The Joy Journal

[soos_mite_ah]

Cringeworthy Part 3: Some of My Key Takeaways

So I stepped back from this book for a little bit to let all of the information marinate. I think the thing that helped me the most in this book is simply understanding what awkwardness is and how it works. By understanding that, it helped me not internalize feelings of awkwardness as much. I talked about this in my Cringeworthy Part 1 post but the big thing that stuck out to me when I was reading was when in p.14 the book goes into how awkwardness is seen as a character trait rather than an emotion or temporary state of being. "American pop culture often depicts awkwardness as a personality trait treating it as if the cause were socially inept individuals." I always thought I was an awkward person rather than someone who experience awkward moments like everyone else. And to me, being awkward coincided with being unlovable, being inconsiderate, being uncomfortable, being weird to where you aren't worthy of connecting with people. A lot of these beliefs around awkwardness also ties into the web of limiting beliefs I picked up from childhood experiences.  

The book reminded me of a lot of awkward things I did growing up. Like, the most irrelevant memories that I didn't think of for years popped up in my head while reading this. And when that would happen, I tried to do this thing where instead of cringing and curling up into a ball, I would try to reframe the situation and focus on why it was awkward rather than that it was awkward. Like for instance, I remember feeling awkward and dreading my graduation party because my parents basically forced me to have this party and invited a bunch of people from different areas of my life. Before reading this book I would have cringed and been like "omfg I was so awkward I want to forget about this ASAP and just crawl into a hole and die because I hate myself." But after reading this book, I tried to reframe this situation as "this situation was uncomfortable because I was put in a position where I had to play multiple roles at once and that felt overwhelming for me." For me personally the word awkward is loaded when I use it to describe myself. It's very easy for me to internalize because, again, it's treated like a personality trait one has instead of something a person momentarily feels. By reframing this situation in this way, I believe it helped not internalize my feelings of awkwardness as something that I am or something that is wrong or inherently unlovable about me. Rather, reframing this situation helped me see it in a more neutral way that isn't tied to my ego. 

On 5/11/2021 at 0:56 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

P.44-45: These two pages talk about how "our relationships are a potentially infinite cycle of concealing and revealing out authentic selves to each other" and why it can feel awkward when you have two groups of friends coming together. "If awkwardness is caused in part by 'unfulfilled expectations,' as Goffman once wrote, then that's why this situation is so awkward. You've created different roles for yourself to play in discrete social situations and you can't play them all at once."

Or for another example, I thought of the time when I was really nervous at a party and I came off as really awkward. Again, normally my response to when my brain comes up with memories like this are usually like "I want to forget about this and crawl into a hole and die because I hate myself."  And in this situation I reframed it as "I wasn't awkward because there is something wrong with me or my social skills but because I was hyper focused on myself to where I wasn't relaxed or focusing on the other person. And being hyper focused about what I do isn't something that is wrong with me, it's something that is natural because I know so much about myself and my flaws since I see myself from the inside out, I'm with myself all the time, and I'm essentially an expert on myself."  

On 5/15/2021 at 1:15 AM, soos_mite_ah said:

P. 125: "Think about what expertise allows you in other disciplines. 'If you're an expert physicist, for instance, you can notice all kinds of small minute details that nobody else can notice.... The same thing is true with yourself. You're an expert about yourself-- you saw yourself yesterday; you know what you look like when you go out to a party versus when you just get up in the morning out of bed; you know so much about yourself. You can judge yourself like an expert does.'" 

I also catch myself cringing a lot about what I was like in the past growing up and recently. I try to think of those moments of cringe as an indication of how much I've grown and how much I've polished myself through the process of actualizing myself. Often times we cringe when we feel like we are revealing the unpolished parts of ourselves kind of like peeking into what an actor is doing backstage rather than seeing the actor performing, except here, rather than the actor performing in a stage, we are performing in our social lives. My past and me figuring things out is my backstage moment to how I move about the world in the present. 

On 5/11/2021 at 0:56 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

P.11: "Cringing happens when you accidentally let an un-scripted, unpolished version of yourself escape."

On 5/15/2021 at 1:15 AM, soos_mite_ah said:

Then there is this whole section of how cringing at yourself can be an indication of how much you've grown as a person since in a way you don't resonate with your old self anymore. Or how cringing can encourage more self reflection and growth because it forces you to look at yourself from another person's point of view and see how you are not living up to your on values therefore compelling you to back track, reevaluate your life and try to live it more authentically (that was a different chapter but oh well). 

And finally, I really liked the observation on how we are more likely to have a cringe attack when we are relaxed and doing some mindless activity. I have this thing where sometimes in the middle of the night I go into a negative spiral and I made it a point that whenever I catch myself spiraling at like 2am in the morning, I ask myself "am I actually upset about my life, or do I just need to go to sleep?" It's usually the later and just knowing that helps me not get consumed into that spiral and create a healthy form of mental distance. Eventually I didn't have negative spirals at the middle of the night anymore and when I did I didn't take them too seriously. Because usually, those spirals don't have anything constructive to say, it's usually rooted in self pity and self hate.  I decided to do a similar thing when I catch myself having a cringe attack and start going on in a spiral of self hatred where I catch myself spiraling and I ask myself "is this something that is actually relevant to my life and things I'm working on when it comes to my growth, or did my mind wander because I was going a relaxing and mindless activity?" 

On 5/15/2021 at 1:15 AM, soos_mite_ah said:

P.157: Cringe attacks mainly happen when you are alone and/or are doing some mindless activity and you cross paths with something that is vaguely related to a memory in your head which then reminds you of that one cringy memory you'd rather forget. And that moment usually has an element of ambiguity or something that feels unresolved in your mind.  

I could go on and on about how I'm implementing the things I learned in this book and basically go into each point I highlighted in the previous posts but I'm not going to since what I already wrote pretty much sums up how I'm using this book to shift my mindset in a nutshell 

[soos_mite_ah]

Shame Around Being Awkward Part 2: Becoming Comfortable with My Interests 

Ok so in the original post I had the following points and I elaborated on them but just to make things simple I took the elaborations out so that I have a simple list. I'm going to focus on the items in blue. I have linked that post below if you want to see the original post and the elaborations: 

On 4/26/2021 at 5:54 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Shame Around Being Socially Awkward Part 1: Why Do I Think I'm Awkward

The first 3 things have to do with my basic sense of shyness. 

Nervous about my interests: 

Being nervous around guys who I know are interested in me: 

Running out of things to say: 

The next 3 things have to do with symptoms of my ADHD. I manage my ADHD well and I don't have a problem with functioning because I have really good coping skills but I don't like it when it slips out in social circumstances.

Rambling: 

Interrupting: 

Talking too fast, stuttering, filler words and not making sense: 

This last one doesn't fall in any category, it's just kind of there tbh. 

Coming off as too positive:

Naturally, after making this list, I tried to tackle each point one by one. I started with the first point and I basically tried to get comfortable with talking about my interests without worrying about being seen as weird/ crazy or worrying about whether or not people would get it. I tried to talk about some of interests regarding self development and spirituality with a couple of my friends. It went over really well for me. It helped me come up with more evidence that says "hey, other people can empathize with your experiences, you aren't alone when it comes to these interest in real life." But it also helped me deal with the other reasons why I think I'm awkward. Suddenly, I wasn't worried about running out of things to say or rambling. I was comfortable with what I was talking about and I gained the confidence to keep going because my friends listened to me without judgement. Because I was talking about something I was interested in therefore there weren't any awkward silences that would cause me to think "oh shit I have nothing to say I'm so awkward and I lack social skills."  Finally, because I was talking about something I was actually interested in, it felt much more natural to where I didn't have to worry about talking too fast, stuttering, filler words, and not making sense. I noticed that this happens when I get nervous or when I'm not comfortable with what my interests are because when I'm not comfortable with my interests, I'm afraid of talking too much and boring the other person to death or afraid of looking crazy. It really ties into the whole rambling point. 

I started of trying to tackle the first point only to realize how much it impacted the other points when I put it into practice. Going forward, I think that I can deal with my shame around being awkward by accepting the things that I genuinely enjoy instead of feeling this need to conceal them in order to look sane and rational in front of others. 

