Leo, can you elaborate on the idea that I “imagine” that I had a past?

[Dylan Page]

You say that I imagined my past but my memory seems to reflect the current moment. If I leave a bottle in a room and come back 20 minutes later, it’s still gonna be there. I guess I don’t know what you mean by I “imagined it”, because it seems to have validity in this reality.  I guess you could say that the bottle still being there is imagined, and the laws of physics and stuff, and I guess the general concept of continuity, such that a comprehensible reality in which I can actually function is created. One of the reasons I’m concerned about this is not only due to the extremely imperative function of memory, but also the fact that my past makes me who I am, or at least who “I”, my ego, is. Saying that it never happened undermines this and destroys my sense of self, which I care deeply about. Perhaps a better way to think about this reality is that it’s imagined but it’s also self contained and in that way, it’s “real”? 

[Justin Evans]

One thing that helped me personally with this question is instead of asking myself "How is it possible?", ask "Where does it already happen?" Because this question helps you see that there are plenty of scenarios where we admit we imagine things and we dont even need to ask why or how it works. 

The biggest example that comes to mind is dreams. Some people have more vivid dreams than others, so not everyone can relate but I will stick with this example for simplicity.

Notice that in a dream, you become a character, your mind creates the place, time, and setting, all of this happens in one single present moment but creates an illusion of continuity. You can go to a museum in your dreams, you can remember being in that museum from 15 years ago and you can still recall art pieces the tour guide is talking about. It is only when you wake up when you realize it is imagination. 

On the topic of objectivity, how is it that a glass of water stays on your table when you leave your house?

We can go back to the dream example, you can dream that cars pass by on the highway, you dont know where they are all going, it feels objective, but it is all created by you, and it works.

The point I am trying to make is that asking where imagination already happens is important, because those outlier experiences such as dreams, where there is Illusion of time and objectivity, IS part of reality.

 

Of course, not to misinterpret as using dreams as the answer to your questionbut rather just to help see new possibilities and ways to open your mind. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Dylan Page said:

One of the reasons I’m concerned about this is not only due to the extremely imperative function of memory, but also the fact that my past makes me who I am, or at least who “I”, my ego, is. Saying that it never happened undermines this and destroys my sense of self, which I care deeply about.

Lol

Of course!

Your entire personal story is a fiction.

The past is always imaginary.

What would you be if you had zero memory?

[cnfvm]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

Of course!

Your entire personal story is a fiction.

The past is always imaginary.

What would you be if you had zero memory?

that doesn't mean past wasn't real. he is curious about that

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, cnfvm said:

that doesn't mean past wasn't real. he is curious about that

@cnfvm The notion of past happens always here and Now.

What does that tell us about "the past", since even the imagination of it happens here and Now?

[cnfvm]

Just now, Javfly33 said:

@cnfvm The notion of past happens always here and Now.

What does that tell us about "the past", since even the imagination of it happens here and Now?

Past was real in the past to you, but you are imagining and shaping informating and bulding an image of past events to remember past NOW.

[ivankiss]

17 minutes ago, cnfvm said:

Past was real in the past to you, but you are imagining and shaping informating and bulding an image of past events to remember past NOW.

Nicely put ?

[Javfly33]

27 minutes ago, cnfvm said:

Past was real in the past to you, 

Notice that "was" feels very real and very different from IS. Yet "was", "past", and "very real feeling of past" happen Now.

Are you sure something as the "past" exist? Have you ever experienced something as the "past" or is an idea that always have happened Now?

[cnfvm]

Just now, Javfly33 said:

Notice that "was" feels very real and very different from IS. Yet "was", "past", and "very real feeling of past" happen Now.

Are you sure something as the "past" exist? Have you ever experienced something as the "past" or is an idea that always have happened Now?

what do you even mean "past" exist? do you ignore your childhood? 

[Leo Gura]

There is no such thing as past! It's all an illusion!

No past ever. Only here and now.

Yes, this is very radical.

Take a psychedelic to see.

