Why does our universe have fixed set of laws in a particular way?

[seriousman24]

If you accept the existence of "others" then others must also be subject to the passive reactive sensory imaginative reception of all sensations so technically for you to imagine really hardcore stuff like phasing through a wall you might have to hack those very fundamentals that connect every life form you know since they are also unconsciously letting the physical stability of the world use their imagination as a resource to keep it going; maybe it's a fight of imagination(through love or playfulness changing or weaving/adding your own imagination to the already established fundamental biologically imagination of physical stability that less sentient matter is reverse projecting on us through consciousness in a perfectly synchronized way since we "imagine" to have non sentient patterns of matter on us which is our physical bodies by nature of having sense organs that are "imagining" things for us);you'd have to do it by yourself with no support in an entire new universe, maybe this human reality can just be seen as a template for us to become willing creators.Thank you for reading my word salad haha.

[Nahm]

25 minutes ago, An young being said:

@Nahm , my imagination is so powerful, yet I am not able to alter it. Why not?

Imagination is imagining itself to be a finite formed individual self which possesses imagination. There is no such self. That is imagination, as it were. 

[Member]

16 hours ago, Artsu said:

That's how it was made. The spirit world has laws too, but there's a lot more room to move.

Made by who?

19 hours ago, An young being said:

We have the power to imagine things... We have electricity. We have gravity.

Maybe the mind needs some more electricity and light to change the body chemicals.

[LastThursday]

53 minutes ago, An young being said:

@LastThursdayIt is made up to explain nature. Why is nature in a specific way following a specific patterns rather than being something random?

My point was deep.

Do we actually experience the world as it is? Or are we always experiencing just our interpretation of the world? Are the specific patterns really in the world? Or are the patterns just a product of our interpretation of the world?

For a concrete example, take the Mona Lisa. Is it a picture of a woman? Or is it a just a bunch of brush strokes? Is the pattern of the Mona Lisa really there? Or is she just in our imagination?

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

My point was deep.

Do we actually experience the world as it is? Or are we always experiencing just our interpretation of the world? Are the specific patterns really in the world? Or are the patterns just a product of our interpretation of the world?

For a concrete example, take the Mona Lisa. Is it a picture of a woman? Or is it a just a bunch of brush strokes? Is the pattern of the Mona Lisa really there? Or is she just in our imagination?

And what's REALLY the difference between the two? 

Think about that. 

[LastThursday]

31 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And what's REALLY the difference between the two? 

Think about that. 

Yeah, that's the question I was begging.  Everything is imagination - there is no world "out there". But if I'd said that first, everyone would have rolled their eyes.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, LastThursday said:

Yeah, that's the question I was begging.  Everything is imagination - there is no world "out there". But if I'd said that first, everyone would have rolled their eyes.   

Your interpretation of the world is the world and the world is your interpretation of the world.  

So when you ask : are these patterns that we call "laws" there?   

The answer is yes AND no.   You seem to suggest that the answer is just NO by appealing to the fact that these patterns are not found out in the world but rather a projection of the mind and therfore they are not objective .. But when you say that everything is a projection of the mind then it becomes objective because it's the only reality and there is no contrast to it. 

[Member]

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

Everything is imagination - there is no world "out there".

Agreed, the Universe or nature cannot exist independently of our perception but @An young being is asking why there are fixed laws. We usually assume that there's an Universe prior to our experience but the question imo is who or what sets up the rules? Is it a collective, or an individual mechanism that glues all the things together?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Member

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

The answer is yes AND no.

We're singing from the same hymn sheet.

Are the laws and patterns real? Yes. Are they fixed? No.

They are real only insofar as they are being imagined in the moment. And as we're both saying, imagination is the ground of everything.  Subjective and objective are the same thing.

If we're talking scientific laws which is what I think @An young being is referring to, then they cannot be fixed. 

1 hour ago, Member said:

but the question imo is who or what sets up the rules?

Science is subject to revision at any point. For example to say that gravity is a fixed law is foolish. Are we talking Newtonian gravity or relativistic gravity or whatever new type of gravity that comes along in future? Science is a relative collective enterprise, there are no fixed absolute certainties: that would be religion. The laws (patterns) come from science not God. And if not scientific, then I'm not sure what sort of laws are being talked about here.

[An young being]

3 hours ago, Member said:

Maybe the mind needs some more electricity and light to change the body chemicals.

3 hours ago, seriousman24 said:

 

Yes, but still I think only the perception of the world will change using electricity and chemicals. Maybe one day we will create virtual worlds using our imagination and make us do whatever we want but still they have to be within the rules that we program ,which still follow the rules of the universe. We create virtual worlds consciously so that we can have fun. If it's the case within this universe, should it be called imagination? Doesn't imagination mean creating whatever reality we want, including the rules? What's limiting our imagination? Isn't the term misleading?

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Your interpretation of the world is the world and the world is your interpretation of the world.  

So when you ask : are these patterns that we call "laws" there?   