[soos_mite_ah]

Dealing with My Spiritual Ego : Moving Towards Balance and Integration 

Taking a couple steps back from really working on myself really helped me get some perspective as to where I'm at in this journey and where I need to go. Here are somethings that I realized were hang ups in me. 

Taking "Responsibility" for Everything: I think a lot of self-help people even if they aren't heavily in stage orange emphasize on how "you need to take charge," "you need to take action," "you need to take 100% responsibility at everything that is thrown at you." While I don't disagree with those statements, I think audience matters a lot. Sure, there are a lot of people who need that kick in the gut so that they get up off the couch and work on themselves and sure there are a lot of people who need that reminder of "hey stop playing victim and blaming others, see what you're doing to continue this circumstance." But I think for me personally I fall in the opposite spectrum where I tend to internalize things easily and feel this need to take a large amount of action even when something isn't my fault. I think I internalize a lot of things in order to feel a sense of personal power like *yeah I am in control of this situation, this is my doing, I can change it* which isn't a bad thing but sometimes it can be an overcompensation in the face where I don't have control. I know that different pieces of advice are good for different people. It comes down to knowing how to get to a balanced, integrated point from where you are now . 

I'll use the example of awkwardness.  Sometimes I get myself into awkward interactions with people and sometimes it is their fault but instead of recognizing that, I have a tendency to point it back to myself since I have this thing drilled into me that says "don't blame others, take responsibility"   and then I beat myself up for and blame myself for the awkward situation. I know that beating myself up and blaming myself isn't actual responsibility. Responsibility is your ability to respond. It's supposed to empower you while blame disempowers you and puts you in a victim mindset of sorts even if it is the case that you are blaming yourself. Shaming yourself is rarely the best way to respond. Sometimes recognizing that something isn't your fault or has any bearing on you is the best way to respond because you aren't internalizing the situation. But for me, I'm nervous about pointing the finger outwards to the people and the situation around me because I'm afraid of the self deception that may come with that judgement.  Which brings me to the next point....

The Vast Majority of People are Unconscious: I sometimes get this vibe from Actualized.org videos of this notion that the vast majority people are deluded, dysfunctional, egoic, and just awful people because their consciousness isn't high enough and that includes you too because, hey, you can't point out there without pointing the finger back at yourself. I think there is some truth in this that we are deluded and egoic when you zoom out into the absolute perspective. But for me personally, it made me question and second guess everything I was thinking. While that itself isn't a bad thing, I did greatly benefit from this, but one set back for me was that I underestimated my own growth and I felt this need to hyper focus on some issues I had and make a mountain out of a mole hill. I did a whole post on why it's important to recognize your growth and I feel that it relates well to this section: 

On 5/1/2021 at 11:41 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Acknowledging your progress isn't always egotistical. It's sometimes necessary to do so in order to know the correct course of action depending on where you are at now, not ruminate on a problem that has already been solved or to not take a solution that helped at one point and basically make it an over kill. Acknowledging my progress has been so important for me when it comes to learning to be more gentle with myself and cultivating more self acceptance. 

This video relates to this as well: 

When it comes to this notion that the vast majority of people are unconscious, not only did it impact my relationship to myself causing me to be harsh and nitpicky with my flaws, but it also colored the way I interacted with others. I did talk about how I was uncomfortable with talking about spirituality and self development with people I knew because I was afraid that they wouldn't "get it." As a result of that along with the notion of how the vast majority of people are unconscious, I built up this scarcity mindset when it comes to who I thought I could really connect with. I think the dating and relationship section of this forum also made things worse because of the types of discussions that take place there. For a consciousness forum, I have found more conscious conversations about dating and relationships in real life. I know a lot of people, particularly men, here don't have the healthiest view on themselves and they assume that everyone is neurotic as they are. They assume that most attractive women are unconscious, they only care about looks because that's where their value lies, and that if you aren't rich, famous, successful, or have a square jaw that you're not going to get anyone's attention. And that's because their insecurities lie in their looks, their money, and their status so they hyper focus on that and also assume that everyone is judging them on the same criteria they judge themselves on. I think I greatly benefitted from getting out of that section of the forum and muting around 30 people. I already have some issues with this notion that good men are scarce and this section just picked at that wound because I felt like I was surrounded by insecure men and it was worse than what I would encounter irl.   

I know that I  talked about dating quite a bit,  but I think there is something that is to be said about friendship as well. There is this notion that the vast majority of people aren't looking to develop themselves. I think that ultimately comes down to who you end up surrounding yourself with. Personally, the vast majority of my friendships involved people who were trying to grow and develop as people in some way or another. At times we might have been in different places and stages of our growth and most of the time we didn't put this under the label of "self development" rather we were going through the motions and figuring things out about the world and ourselves but that doesn't mean that my friends weren't oriented around growth since growth can mean so many different things. I think that this notion that the vast majority of people are unconscious caused me to be judgmental with some people in my life and even if  I never expressed those judgements, it mainly manifested as me keeping my distance. When in reality, I'm consistently surrounded myself with people who had integrity and cared about growth. Many people like that are out there. In my opinion as long as people are open to working through their problems and they maintain a healthy dynamic, I don't see why I should avoid a friendship or relationship with them. We're always going to be a work in progress and that's ok. 

Being Above Relationships: Every now and then I come across a thread that reads something along the lines of "are all relationships rooted in survival and selfishness? Is it all ego?" I don't think there is anything wrong per se about ego, survival, and selfishness since it exists in a spectrum but the way that these questions are phrased, there is a connotation of relationships being negative and that you need to transcend your needs. To a certain extent I agree. Sometimes your "needs" can manifest in an unhealthy way like manipulating someone or trying to escape your problems. We should all work towards being self sufficient and being whole in ourselves so we don't fall into things like codependency. But at the same time, I feel like there isn't enough talk about the benefits conscious relationships and how it can help people grow on here. I kind of get the vibe here that the vibe is to be this lone wolf monk that doesn't need/want anyone in their life. There isn't anything wrong with that but I don't think that's healthy for most people in the long run. Sure, it can be healthy for some to have a hermit phase. I know I had one and it came from an authentic and healthy place. But there was a small part of me that felt prideful that I could handle this type of thing when other people couldn't, like I was stronger and more developed because I could be by myself for a long period of time.  I also have some dismissive-avoidant tendencies in my attachment style so I think that is also a factor to consider. And upon reflection, I think there was a lot of healing that I went through simply by admitting that I wanted the closeness of other people around me and that I value relationships, not because I had a hole to fill or because I felt lonely, but because I genuinely want to connect to others and build on that connection for the sake of it. 

Everything in Society is Chimpery and Ego: I do agree that there is a lot of things in society that aren't the healthiest and can serve as a distraction to many people but that doesn't automatically mean that those things are inherently unconscious. I've been letting myself "indulge" a little bit and I don't think it was a bad thing or that it was a back slide. Tbh, it was refreshing. I think it all comes down how you approach a thing rather than what that thing is. 

I'll use TV as an example. A lot of people zone out in front of the TV and look like they are half dead because they aren't consciously taking in what they are watching. I feel like my parents are like this tbh. But then there are people who get immersed in the show, starts analyzing the plot and the characters, and are overall more conscious about the nuances of the writing and how it impacts viewers and audiences. I know people like this and I've gotten into interesting, conscious conversations about those things. Fashion also gets lumped into egoic societal shit.  To a certain extent I get it because people sometimes  get  consumed by consumerism and materialism and try to change appearances instead of actually working on themselves and dealing with their insecurities. But at the same time, for a lot of people it can be a source of creativity and self expression which is a much more conscious way of going about it. When it comes to doing things that the average person does in society, I don't necessarily think that people who engage in these thing consciously are in scare supply based on the people I have met. Yes for a lot of people, disconnecting from society to get clear on who they are and what they want is important, but that is not a solution that everyone needs to implement imo.  I think a lot of people in spiritual circles can get attached to detachment (myself included) and that can cause those people to be harsh on themselves or be judgmental towards others. There is nothing wrong with ego, just make sure you're going about it in a healthy and integrated way. Sometimes you just have to let yourself enjoy the shenanigans of life around you as a way of appreciating life. Sometimes you just have to let yourself be, watch some old Vine videos, scroll through TikTok, and look into the Free Britney Spears movement lol. It's a part of being and accepting imo. I say that because that there is some spiritual people who just write off society as this unconscious blob (intentionally or unintentionally) that they are above. There isn't anything wrong with not resonating with somethings but that doesn't mean you judge others. 

