right on black woman. This may not seem racist on it's surface, but when you consider that 75% of black woman in the US won't ever get married, the fact that they are discriminated against in dating, rightly or wrongly, I think that's based on racism.

I prefer woman with light skin, long straight hair, certain facial features etc. This may not seem racist, but what if 99% of men have the same preference, and you have an entire groups of woman who are undesirable by conventional standards?

Even the example you gave above about black people and intelligence. If you believe that intelligence is affected by genetics, and genetics vary according to populations then by definition by some populations will be genetically less intelligent than other groups. What you do with that information is what matters imo, but even stating what i just wrote will probably have most people on this forum thinking i'm a racist(in the derogatory sense)

[Applegarden8]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I agree i'm not a conventional racist but I still discriminate based on race. Have you seen stats on online dating? Black woman are the least desirable group in online dating, I think it's largely cultural, but I noticed that I barely ever swipe right on black woman. This may not seem racist on it's surface, but when you consider that 75% of black woman in the US won't ever get married, the fact that they are discriminated against in dating, rightly or wrongly, I think that's based on racism.

I prefer woman with light skin, long straight hair, certain facial features etc. This may not seem racist, but what if 99% of men have the same preference, and you have an entire groups of woman who are undesirable by conventional standards?

Even the example you gave above about black people and intelligence. If you believe that intelligence is affected by genetics, and genetics vary according to populations then by definition by some populations will be genetically less intelligent than other groups. What you do with that information is what matters imo, but even stating what i just wrote will probably have most people on this forum thinking i'm a racist(in the derogatory sense)

I haven't seen, but I will take your word for it, because there has to be inadequacy in competition for limited resources as in this case - the preferable partner. So do I discriminate and so do so many people, probably almost all. You kinda will be discriminating and filtering out for your survival advantage, based on your ideas about prosperity, fertility in a woman and your personal needs.

About the black women. Sure, but it's mostly cultural. They grow up in corrupt places, hoods, pimp culture, gang culture e.c.t., there is probably a lot of trauma growing up, including things like rape e.c.t., some of the girls you may be not swiping are escorts and things like that, you never really know, and sure a part of that has to be based in racism and negative stereotypes.

About the intelligence, i have not commonly heard that claim about genetics determining intelligence, especially in the delf-dev sphere; it's about how people are brought up. But actual racists do come up with such claims as evident in the past.

Peace man, was good to talk with you, I don't want to dump anymore on her big journal.

[Raptorsin7]

@Applegarden8 Thanks for your input

[soos_mite_ah]

8 hours ago, MuadDib said:

it does feel draining to interact with people I don't vibe with, or that I turn into a bit of an overly energetic spaz when I do.

YES! I tend to get so excited when I finally find people I have things in common with since it happens so rarely. 

8 hours ago, MuadDib said:

I'd say you're perfectly fine, just a different personality, a woman, a minority, living in a society that is becoming increasingly isolated in the middle of a pandemic. Don't stress, it's not you. In fact, you're doing really well!

Thank you, I appreciate that thought. I do have an awful habit of internalizing some issues as "something being wrong with me" when it has to do with my environment instead. 

10 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

You make perfect sense.

I feel similarly, I just don't see any of this as a problem

So basically, what you're saying is that not clicking with someone and acting as though you're dismissive avoidant is normal to some extent and it isn't me making excuses with my individuality complex, nor is it a lack of social skills? 

[soos_mite_ah]

9 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Do you remember a thread a while ago when you posted a list of qualities you wanted in a partner. You also said in that post you wouldn't date me given what I wrote. I had the sense there was some part of my character/writing that triggered the response of, there's something wrong with this guy I wouldn't date you. I'm sure many woman were put off by what I wrote, but the fact you specifically mentioned you wouldn't date me indicates that a dislike or Judgement of me as not worth dating.

I vaguely remember that thread. I'm pretty sure I said that I wouldn't date a guy like you because I don't resonate with a lot of traditional values that have to do with women prioritizing home and family above all else including her career. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for a more traditional type of woman but expecting her to not have her own thing going on outside of a relationship can be pretty limiting and harmful.

9 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I also have a sense you judge guy #1 above, and me likely, as wrong or bad because of the racist preference. It wasn't that you were neutral in your preference for partner, it seemed their was active disapproval or judgment of the person and the racist behavior.

I don't think that guy was a bad person. I think he was very influenced by his surrounding since he lived in a very white and very conservative area. He may or may not have been dealing with people making fun of him for his culture. Plus he was literally like 13 years old at the time and probably didn't know better because he didn't cultivate a good sense of self love. I can see why he might turn out that way at that time. But nevertheless, I can recognize that he is not the type of person that I would've wanted to date or hang out with on a regular basis to protect my own sanity. 

9 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Finally, from your posts I have a sense that you see problems in the world. Problems with class, politics, climate etc. This is your judgment on reality. The universe/reality doesn't have an issue with this stuff, but I think you are judging the current state of affairs.

You're right. My interpretations can be seen as a judgement on reality. Sure on some absolute perspective the universe is all loving and doesn't have an issue with this kind of stuff but it's important to differentiate that as an absolute position instead of applying it to a relative situation. Because when you apply absolute truths to relative situations, you run into things like false equivalencies and zen devilry. I could say that on an absolute perspective that murder is ok but that doesn't mean that I should go kill people or that I shouldn't speak out against murder to find ways to address that situation and manage human suffering. 

9 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think as far as your emotional honesty etc. I think the issue is you aren't aware of how closed of emotionally you are because you don't have a frame of reference. For example, on one my peak LSD trips I felt this tension in my head/jaw feel like it was being unwound and pried open by a hand, the end result was like a complete liberation of energy from all the contraction of the body, and I had never felt so good in my life. It was like their was an entire new tier of emotions/feelings that I didn't even know existed. I think this may be what's going on with you emotionally. You don't know what it's like to not have the emotional make up you recieved from your upbringing so you think it's normal.

This can very well be the case. After all, the times where I was the most emotionally closed of growing up were also the times when I was the most sure that I wasn't closed off because I didn't know anything else. I don't see myself doing LSD anytime soon but I am working on this aspect of myself as an ongoing process. 

9 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

If you live in a major american city, I think you're from Dallas right, I think it's unlikely the issue is you just haven't met someone you click with.

I grew up in a very small, predominately female middle and high school (Think less than a 100 kids and like 60-70 of them being female). I went off to college and started going to a conservative, white school (mainly due to cost and quality of education) where most of the student body is blue/ orange and if I expressed my political views, I would be characterized as some leftist nutcase. I genuinely feel that at times I can't be myself in school tbh because I just don't have much in common with people. And finally, I haven't been dating at all for more than a year and a half because of the pandemic.