The answer is yes AND no.   You seem to suggest that the answer is just NO by appealing to the fact that these patterns are not found out in the world but rather a projection of the mind and therfore they are not objective .. But when you say that everything is a projection of the mind then it becomes objective because it's the only reality and there is no contrast to it. 

Let us assume everything is the projection of our mind. There can be two possible projectors I can think of. One is the individual's mind. If it is the case, then how can the other individuals' minds project something that does not exist simultaneously with the same accuracy?

If we consider the single consciousness existing simultaneously as individual minds as well as everything else, what makes you think the consciousness is capable of imagining what it wants? Why can't it be random stuff? What if there is no imagination at all, but simply everything that can be imagined?

43 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

We're singing from the same hymn sheet.

Are the laws and patterns real? Yes. Are they fixed? No.

They are real only insofar as they are being imagined in the moment. And as we're both saying, imagination is the ground of everything.  Subjective and objective are the same thing.

If we're talking scientific laws which is what I think @An young being is referring to, then they cannot be fixed. 

Science is subject to revision at any point. For example to say that gravity is a fixed law is foolish. Are we talking Newtonian gravity or relativistic gravity or whatever new type of gravity that comes along in future? Science is a relative collective enterprise, there are no fixed absolute certainties: that would be religion. The laws (patterns) come from science not God. And if not scientific, then I'm not sure what sort of laws are being talked about here.

By fixed, I don't mean the laws that we discover, but the laws that we perceive in our reality. Why can't I fly to moon without a rocket even though I am able to imagine it? The laws are the ones preventing me from doing that.

[An young being]

20 hours ago, Nahm said:

There are no more separate things imagined in your mind than there are in a world. You’re imagining there are separate things. Your reference to a world existing is the evidence of the power of your imagination / mind. 

@NahmAre you saying that I am capable of closing my eyes and create whatever reality I want without any external stimuli?

Edited July 20, 2020 by An young being

[commie]

6 minutes ago, An young being said:

What's limiting our imagination? Isn't the term misleading?

Yes, it's misleading... as is much of what is stated here.

But the first question is a very good question in spite of the misleading word. For instance, can you imagine a square circle? Why not?

7 minutes ago, An young being said:

Why can't I fly to moon without a rocket even though I am able to imagine it? The laws are the ones preventing me from doing that.

It is obviously possible to fly to the moon without a rocket, just not practical right now (but then flying to the moon with a rocket is also impractical right now!). The only people who flew to the moon were part of the same program which was based on rockets so I understand why you might associate rockets with flying to the moon but it's not the only way.

Nobody knows what laws prevents them from doing this or that (if any). What you may be getting at is: what's limiting the laws we perceive (scientific or otherwise)? It's a similar question to "what's limiting our imagination" but it is also very different...

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, An young being said:

Let us assume everything is the projection of our mind. 

8 minutes ago, An young being said:

 

"our" mind?  What's that lol?  No such thing in actuality. There is no a "you" who owns a "mind"..show me where is these things other than in "the mind"? 

10 minutes ago, An young being said:

One is the individual's mind. If it is the case, then how can the other individuals' minds project something that does not exist simultaneously with the same accuracy?

How do you know?.  How do you know there is any other minds out there other than your "own" mind right now projecting or imagining or perceiving the actuality of now?  

 

13 minutes ago, An young being said:

what makes you think the consciousness is capable of imagining what it wants? Why can't it be random stuff? What if there is no imagination at all, but simply everything that can be imagined?

What is consciousness?  

What's the difference between randomness and order?  How could one of them exist without the other?  Can you have up without down? 

What is imagination?  What is thinking? What is causality?  What is logic?  How do you derive conclusions from premises? Is there any absolute parameters for that or is it just purely relativistic games? What is "everything that can be imagined" ?  Could it be captured or isn't it a must that it's a paradox?  

Is there answers to these questions? 

Yes there is answers.. But these answers never answer the question of what asking questions and answering them ultimately answeres. 

[Member]

2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

The laws (patterns) come from science not God. And if not scientific, then I'm not sure what sort of laws are being talked about here.

Laws of nature? ?

Is there any moon when you don't observe it? And science of what or who?

1 hour ago, An young being said:

Yes, but still I think only the perception of the world will change using electricity and chemicals. Maybe one day we will create virtual worlds using our imagination and make us do whatever we want but still they have to be within the rules that we program ,which still follow the rules of the universe. We create virtual worlds consciously so that we can have fun. If it's the case within this universe, should it be called imagination? Doesn't imagination mean creating whatever reality we want, including the rules? What's limiting our imagination? Isn't the term misleading?

The universe is your body which is made of atoms. So if you change your brain chemistry, you can experience a different reality. There's no reason to create another virtual world as we're already living in one ?