Self Development is the Main Thing to Focus on: Again, I don't necessarily disagree with this but I think you can take self development too far. It would also be weird to say on a self development forum that self development shouldn't always be the priority. For me, I got to a point where self improvement wasn't always manifesting in the healthiest of ways. While self development is often about dealing with our less healthy, egotistical ways, sometimes you get to a place where there is a paradox and the time you spend developing yourself can be counter productive. At some point you start seeing that time spent developing yourself is still time spent obsessing over yourself and at that point you simply need to take a step back. That's not to say that you shouldn't focus on self development or that you don't ever look at ways to better yourself in any way, I'm just talking about when you turn into a self improvement junkie, you neglect your other hobbies and interests, and you get obsessed with self development and you end up judging people who aren't as obsessed as you're by writing them off as lazy, unconscious, etc. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Raphael]

Just to say, I read your journal sometimes and I find you very impressive and inspirational. You're doing much better than me when I was around your age! I'm jealous to be honest lol

Edited May 19, 2021 by Raphael

[soos_mite_ah]

@Raphael  Omfg I'm flattered thank you  I'm so glad that you get something out of this journal

I also really like your journal as well and I check up on it pretty regularly

[Raphael]

10 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I also really like your journal as well and I check up on it pretty regularly

Thanks.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Raphael

[Raphael]

14 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

When in reality, I'm consistently surrounded myself with people who had integrity and cared about growth. Many people like that are out there. In my opinion as long as people are open to working through their problems and they maintain a healthy dynamic, I don't see why I should avoid a friendship or relationship with them. We're always going to be a work in progress and that's ok.

Regarding that, I feel like this is the case with people who have a minimum openness for novelty, a minimum self-awareness, and can have an outside look on themselves. In my experience, it has been very difficult to open about myself without getting made fun of, criticized, or attacked. For example, some people criticized me just for eating vegetarian. When they are too deeply immersed in their cultural environment this is very difficult to introduce new ideas. Also, I noticed that moving up a spiral stage is rare, most of the time self-growth happens horizontally within a stage.

[soos_mite_ah]

30 minutes ago, Raphael said:

In my experience, it has been very difficult to open about myself without getting made fun of, criticized, or attacked.

I think environment does play a huge role. I have experienced this as well in my college where most people are blue/orange and yeah if you show a hint of green a lot of people will side eye you or not want to get to know you. I have also experienced this with my family and I have this defense mechanism where I'm super hesitant to open up and discuss things with them. 

Nevertheless, I still found myself attracting the few orange/green people and green people who have the potential to go yellow that were in my environment. I guess due to my openness with that type of thinking, how I feel at ease with people from those stage therefore making it easier to be around them, and my subconscious beliefs making me naturally gravitate towards those kinds of people. Even though most people at my school probably wouldn't want to be around me if they knew my views, to me it's almost like the process of elimination tbh. 

35 minutes ago, Raphael said:

When they are too deeply immersed in their cultural environment this is very difficult to introduce new ideas.

I agree with this. I noticed that when people change around their environment and branch out more that they are more likely to develop themselves and move up stages. From my experiences a lot of young people tend to fall in this category since they haven't settled down and gone into stagnation. Granted, I already grew up in a fairly liberal environment where people tended to be orange/green and a lot of people in my area who went off to college came back as very green. Similarly in my family, I have cousins who started out at blue/orange but when they moved away from home and got exposed to the world and different ideas, they came back orange/green or simply green. 

43 minutes ago, Raphael said:

Also, I noticed that moving up a spiral stage is rare, most of the time self-growth happens horizontally within a stage.

I think this also depends on area and how often people move around and get exposed to new ideas. But I do agree that a lot of self growth happens horizontally within a stage. I know people here see moving up stages as the goal but I also think that horizonal growth is something that should be recognized more tbh. There can be a lot of growth from unhealthy orange to healthy orange or unhealthy green to healthy green which can go a long way when it comes to the state of you base line consciousness even if you are technically in the same stage. 

48 minutes ago, Raphael said:

I feel like this is the case with people who have a minimum openness for novelty, a minimum self-awareness, and can have an outside look on themselves.

This might be my bias talking but I feel like even if you have the smallest smidge in you, you're more likely to be flexible and open with growth. 

[soos_mite_ah]

On Recent Events on the Forum (Trigger Warning: Suicide)

So apparently someone on this forum committed suicide for spiritual reasons so they can experience a conscious death. This was really heartbreaking to read and part of me had no idea what to say because I'm not good at handling things regarding death. My heart does go out to the person's friends and family. 

But I did have somethings to say particularly on the dangers of spiritual work and how spiritual teachings can me misinterpreted in dangerous ways to harm oneself and others. I have encountered something similar in my journey when I tried to jump into transcendence prematurely. I felt the need to explain my critiques in the thread where people were talking about this because the dangers of spiritual work and how people talk about it I feel aren't addressed enough. There are a lot of potentially dangerous things on here from what I've observed tbh. 

I wasn't trying to blame or shame anyone. It's easy to just say that the person who committed suicide that it was their responsibility to interpret things in a constructive way. While that is true, I think as the community and as actualized.org is trying to go mainstream (based on the clips channel as well as making podcast rounds), it's important to look at what we can do in our end and have these difficult conversations on how far to take spirituality and where are the lines we need to draw when talking to other people about it, not out of shame or wanting to water down teachings but for the safety, wellbeing, and growth of the people and society around us. There is a reason why some teachers hold back advanced teachings. I know that all teachings can't be idiot proof but I think there are somethings we can still do to reduce situations like these. I can't say I know what those things are but having that conversation discussing these things is important. 

The thought of leaving people behind, especially little kids just hits really hard for me. I'm tearing up while writing this tbh.  I've had issues with suicidal thoughts over the years so I understand to a certain extent. I've also a lot of people who were close to me and while I didn't lose anyone personally to suicide, a lot of those deaths were sudden, a couple of them were violent. Again, my heart goes out to the person's friends and family. 

I'm probably going to write about the issues I see on this forum. I was originally thinking about getting that out of my system in this journal for the last couple weeks but now I'm also thinking about posting that as a thread. I don't even know tbh.

Edited May 20, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Raphael]

@soos_mite_ah I really appreciate your thoughts, thank you.

[soos_mite_ah]

Dealing with My Spiritual Ego: The Dangers of the Spiritual Ego and Why People Should Be Careful

Some. of. yall. bout. to. be. real. mad. at. me. but. it. must. be. said.

While I do get a lot of value out of spirituality and Actualized.org, there are things that I'm very hesitant and even skeptical about. This might look like me turning on this community or not aligning with the main values of this place but I honestly don't care. The two main things that I'm really hesitant about involve the dating advice here, especially for guys who can't get laid, and the enlightenment related things there. I'm not going to talk about the first one because I already wrote about that but I am going to focus on the second one. 

I suppose that I'm far from having any concerns about enlightenment and transcendence. I think I'm at a place where integration and building a solid foundation to build my life on in order to ground me is much more important. I think getting on the path to enlightenment prematurely can be incredibly dangerous without proper integration. Maybe I'll get to a point where I'll care more about existential and absolute truths years down the road or maybe I won't I don't know. But I know that if I ever get on that path, I want to be able to have some type of framework and some solid foundation because diving in head first without preparation is irresponsible for me and the people around me. There are some methods of getting there that I don't particularly agree with (if you do agree with it idc, no judgement I don't know what's best for everyone) and those include things like psychedelics, fasting, and isolating yourself from your loved ones and abandoning your hobbies and interests because all of your attention should be towards enlightenment. I feel that those things are rather extreme and are things that are definitely not for the vast majority of people. Also, I'm hesitant with drugs in general. I don't care if other people uses them granted they are doing so safely, responsibly, and legally but it's not for me especially when that advice is coming from a talking head on the internet.  