[Dylan Page]

@Leo Gura Idk, there’s something that just doesn’t click with it. The reason I can’t take psychedelics is because thoughts that come up during trips scare me beyond reason. I suppose I need to shed those fears before I try to just go for truth head on, it needs to be a gentle and slow process

[ivankiss]

@Leo Gura Imagine a turtle.

Is there no such thing as a turtle? Is turtle an illusion? Imagination is real. Imagination is now.

[James123]

26 minutes ago, cnfvm said:

what do you even mean "past" exist? do you ignore your childhood? 

YouR life or universe is a thought. There is no beginning, thats why always now. 

[cnfvm]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no such thing as past! It's all an illusion!

No past ever. Only here and now.

Yes, this is very radical.

Take a psychedelic to see.

oh , it took me 20 minutes to remember to reply to your post sorry. yep that was 20 minutes ago.

[James123]

1 minute ago, cnfvm said:

oh , it took me 20 minutes to remember to reply to your post sorry. yep that was 20 minutes ago.

Memories are accumulated thoughts. Sleeping has no differences than being awake. 

[cnfvm]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Memories are accumulated thoughts. Sleeping has no differences than being awake. 

what do you mean ? are you saying awake state is some kind of automated happenings? 

[James123]

Just now, cnfvm said:

are you saying awake state is some kind of automated happenings? 

There is no such a thing as state. States happens within so called mind. Mind is an illusion. Now is non duality. 

[justfortoday]

4 hours ago, Dylan Page said:

You say that I imagined my past but my memory seems to reflect the current moment. If I leave a bottle in a room and come back 20 minutes later, it’s still gonna be there. I guess I don’t know what you mean by I “imagined it”, because it seems to have validity in this reality.  I guess you could say that the bottle still being there is imagined, and the laws of physics and stuff, and I guess the general concept of continuity, such that a comprehensible reality in which I can actually function is created. One of the reasons I’m concerned about this is not only due to the extremely imperative function of memory, but also the fact that my past makes me who I am, or at least who “I”, my ego, is. Saying that it never happened undermines this and destroys my sense of self, which I care deeply about. Perhaps a better way to think about this reality is that it’s imagined but it’s also self contained and in that way, it’s “real”? 

@Dylan Page  , let me try to provide a clear, concise response to your question, as I once deeply pondered this exact setup.

The answer is incredibly radical, and will make zero sense, unless you experience it yourself.

There is no past, there is only now, which is a perpetual state of consciousness that is omnipresent and omniscient. 

Like Leo said, there are substances that can aid in realizing what I'm saying below.

Your entire past is a total fiction.

Basically, reality is a hallucination that gets created by your sub-conscious mind based on the last "frame" you experience.

Have you ever wondered why, from your direct experience, you have no head/face? I am not joking.  What do you see instead of your head/face? You see the world. This "world" is emanating from you as a projection.

Ask yourself, am I seeing the color red through my eyes.....OR am I projecting or birthing the color red inside my head/mind.

The entire universe and its contents live within you, because what you really are is not a biological being. You are the "space" in which light and sound create the dimension of experience, or what you call reality. Everyone and everything is a projection of your sub-conscious mind. So, you as God, generate your reality unconsciously just by advancing this train of "consciousness", which is a never-ending stream of moments.

Edited July 19, 2020 by justfortoday

[cnfvm]

Just now, James123 said:

There is no such a thing as state. States happens within so called mind. Mind is an illusion. Now is non duality. 

what confirms your memories? if a memory is valid or not?

[Someone here]

If you want to cut the shit about this topic .. Just sit down and do very simple contemplation and self-observation.. You will quickly discover that "the past" is literally just and idea (or image) that is occurring now.. And that's all that there is to it.  Then the next thought you will have is this "yes the memory is occurring NOW but the actual event that is been carried by the memory happened in" the past " not in the NOW".... And again you have to notice that that is just another idea that is occurring in the now.  Now whether you gonna basically keep repeating the same question about new occurring ideas or you just get it is determined by how much coffee you drank today.