As for what's limiting the imagination, consider that everything in the universe can at its core be explained by light. Light transmits spatial and temporal information... so an explanation would be that when there is a delay / uncertainty in your intention, reality takes longer to manifest (future). But it's probably way more complicated than that, maybe only an alchemist could be able to turn imagination into reality. So you'd better ask a mage ?

[LastThursday]

14 hours ago, An young being said:

Why can't I fly to moon without a rocket even though I am able to imagine it?

I don't know.

But here are some intuitions I have about it:

1. Your personal egoic imagination is not reality. So the moon of your imagination has nothing to do with the moon in your reality. For example try and draw the moon from your imagination, then compare it to the real thing. For your imagination to become reality, you would have to get completely lost and consumed by it - a bit like dreaming at night. Maybe a psychedelic would help you do that.
2. Imagine you had a control, a slider which went all the way from complete order to complete random chaos.  On one end complete order, would be utterly boring, nothing would ever change for eternity, it would be completely frozen and still. On the other end, nothing would be still, everything would change every second, it would be a confusing jumble of experience and you couldn't make any sense of it whatsoever. As you can see you can't live a life at either extreme, the only way to live it is to have the slider somewhere in the middle. There's enough order to make it sensible, but enough randomness to make new things happen. In other words the "laws" are the orderly part of existence.
3. If everything in your imagination came true, you wouldn't be able to lead a normal life. How would you control what imagination became reality and what didn't? Would it be possible to maintain your sanity?
4. If everything in your imagination became reality, would you still call it imagination?

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by LastThursday

[Leo Gura]

On 7/19/2020 at 0:19 PM, An young being said:

We have gravity. We have electricity. We cannot move our body through a wall. We cannot move things with our mind. Nobody is casting spells that light the skies. We have the power to imagine things with our mind but the same cannot be done in the world where we exist. WHY and WHY NOT???

LOVE!

- - - - -

But also, the Universe does not have any fixed laws. All laws are flexible, temporary, local, and relative. Gravity does not exist in your dreams.

[remember]

17 hours ago, An young being said:

@NahmAre you saying that I am capable of closing my eyes and create whatever reality I want without any external stimuli?

there is no internal no external - it’s all you. there is no rocket if it is not imagined. peter pan dreamt himself to fly. without believing in possibilities you can’t create them.

do planes exist if we forget them? is looking at the sky external stimuli? more so, does the sky exist?

Edited July 21, 2020 by remember

[Member]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

LOVE!

- - - - -

But also, the Universe does not have any fixed laws. All laws are flexible, temporary, local, and relative. Gravity does not exist in your dreams.

If we are able to cure any ailment or disease via placebo, why wouldn't be able to fly like superman? ?

And love heals, hate kills ?

[Nahm]

19 hours ago, An young being said:

@NahmAre you saying that I am capable of closing my eyes and create whatever reality I want without any external stimuli?

I’m saying you create everything that can be referenced by being it. Because “it” is you, there is no such thing as a “separation”. There is the experience of believing thoughts about there being separations, but if you inspect amply, you will indeed find there is no such ‘thing’.  Because “reality” is you, by being “it”,  you’ve forgotten or veiled yourself from your own infinitude. But you are you. Every ‘aspect’ or ‘facet’ of you is in tact and present, and ready to create the life you most want, within the apparent reality which you are being / which is Being. 

[An young being]

17 hours ago, Member said:

 

As for what's limiting the imagination, consider that everything in the universe can at its core be explained by light. Light transmits spatial and temporal information... so an explanation would be that when there is a delay / uncertainty in your intention, reality takes longer to manifest (future). But it's probably way more complicated than that, maybe only an alchemist could be able to turn imagination into reality. So you'd better ask a mage ?

Light is one thing that always fascinates me, thank you for giving a new perception to it. @Member

4 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I don't know.

But here are some intuitions I have about it:

1. Your personal egoic imagination is not reality. So the moon of your imagination has nothing to do with the moon in your reality. For example try and draw the moon from your imagination, then compare it to the real thing. For your imagination to become reality, you would have to get completely lost and consumed by it - a bit like dreaming at night. Maybe a psychedelic would help you do that.
2. Imagine you had a control, a slider which went all the way from complete order to complete random chaos.  On one end complete order, would be utterly boring, nothing would ever change for eternity, it would be completely frozen and still. On the other end, nothing would be still, everything would change every second, it would be a confusing jumble of experience and you couldn't make any sense of it whatsoever. As you can see you can't live a life at either extreme, the only way to live it is to have the slider somewhere in the middle. There's enough order to make it sensible, but enough randomness to make new things happen. In other words the "laws" are the orderly part of existence.
3. If everything in your imagination came true, you wouldn't be able to lead a normal life. How would you control what imagination became reality and what didn't? Would it be possible to maintain your sanity?
4. If everything in your imagination became reality, would you still call it imagination?

 

 

Thank you for being honest that you don't know. @LastThursday, your intuitions make great sense too. Coming to the second point, I agree that laws make life beautiful and possible, but why not something different now and then, isn't life too boring with the same laws?