Upon recent events, this video by Adeptus Psychonautica came out. Some people are triggered because they think it makes actualized.org look bad but I think it's incredibly beneficial for people from the outside critiquing actualized.org because being super insular usually doesn't end well for a variety of reasons whether it be because of self bias all the way to cult like tendencies. I guess I'm not particularly attached to actualized.org and spirituality in general so when people critique these things, I don't feel particularly triggered because to me it's simply a source. I think it can be easy for people to get attached to some sources  and some teachers because of the benefits that one gets from their content because it does have to do with those people's survival emotionally and psychologically. Especially if you get help in a vulnerable place and even if you get out of that vulnerable place, there is an attachment that forms, almost like a baby blanket after you grow up imo. I've had something like this come up for me once personally and even though I've never got to the point of needing to defend that source I got value from, it does sting because part of you identifies with the source and teachings therefore when someone critiques that source or teaching, it's like they're critiquing you. 

I went ahead and watched Adeptus's livestream and I feel like most of it was valid despite what other people may think on here. At no point did I feel that there was slander or that Actualized.org was being dragged through the mud. There are also points where Adeptus talks about the positives of the way Leo is handling different issues such as the phone call he had with Connor Murphey and one of the posts he made on the thread discussing recent events( Around 1:08:00-1:17:00). They talked about how Leo or any of the mods are trying to do anything malicious or create a cult but sometimes it seems like there is one forming around Leo anyway (basically collective ego).  Overall, @AdeptusPsychonautica, I loved this video and I think It's important to contemplate on the darker aspects of spirituality and self improvement rather than idealizing it. 

Here are somethings that I found were really valuable that I want to include in my journal.: 

Around the 15 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about how these teachings aren't things that were made up by the community rather they are things that were taught by ancient teachers and how back then there were teachers who had  communities but since it was in person, the teacher can gage were the students are at and how much they can handle. However, this aspect gets lost when its all on YouTube and on a forum when anyone regardless of how stable they are can access it. There aren't checks and balances. 

I think this is a very valid critique. It's not so much a direct attack on actualized.org but it's talking about how systemically there are problems and shortcomings. 

At the 20-24 minute mark, I can see why some people in this community can get triggered. They are critiquing how a lot of the followers think that they are a finished product and they are so enlightened and they egg each other on in order to keep up with the master and meanwhile the master is here talking about "i've gone deeper, I've become more awakened, I encountered a new level of awakening, you can't understand where I've been." And this challenges people to do more and more and more to where it can become compulsive especially because Leo talks in these absolute terms. Adeptus talks about how this might be Leo's personal truth and how he isn't saying Leo is lying or anything like that but it's the way he goes about it. 

This is honestly part of the reason why I avoid parts of this forum. I personally found that this type of thing doesn't help me and how this type of thing can become very compulsive, especially when it comes to Leo's fanboys. 

Around the 31 minute mark: If truth realization is not your Moby Dick to where you want to sacrifice everything, go for human adulthood meaning the integration of your spiritual, emotional, relational, physical self to be your most mature self. If you don't want to sacrifice everything, point your hunger toward integration and self actualization. Then in the 37 minute mark, Mackenzie talks about her experiences with nonduality how she felt all the love and light in the moment but then she came back down to just being human again and still having all of her problems that she had before the experience and how that can be discouraging and therefore cause people to go on these endless seeking journeys. 

I feel like this is where I'm at with my views on spirituality and self realization. I do care more about integration and building a fulfilling life than simply transcending everything and joining the void. Because based on some of the interactions I've had on this forum, teachers that I have learned about in history, and interacting with Leo himself is that even if they get an enlightenment experience, there is still plenty of human shit and blind spots you'll still have. And I think to go towards actualization is to deal with that in a slow consistent way rather than dealing with nonduality and transcendence.

Around the 40 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about cleaning up her nihilism she encountered from spirituality and how she started building meaning in the form of close relationships, books, etc. to slowly start rebuilding her ego to care about existing. And then she realized that that was the process that she wanted all along and because she grew up in the shadow of new age culture where ego death, nonduality, mysticism, love and light are more a part of the conversation than anything, she thought that was the way to fix herself. But for her it was more along the lines of deep psychological work, embodiment, and healing that she realized she wanted more of a complete human experience instead of transcending the human experience because that was the thing sold to her as a way to deal with being here. In order to deal with being here, you don't have to leave. You just have to be present and accept the present moment instead of constantly feeling like you have to do more and more to reach a higher and higher state of consciousness in order to be at peace with the present moment. In spiritual communities its like there is always some place else to get to. It goes back to the 27 minute mark where Mackenzie talks about how there are two levels. There is truth realization and done. Once you reach done, that's it there is no more self discovery of lets go see what else I can find. Once you're enlightened, the seeker disappears so if you're seeking more experiences, you're still seeking which can get compulsive. 

I love this section. While I never became nihilistic, I've had a point where I got really attached to detaching. I journaled about this before and how it relates to my relationship to actualized.org. Basically it wasn't cute. I had a friend who was like "I don't think you even know who you are anymore" because I got caught in this cycle of even detaching from the healthier forms of my ego like my personality, my hobbies and interests etc. It wasn't this enlightenment thing that people often talk about here. And from then on I took a step back from spirituality and self help in order to be more gentle with myself so I can build myself back up again. This was the post I was talking about and here is the part that I think is most applicable to this post:

On 3/10/2021 at 11:30 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

For me, I grew attached to detachment. I started detaching from a lot of things I liked and cared about, things that brought me fulfillment, personality traits, as well as tastes and preferences. I even went as far as to detach from a lot of my needs and some of my boundaries. To me all of these were survival and ego. On the plus side, it got rid of a lot of my happiness bottlenecks, it made me more flexible in my self concept, it made me more openminded, and it helped me get a good idea what I was doing out of distraction and what I was doing because I actually enjoy it. On the negative, I lost sight of who I was. I know people on this site might think it was a good thing but for me it was like I turned into a blob, like I didn't care about anything anymore, like I didn't have something grounding me. It really hit me when I was in the height of my ego backlash a few months back and my friend I called was like "I don't think you know who you are anymore" when I started talking about feeling like a blob and how I really isolated myself to where I wasn't acknowledging my social and emotional needs. The place where I went to far was detaching from my personality, my tastes, my needs, and my boundaries. 

Why was I so attached to detachment? Well, for me, the more I can minimize my needs and wants, the more competent I was. This goes along with the whole notion of self development making you a better person. This whole thing created a spiritual ego. It made me let go of things that spark joy (hobbies, quality relationships), things that ensure I'm emotionally and mentally secure (boundaries and needs), and my individuality (personality). I'm pretty sure some of it also turned into shadows because I let go of things prior to fully exhausting them. 

The more conscious I was, again the more competent I was. I kept hearing things like "everything is survival" and "we're all devils" without the warning of *hey there might be false equivalencies when we talk about the relative and the absolute* I'm not saying these things are false but I am saying that even if you understand this intellectually, you might not be emotionally ready to integrate it fully and if you rush that process, you could get repercussions. Especially when it comes to boundaries and needs, constantly thinking about how it's all survival , how it's all low consciousness, and how it's all selfish. Seeing those things in a negative light can be gaslighting to people who don't have a strong ego yet. That really rings true as someone with a spiritual ego.

Around the 47 minute mark: I also like how they discuss how people turn spiral dynamics is another dick measuring contest lol. Also Adeptus talks about how it's not about the model itself rather it's about how people use it to judge others and turn it into a dogma. Then Mackenzie talks about how it's important ot just see it as a model rather than THE TRUTH  that explains and solves everything because that can be the indication that this is probably a defensive ego mechanism.

Reminds me of something I wrote elsewhere in this journal: 

Around the 1 hour 3 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about how some teachings are vague or are gatekept because the highest teachings can be dangerous. Vague teachings will only make sense when people ponder it for a while and then when the reach a certain place in their journey it will make sense. And that bread crumbing your way to truth is part of a gradual process of direct experience where you figure it out on your own, therefore if something goes wrong, you can still back track. However with psychedelics, you're kind of thrown into the truth and then you may or may not be able or ready to deal with it which can be dangerous if someone doesn't have proper integration. 

Granted I've never experimented with psychedelics and I don't plan to any time soon, but I do 100% agree with the need for proper integration and the importance of pacing yourself in the journey to find truth. It reminds me of Leo's video on ego backlash where if there is a sudden change, even if it's for the better it can lead to a huge backlash because individually and collectively we want to aim towards homeostasis rather than growth because homeostasis feels safe while growth is a leap into the unknown. And these backlashes, even though they may look like a step back after taking a step forward, are important so that you don't do too much too soon and throw everything off and cause chaos while aiming for growth. The bigger the growth, the bigger the backlash. To me that's important to take into consideration because to me that means taking on too much too soon can yield to a huge backlash which can be pretty detrimental. And to me, it means that it's important to take your time on the journey and pace yourself so that you don't have a backlash that is so devastating that it takes away all of your progress. It simply isn't sustainable.

That's something I also learned this year as I've been trying to take a more gentle, slow approach to discipline rather than a rigorous strict way to discipline. It goes back to that feeling of always wanting to get somewhere rather than appreciating where you are now. The spiritual ego wants to be enlightened as soon as possible and if it means taking a shit ton of LSD or 5meo, it will take that route over a slower and more sustainable way like through meditation, self-inquiry, and working on yourself in general. I don't think there is anything wrong with those substances and that there is a time and place for them but when you have a spiritual ego that wants to get more and more enlightenment experiences that last longer and longer and go deeper and deeper, I can see how that can turn very dysfunctional to where someone might contemplate on ending their life so that they are in that state of bliss forever. 

1:21:00: "What are things about yourself that you are trying to avoid by transcending that? That's where to start. What are you trying to transcend, why are you so fucking eager to transcend it." 

I just really like this part. I think a lot of people need to contemplate this tbh and I think this is a good quote to end this post at. 

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

@soos_mite_ah

Thank you for writing such a detailed post and for seeing my video in the light it was intended. I hope others will follow your example ?

 

[Preety_India]

@soos_mite_ah

If you don't mind, I Just want to offer my perspective. Not trying to argue yours in any way, simply offering mine.

I think one can look at this situation both objectively and subjectively.

Yes there is compassion in both sides. 

I preside with the objective side meanwhile keeping room for the subjective side as well.

I understand that certain comments on the forum could have caused Sunny to think that death is not a big deal and how some teachings could have made him not realise the seriousness of Death.

Many things to unpack here.

1 One that these teachings do not belong to Leo or Actualized Org exclusively or to forum members. These teachings are worldwide non dual teachings and are similar in all spiritual communities. These teachings carry an inherent risk which most people bypass since they understand the objective nature of reality and do not take subjective teachings with a grain of salt.

Leo Gura or people of the forum are in no way responsible for inventing these teachings. They already exist.

2 Leo has made so many videos which talk about the dangers of spiritual teachings and practice. There are many many videos on this. I can give you links if you want.

Not just Leo, there are tons of people in spiritual communities that issue such warnings.

 

3 Leo has consistently helped people who have been suicidal to not be suicidal. He has always been very life affirming. In fact his videos have helped many many people to recover from depression and suicide ideation. Even tacitly implying in a video that Leo could be responsible for this is a huge blunder. 

 

4 Leo has gone out of his way in the forum guidelines to issue warnings about how his teachings shouldn't be  taken with a grain of salt and that this is not a cult. Cult is a huge term that involves a lot of things. It involves threatening and pressuring people to do things for the leader. This is just group think. An echo chamber mentality but just  borderline Echo chamber. It's not like Leo does not allow independent thinking here. He absolutely does. Leo doesn't control anyone's behaviour. Leo does not tell what people should do. For someone to constantly keep refering to this as a cult is a very childish. In being critical of his video, there was no cult behaviour shown.. I simply said that he is misrepresenting things and that can easily appear as slander and this is no cult like behaviour.

Leo has himself said many times that this is not a cult.

5 I think every adult knows that suicide is a wrong option. This need not be specifically told. Leo has also said that his spirituality is not designed for those who have mental illnesses and who do not understand his teachings properly.

6 Often people misinterpret teachings. Leo like any other spiritual teacher is not exempt to this situation. Many people might misconstrue his teachings and he cannot help. He cannot have the resources to help each and every person or figure out exactly they are taking his actions. That's a tall order that is impossible to fill.

7 People on the forum had absolutely no clue that the guy was suicidal in any way or if he had such intent. In fact, he wasn't suicidal in the traditional kind of way. Most suicidal people exhibit overly emotional behaviours and usually talk about it openly to people. Or they leave clues that they are depressed. However Sunny did not leave such clues. He appeared quite happy, optimistic and positive. Also that he used to talk in a poetic manner, there was no way to exactly know if he was being serious or simply dancing around concepts. So most people here are innocent because they didn't have any beforehand knowledge and by his demeanor could not have known that he was about to kill himself. This innocence needs to be considered and it's a big factor. Had these people known that he was going to do that, then they would have obviously told the person to not do it. We here as a community, including me, have always helped people with suicidal thoughts. This is not some suicide death cult. Here people are very keen on telling people to not self harm. It's the opposite environment here. Well I feel very sad that Sunny did what he did, I also understand that if he even slightly tried to openly express his intention, people would have jumped to action. Not blaming him but suggesting that this action from his end could have easily prevented this from happening.

Also these people are not only innocent but are also dealing with grief. They had the best intentions and interests for Sunny. So if they are being blamed,it's a double blow on top of dealing with the grief of losing someone who they considered a friend 

 

8 There is something called as self ownership and personal responsibility which cannot be dismissed or taken for granted. Neither in this nor in any other case. Sunny had a wife and kids. I cannot imagine leaving my kids alone behind. With marriage and kids personal responsibility gets tighter and stricter because now you're not only responsible for your own self but also responsible for the lives of others that you brought into this world through marriage. Sunny had a huge responsibility to his family. Even if he is a suicide victim, he was still accountable for how his actions were to impact his family. Self responsibility and ownership is not a blame game. It's about telling a person that they also have the power to do things that they are accountable for. In this case, I see a bit of recklessness in this department. The person was expected to show a certain level of responsibility on how his actions might impact his children in the future. He should have reflected on his thoughts and been vocal about it. He wasn't being actively coerced or coached or directed or brainwashed into killing himself. There is no such evidence. Because he never openly talked about suicide. Suicide and death are two different things. Suicide is a serious situation and he never said he was suicidal. And death in spiritual communities can easily mean spiritual death, ego death etc. One cannot know for sure what a person might be alluding to.

 

I often do not agree with Leo or ANY spiritual teacher or psychonaut that ever claims any experience of any kind, psychedelic or not, as being Enlightenment or realizing Absolute Truth as Enlightenment is not nor will ever be an experience. Having said that, Leo is not responsible for this guy's death. Leo has gone to extensive ends, more than any spiritual teacher or even psychonaut, when it comes to the dangers of spiritual and contemplative work and of course the use of psychedelics.

Leo advocates and has taught from the beginning taking and also recognizing one's personal 100% responsibility for one's choices and actions.  This guy is responsible for acting on his own impulses, desires, and delusions and that's not on anyone, to be quite frank. Leo is transparent and clear when it comes to the dangers in this work. He encourages all the time in his work for people to slow down and to approach this work with, caution, skepticism, open-mindedness, an understanding of the propensity of the mind to delude itself, that this work isn't for everyone, and much more.

Examples of such things mentioned in his
videos:

 

- The Dangers Of Spiritual Work
- Understanding Ego Backlash
Self-Deception Part 1
Self Deception- Part 2-60+ Self
Deception Mechanisms
Self-Deception Part 3
- The Role Of Balance In Personal
Development
Becoming A Zen Devil - The Dangers Of
Half-Assing Enlightenment
-The Dark Side Of Meditation
- How To Use Psychedelics For Personal
Development
On his website/forum:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7-guidelines/

 

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/36-seek-professional-help-for-serious-issues-important/

 

 

There is empathy and compassion in wanting someone to be responsible as well.

This is just my objective way of looking at it. Meanwhile I don't say that the subjective is entirely wrong but I don't want to lose sight of the obvious objectivity in this matter. There are nuances of course, but the major points aren't wrong either.

I'm not trying to offer this from a point of judgement but rather compassion which is not easily visible on the outside however considering these points might prevent someone from taking their lives in the future. And take this work very seriously.

 

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

1 One that these teachings do not belong to Leo or Actualized Org exclusively or to forum members. These teachings are worldwide non dual teachings and are similar in all spiritual communities. These teachings carry an inherent risk which most people bypass since they understand the objective nature of reality and do not take subjective teachings with a grain of salt.

Leo Gura or people of the forum are in no way responsible for inventing these teachings. They already exist.

I agree, No one said that Leo or Actualized.org came up with the teachings out of thin air. But there is responsibility on how those teachings are presented and who they are aimed towards. 

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

2 Leo has made so many videos which talk about the dangers of spiritual teachings and practice. There are many many videos on this. I can give you links if you want.

Not just Leo, there are tons of people in spiritual communities that issue such warnings.

I have seen all of the videos that you mentioned on the bottom of you comment. My main thing is that YouTube Leo and forum Leo are different. Leo on YouTube is much more polished and detailed in his delivery but on the forum he sometimes uses platitudes flippantly which can be dangerous. There are also times where he contradicts himself when it comes to the topic of death. That can muddy the waters. 

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

3 Leo has consistently helped people who have been suicidal to not be suicidal. He has always been very life affirming. In fact his videos have helped many many people to recover from depression and suicide ideation. Even tacitly implying in a video that Leo could be responsible for this is a huge blunder. 

I agree. Much of his teachings are helpful. But that doesn't meant that there isn't a huge possibility of taking things the wrong way and using those teachings to harm ones self and others. He talks about this in his most recent video. 

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

4 Leo has gone out of his way in the forum guidelines to issue warnings about how his teachings shouldn't be  taken with a grain of salt and that this is not a cult. Cult is a huge term that involves a lot of things. It involves threatening and pressuring people to do things for the leader. This is just group think. An echo chamber mentality but just  borderline Echo chamber. It's not like Leo does not allow independent thinking here. He absolutely does. Leo doesn't control anyone's behaviour. Leo does not tell what people should do. For someone to constantly keep refering to this as a cult is a very childish. In being critical of his video, there was no cult behaviour shown.. I simply said that he is misrepresenting things and that can easily appear as slander and this is no cult like behaviour.

I agree, this place isn't a cult. But there are fanboys that take things too far and simply parrot whatever Leo says despite Leo telling them to find things out through their direct experience by looking at the material for themselves and spending time by contemplating and studying the subject in question. The behavior of the fanboys isn't Leo's fault by any means but it's important to look at how the collective ego behaves and teach things that meet the people where they're at. 

I didn't see Adeptus misrepresent anything. He never said that actualized.org was a cult. If anything he said the opposite. He mainly was saying that we shouldn't put Leo on a pedestal. 

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

5 I think every adult knows that suicide is a wrong option. This need not be specifically told. Leo has also said that his spirituality is not designed for those who have mental illnesses and who do not understand his teachings properly

 I agree, spirituality isn't designed for people with mental illness who need basic help. But the way he teaches things can look like he is advocating for something even if that wasn't his intention. 

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

6 Often people misinterpret teachings. Leo like any other spiritual teacher is not exempt to this situation. Many people might misconstrue his teachings and he cannot help. He cannot have the resources to help each and every person or figure out exactly they are taking his actions. That's a tall order that is impossible to fill.

I agree, that is possible and Leo can't help or give resources for everyone to avoid this. But he can be mindful of the pitfalls his deepest teachings have and make them available only for those he deems ready or leave it out of YouTube entirely since there is no way to mange the thousands of people who come across his videos. 

13 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

7 People on the forum had absolutely no clue that the guy was suicidal in any way or if he had such intent. In fact, he wasn't suicidal in the traditional kind of way. Most suicidal people exhibit overly emotional behaviours and usually talk about it openly to people. Or they leave clues that they are depressed. However Sunny did not leave such clues. He appeared quite happy, optimistic and positive. Also that he used to talk in a poetic manner, there was no way to exactly know if he was being serious or simply dancing around concepts. So most people here are innocent because they didn't have any beforehand knowledge and by his demeanor could not have known that he was about to kill himself. This innocence needs to be considered and it's a big factor. Had these people known that he was going to do that, then they would have obviously told the person to not do it. We here as a community, including me, have always helped people with suicidal thoughts. This is not some suicide death cult. Here people are very keen on telling people to not self harm. It's the opposite environment here. Well I feel very sad that Sunny did what he did, I also understand that if he even slightly tried to openly express his intention, people would have jumped to action. Not blaming him but suggesting that this action from his end could have easily prevented this from happening.

Also these people are not only innocent but are also dealing with grief. They had the best intentions and interests for Sunny. So if they are being blamed,it's a double blow on top of dealing with the grief of losing someone who they considered a friend 

I don't think this forum could have known what was going on with Sunny. In that way we are innocent. But it's important to look at the teachings and how they are presented because clearly that played a role in the worldview that caused the recent events. Also, blaming someone versus showing ways to take responsibility are very different things. We can take responsibility without wallowing in shame. If anything, wallowing in shame isn't going to be taking responsibility. All I'm saying is that there are things that we can do and be mindful on so that this instance doesn't happen again. 

18 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

8 There is something called as self ownership and personal responsibility which cannot be dismissed or taken for granted. Neither in this nor in any other case.

I agree, Sunny is responsible for his actions. But the forum had an impact on the way that he saw the world which led to this decision. We need to acknowledge that if we want to move forward. We all have a role that we are playing in this situation. 

21 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Leo is not responsible for this guy's death. Leo has gone to extensive ends, more than any spiritual teacher or even psychonaut, when it comes to the dangers of spiritual and contemplative work and of course the use of psychedelics.

I'm not blaming or shaming Leo. But I will say that with his influence, it's up to him to take proper safeguards from here on out and learn from this situation. When I say he or anyone is responsible for something, I mean that they have the ability to respond constructively in the present moment. Taking proper action looks different in different circumstances. Leo has a lot of power and influence on this forum, therefore he has a huge ability to respond in a way that uplifts the community.  In my opinion, given the thread Leo started and the video he let out, he is taking responsibility for this situation. Is it perfect, in my opinion no. But is he doing something about it and is that something to acknowledge, absolutely. 

[soos_mite_ah]

2 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

@soos_mite_ah

Thank you for writing such a detailed post and for seeing my video in the light it was intended. I hope others will follow your example ?

I found your video incredibly insightful and something that really resonated with me. Tbh it perfectly reflected a lot of the skepticisms I had with what I saw being discussed both the actualized.org forum and youtube channel. It felt like a breath of fresh air and an affirmation that I wasn't crazy in the things that I saw and thought were red flags. 

[Preety_India]

@soos_mite_ah  yeah, I absolutely agree with the safeguards point. I hope it will be put into action here very soon.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[soos_mite_ah]

The Limits of Science

I know that there are already a couple videos up talking about the limits of science as it is practiced today. While many of the points are valid, I feel like for most people, watching those videos is like going from pre algebra to calculus real quick. I have my critiques of science and while it isn't I  guess the highest critique of science, I guess it's closer to the collective understanding of science to where the critiques don't seem too outlandish. Instead of going from pre algebra to calculus, think of this as going from pre algebra to algebra.  

First, we have the god damn skulls 

The way experiments are conducted and the way results are interpreted are not separate from our social landscape and politics. 

The best example that articulates this is the pseudoscience that was conducted in the past to justify eugenics and racial differences. This was used to justify the notion that people of color were inherently savages, inherently stupid, and inherently inferior compared to white men. People nowadays know that this is pseudoscience based on the biases on the time and how the experiments were conducted. We know now that the way the experiments were conducted and the conclusions the scientists came to weren't doing anything more than doubling down on their current world view at the It seems very obvious now. But back then, the men who came up with such theories thought they were doing real science. Things like racism were such an integral part of life back in the 1800s and early 1900s to where even the most educated had their perspectives clouded by it. 

Here are a couple sources that go into what I said above in more detail:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/column-the-false-racist-theory-of-eugenics-once-ruled-science-lets-never-let-that-happen-again

https://pages.vassar.edu/realarchaeology/2017/03/05/phrenology-and-scientific-racism-in-the-19th-century/

There was another series of experiments studying the health of black people compared to white people during this time period. The results that came from these studies  concluded that black people were more likely to suffer from a variety of diseases and live shorter lives compared to white people. While the study itself wasn't flawed and the results were correct, the interpretation was off. Back then, this conclusion was interpreted as definitive proof that black people were genetically inferior. Now, the interpretation is that black people have worse health outcomes due to factors that contribute to systemic racism that include but aren't limited to, limited access to health care, health care providers being less likely to take the health of black people seriously, and the stress of racism and the tragedies weighing on them emotionally to where it impacts their physical health. In other words, it's not that the race that impacts their health, it's the racism. 

We now also have the field of epigenetics. Basically epigenetics in a nutshell talks about how the external environment impacts people's physical health which then over time puts a strain on genes and even alter them. One of the most well known studies on epigenetics involve the lasting physical health implications of those who are decedents of Holocaust survivors. The Jewish people who went through the Holocaust went through incredible amounts of mental, emotional, and physical torture to where even if they survived, the memories aren't only stored as trauma psychologically, but the body also keeps score by altering genes. Those altered genes are then passed on to the next generation making them more prone to certain diseases, especially anxiety and panic disorders. While this could be dismissed as generational trauma due to socialization, even when Jewish children are adopted by non-Jewish parents, they are still more likely to develop those diseases. There was also another study conducted that involved in the rates of birth defects in the Arab American community. There was a spike in the number of birth defects  per 1000 births right after 9/11. It is likely that the events of 9/11 caused a significant amount of stress for women who were pregnant at the time which raised the likelihood of a difficult birth and birth defects for the baby. 

Here are more sources on epigenetics: 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24029109/

https://forward.com/culture/318509/is-jewish-anxiety-no-laughing-matter/

Who's to say that the social, political, methodological, and capitalistic self interest biases today dont impact the way science is conducted? Science was biased before in history so who's to say it still isn't biased now in different ways with our current paradigms. I'm sure it would be obvious a couple hundred years from now but right now, it isn't obvious to us at all. You might as well ask a fish what is water. 

Next we have food,

Science isn't great at studying the mechanisms of multiple variables at once. 

Much of science is dependent on isolating a variable and studying that or else there is risk of fudging the results and misattributing factors in causal relationships. However, the problem is that the natural world doesn't isolate variables in that way. The natural world and the way it works is much messier than a contained lab environment. It's a case of the map (the lab controlled results) not being the same as the territory (the way things work in the natural world).

The thing that made me realize this is the way that nutritional science can be a difficult field. When it comes to food and they way people's genetics are different, there are many variables that need to be accounted for, And sometimes, isolating variables can mess up results. That often contridicts the way most science is conducted where variables are isolated in order to determine a causal relationship. 

For example, there is a notion in diet culture that fruit makes you fat because it has sugar. The study that was conducted isolated fructose from fruits and it compared fructose to the way regular sugar, sucrose, reacts. The test results came out with the conclusion that the body metabolizes both fructose and sucrose in the same way. In fact, the body can't tell the difference. It's well known that excess sugar messes with blood sugar levels and this causes things like weight gain. So next you know, you have a bunch of people talking about how fruit makes you fat and how fruit is basically the same as candy.

But this isn't the whole story. What separates fruit from candy is that in addition to the sugar (fructose) that is in fruits, fruits also have fiber. So, even though there is no differentiation between fructose and sugar, when you add fiber into the equation, the body metabolizes it differently. The fiber in fruits counteracts the blood sugar spike that something like fructose by itself could cause. If anything, the fiber along with the additional vitamins  that are in fruits help blood sugar levels and have an overall positive effect for the human body.  Comparing fruits to candy is a conjecture. 

Here are a couple videos that go into this more in depth: 

Isolating variables is very much necessary in some experiments but in others they are counterproductive. Isolating variables to determine a causal relationship is a very linear way of looking at science. However, multiple variables, though they can be messy, if it's managed in the right way can give a more holistic way at looking at science. The later way of doing science studies variables as one with an interconnected system rather than taking it to the side and studying it independently. The later way is more in alignment with oneness. 

I found these videos on Leo's blog when he was talking about linear binary logic to nonlinear vision logic. I think it can also be a metaphor for taking one variable into account at a time vs studying many variables at once. 

This type of multivariable thinking I suppose is more difficult for the hard sciences to implement. As someone who had to conduct studies in the social sciences, I can tell you that systemically, multivariable thinking is easier to implement when it comes to things like sociological observation, participant observation, and conducting surveys with people. In these fields, personally I found the importance of being aware of self bias since that can impact what you see and the way you see it when it comes to observation. I think more of that needs to be taken into consideration in other fields of study as well. 

 

And now, I'm going to end with capitalism 

What studies are conducted are dependent on the constrains of what society deems valuable in the moment.

This I realized after talking to one of my friends about if we could study or research anything, what would we be studying. My friend was talking about how she would look into human sexuality more along with studying paranormal activity. Then we started laughing because we were like "imagine what kind of case we would have to make and what kind of hoops we would have to jump over in order to get grant money for those kinds of studies." We would look insane. This was a light hearted conversation of how we have niche interests and how to articulate them to normies but after the conversation I couldn't help but wonder. How many things do we not study because society doesn't see it as valuable? How much knowledge goes undiscovered simply because it doesn't serve the self agenda of the larger system? 

In my opinion, the best way to do research and science is to fuck around and find out without having some type of agenda. Putting too many constraints on what you can study can stop people from making new discoveries even thought those constraints are there to protect against wasting time and getting into dead ends. But wasting time is inevitable, even if you do have constraints. Also, if we prioritize profits and funding when it comes to what we research, it is very possible that monetary gain can mess with the methodology or results of a study because that degree of self interest and self preservation can yield to propagating misinformation due to wanting to appeal to the people funding the research. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason why we don't look into Eastern or natural plant medicine is because it isn't profitable for pharmaceutical companies and because there is a western bias where we don't see the validity of anything outside of the European rationalist paradigm. There is a tendency to view Eastern and indigenous wisdom as irrational or invalid because the west as an epistemological bias where they see the traditions and the ways of knowing of other cultures as less than.  

The system has its biases. The ones that stick out to me the most is the patriarchy and capitalism. I have personal experience when it comes to research bias against women. A few months back I was diagnosed with PCOS which is a disorder that only effects women. It isn't rare or new but it is something that doctors aren't really familiar with treating. No one knows what causes PCOS and treating PCOS is basically a trial and error game that the patient has to do themselves. Women's health issues in general doesn't get as much research money and therefore isn't well researched. Another example of this is how women typically display different symptoms in the even of a stroke. But most people don't know and instead most people are only familiar with the symptoms that men display in a stroke. This can cause people to overlook strokes in women. Finally, women are more likely to deal with side effects for vaccines. This can especially seen with the COVID vaccine where women tend to fall ill right afterwards in higher rates compared to men. This is because most test trials test on men over women therefore vaccines often take the male biology into account more. 

The reason for this research bias is this sociological concept that is along the lines of whatever group is dominant in society, that's the group that is normalized and seen as the default.  In society, men have more power than women. In research men's issues are prioritized while women's issues are dismissed. In test trials, men's bodies are seen as the default while women's bodies are seen as the anomaly because of things like hormones. To me that's ridiculous because how can half of the world's population be seen as an anatomical anomaly? The only answer is self bias. 

Self bias is inevitable when what studies are conducted are dependent on the constrains of what society deems valuable in the moment. How we define what is valuable and worthwhile is relative to the time and place. And currently we live in a time an place where materialism, men, capitalism, and whiteness are prioritized over truth, discovery, and exploration.

I really liked this quote from this article that talks about why women are more likely to have side effects from the COVID vaccine: 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/10/covid-vaccine-women-report-more-side-effects-than-men-heres-why/7139366002/

Quote

“In terms of medications and drugs, many of the medications we have on the market today was approved based on clinical research that excluded women,” Morgan said. “What was happening, and still happens to this day in some cases, is the male body was used as the standard, and it was a very specific type of body, certain age, weight and white.”  

[soos_mite_ah]

Mainstream vs Intellectual Versions of the Spiral Dynamics Stages

I know people talk about the healthy and unhealthy manifestations of each of the spiral stages. But I think it would also be interesting to see the nuance between the mainstream and the intellectual versions of the stages as well. 

I was thinking the other day something along the lines of "isn't it funny that the Kardashians and scientists who operate under the materialist paradigm inhabit the same spiral stage?" Both groups of people are stage orange. The Kardashian are entertaining and something that people watch to chill tf out and turn off their brains a little. There isn't much complexity there. (I wouldn't say there isn't any complexity because I have seen people do analysis on the Kardashians, the way they impact society, and what they reflect about society. IMO, I don't think there is any shallow form of entertainment, rather it's the lens you use to look at it.) But on the other hand, there is a lot of complexity in scientific studies. As someone who isn't really good with science and is a normie in that regard, I need things to be broken down in layman's terms because god knows that I'm not going to understand a thing from technical jargon. Every day I pick up my phone and I know how to use it and I know that it is a product of technological advancement, but if you ask me how it works, I'm probably going to say something along ~~**science**~~ which isn't that different from saying that this shit looks magical to me since I don't know how the intricacies work.  

The other stages has something similar. A mainstream example of stage blue is someone like Ben Shapiro, not super complex and appeals to a large audience, while people who set up the catholic church and it's doctrine is a more intellectual example of stage blue. A mainstream example of stage green is like your average social justice warrior while a more intellectual example of green might be Cornel West. 

Mainstream Green

Intellectual Green

I think there is great value in both the mainstream and intellectual versions of the stages. I think that the intellectual versions of the stages build up the framework for society and eventually those ideas become mainstream to where it feels like common sense or the baseline of society. For example, we needed stage orange philosophers from the Enlightenment era to come up with ideas on how society should be built or else if say the Kardashians came up in a predominantly stage blue society, they'd probably be cast out or burnt at the stake for being too sinful. But at the same time, mainstream forms of the stages shouldn't be looked down upon because they are "less complex." I think it's important to package higher consciousness ideals and stages in a way that regular people can understand it and integrate it into their lives. 

I think the necessity of packaging higher consciousness ideals in a easy to understand mainstream fashion can be best displayed by the scene from 16:34 -17:10. The problem with too much intellectualization is not the complexity of the thoughts and ideas not resonating with the "ignorant masses" but it's the intellectual and spiritual ego it tends to exuberate. People can sense that air of superiority off of you if you think you are more conscious and smarter than thou and it isn't a good look. 

I think that's part of the problem with stage yellow. The stage is still at it's infancy and most people who get to this stage get there is by doing a lot of consciousness work and reading/analyzing theory. Which is fair, we need to set the intellectual framework of stage yellow before a more mainstream and relaxed version of the stage comes along. But at the same time, I can't help but feel that stage yellow, more than any of the other stages, is going to be more prone to this intellectual hubris because of it's desire to model and analyze the world. Intellectualization will be more of a fixation. Like I want to be my stage yellow self around people but at the same time I can't help but feel that going on about some complex theory would be a buzzkill at a party. There isn't anything wrong with complex theory and having deep conversations, but it isn't appropriate in every situation, especially in situations where people want to let loose and relax in a party.  There are situations that require you to be more casual and I wonder what a casual form of yellow would even look like. 

So yeah, that's something that I'm thinking about. I'm wondering what is the best way of making stage yellow ideals mainstream and palatable without watering it down.

I think a good example of a mainstream, casual example of stage yellow is the show Avatar The Last Airbender. The show discussed spirituality, the importance of looking at different perspectives, and a variety of social issues ranging from genocide, cultural appropriation, sexism, animal rights, and more. While all of that sounds like green, the show did this in a very stage yellow way to where they didn't demonize the antagonists rather they humanized them and showed that their behaviors aren't outside of the system they were born into it. And by the way, this is a kids' show that was aired on Nickelodeon and can be found on Netflix. I love how this show breaks down complex themes to where even children can understand and learn from them. The lessons are also framed in a way that people of any stage can resonate with it and feel compelled to reflect because it takes on a route where it humanizes systemic issues rather than moralizing and lecturing to the audience. Even though mainstream American culture has its center of gravity at stage orange, this stage yellow show has a 97 on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and a 99 by audiences.  

I did a whole thread on this about a year ago just fangirling about the show and how/why it's stage green/yellow:

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Mainstream vs Intellectual Versions of the Spiral Dynamics Stages

Holy moly this is your 'best' journal entry bar far

I love how deliberately you teased apart "casual vs intellectual" in a way that made me as a reader think "oh yeah. that sounds right."

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

So yeah, that's something that I'm thinking about. I'm wondering what is the best way of making stage yellow ideals mainstream and palatable without watering it down.

Uh oh. Am I hearing some life purpose ambitions slipping out? 

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I think a good example of a mainstream, casual example of stage yellow is the show Avatar The Last Airbender.

Girl don't even get me started -

[soos_mite_ah]

A Rant About the Incels in the Dating Section 

I'm just writing this out to get it out of my system. It may or may not make sense

I find it so annoying that some of the guys here are so fixated on sex mainly because they aren't getting any. To a certain extent I get it since I feel rather repressed because of my lack of experience and I find myself thinking about sex too often. But even though I have these thoughts, they aren't creating a significant portion of my world view. 

There are guys out here talking about the 80-20 rule on how the top 20% of men attract 80% of women and the rest of the men get the scraps. I mean, from experience of being out and about, I have met ugly people of both genders getting in and out of relationships. If the 80-20 rule was true in this case, we probably wouldn't have 7+ billion on this earth. This point reeks a lack of personal responsibility, poor social skills, and inferiority complex. I'm willing to bet that most of these guys aren't even that ugly (on the outside at least) and they built up an identity of being undesirable. 

Then there is the whole rating women on a scale of 1-10. I find this really weird tbh because of how subjective beauty is and how the standards change every decade or so. I'm pretty sure that if you put me in a time machine and dropped me into the 1920s that people back then would look at me and think that I'm an abomination because I look like the opposite of the standard at that time. On top of beauty being subjective, I find it weird that it's something to be measured. Sure I have probably said that if you dress nice you can go from a 4 to a 7 real quick, but it's more of a figure of speech talking about how small changes can make you more attractive rather than actually being on a 1-10 scale. This whole scale makes beauty seem something rigid and absolute as though if you aren't a 6 or above based on some scale an incel made up, that you are destined to die alone.   

And I can tell just how insecure these guys are on their own desirability as well as their looks. They project it out to other women in the form of objectification because they also objectify themselves. They have this idea in their head that unless they have a lot of material success that they won't be able to attract anyone at all. And when I look at that, I'm sitting there like.... that's such a materialistic way of looking at yourself. That's not all that men have to offer and that's not all that women look for. Similarly, men aren't always only fixated on whether a girl looks like a model. Yeah being attracted to your partner is important, but there isn't any one way of being attractive especially when you take character into account. It's like these incels think that all men and all women only operate from the most superficial level and aren't capable of creating any type of bond with a person that doesn't have to do with looks and money. 

Then there is this notion of how guys don't get laid and how women have all the power. Just because you aren't getting laid doesn't mean that the vast majority of men have a problem with this. Most normal guys figure this stuff out in their own pace from their high school to young adult years. The average man isn't some incel who is online the vast majority of their waking life. People actually have lives smh. 

Next, there is this fixation with ranking high in value in some type of sexual market place. And to that I say, stop viewing human beings like a commodity and focus on connecting with them. Stop thinking you're in competition with people and stop having this superiority/ inferiority complex because that shit isn't cute and will repel the people you are trying to attract. This also goes along with the resentment that these guys have towards people who are having sex. Worry about your own damn self, Why does it matter what other people are doing with their genitals? Mind your own damn business. They put sex on such a high pedestal like as if it's their oxygen. Honey, it's not that special or interesting and most mature adults don't' care whether you're a virgin or not. They don't care about your sex life in that way because they are minding their own business like you're supposed to. Having no experience is such a part of them to where it's like they behave as though they have virgin written across their forehead.

And finally, there is this notion that everything revolves around sex. Like these guys are so fucking fixated on this one area of life. Sometimes I get this vibe that they think that everyone is fixated on sex the way they are. Oh you're focused on your career? You doing it for sex to attract a mate. Oh you like dressing up and expressing yourself? You doing it  to be more attractive so you can get sex to attract a mate. Oh, you have genuine hobbies and interest? You doing it for sex to attract a mate so that you appear like a well rounded partner. Oh, you want to develop yourself? You doing it for sex to attract a mate. And no matter how you present yourself, it always comes back to how you're trying to attract sex into your life. I get that sex is a need for many people and that it can be frustrating to go without it for an extended period of time but there are plenty of other areas of life that you can find fulfillment and joy in. Sex and attraction doesn't have to take over your life. 

They just come up with so many theories that further entrench them into their misogynistic world view and their victim mentality to where it's genuinely astounding how deep they go. These mf don't need pick up, they need  therapy and medication.