I need some advice :)

[Dario1995]

If you dont want to read the whole story,i understand, you can skip to the questions

BACKSTORY

So, 7 years ago i had sort of intelectual awakening. It was like all my beliefs were just shattered like a piece of glass. It was induced by weed and my curious mind. I was just a kid (17yo), and with that discovery that everything i believed in was actually lie (religion mostly), depression came with derealisation and depersonalisation. I have to mention that in that time, searching for answers, i found Osho, Mooji and Papaji, and the more i was in "spirituality" the more feeling of depression came in. So i sort of gave up on finding my true Self, and i built some self image, constantly trying to deny that i can see that is all but thoughts creating a story. Derealisation was in for about 6 months, deppresion was still there, until i went on medication, and i was feeling all great again. Quality of my life increased immensely. 

NOW

Now I am 24yo, i cant really lie to myself anymore, i know i am not who i think i am. Its like i am stuck right now. I cant pretend that i am a 24yo male, with a job, car, a girlfriend. Its like an American dream, but the problem is i know its a dream. 

I am doing self inquire work for about 6 months, with ocassional meditation, litteraly 24/7. I am mostly listening to Rupert Spira, Mooji, Papaji and Adyashanti (and recently Leo) 

So i am now in a place where i cant control it anymore. I cant go back anymore. Im all in, if needed ill do 1000 lifetimes to discover my true Self. But the more insights i have, more pain comes. I am aware that i am not that pain, but i cant say i feel happy.

Last few days it was horror for my ego. I litteraly watch this ego crumbling, but it never dies.

And then i read some posts that the whole process should be blissfull and liberating. But Recently, 95% of time it is like desolving and dying and with all the social activites and a job, its really not pleasant experience. 

I mean i have ocassional beautiful experiences, like, two days ago, i was near a tree, and it was raining. And for a whole two seconds, it was reality.First time experienced no self. But then of course, "I" popped in to claim the experience.

Recently i found this forum, which helped me a lot, so i am really thankful to you all <3 

QUESTIONS

I have only two questions:

Is all this normal, or am i doing something wrong?

Should it be more loving, peaceful experience? 

Peace to all. 

- Dario - 

[Demeter]

@Dario1995 , could I please ask if you are leading a 'normal' life at the same time? Have you been through college and now have a job you enjoy?

The intensity of your search, which I imagine is taking up all your spare time, itself can cause the feeling of hopelessness. More often than not, there is nothing loving and peaceful about spiritual endeavours.  I, for example, at your age was experiencing the same or a Dark Night Of The Soul  (have you read about the DNOTS experience?) and tried to cope by finding distractions. i.e., work I could enjoy, hobbies, friends, etc. The medication which lifts you provides an opportunity to find these distractions, preferably without guilt. One really can't strive and crave 24/7. You need to give yourself a break and rest in the knowledge that your aspirations set you apart from the majority of humanity.  And most certainly, there will be a breakthrough.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Demeter

[Dario1995]

@Demeter Yes, i did, until a month ago, when i completely gave up myself to self inquiry. It seems to me that i need some grounding. In a week i am starting at a new job, which is far more serious than what i am doing currently, in sense of free time, and mind occupying. ( i am a civil engineer). 

But every time i try do enjoy something, thought immediatly apperas : hmm, who is enjoying this? Who is aware of that thought? Et cetera. 

I did now, it makes sense. What i learned is that depression often( not always) means "work in progress".

You know, my frustration lies in spontaneous enlightenment  stories ( Eckhart for example). It is like, i want that ?.

Maybe i need to mention, before this phase, i was crying like 4,5 times a day, not from sadness, but from increased sensitivity I experienced.  

Thank You so much for this reply. And i like to chat, therefore long posts.

Much Love

-Dario-

 

52 minutes ago, Demeter said:

@Dario1995 , could I please ask if you are leading a 'normal' life at the same time? Have you been through college and now have a job you enjoy?

The intensity of your search, which I imagine is taking up all your spare time, itself can cause the feeling of hopelessness. More often than not, there is nothing loving and peaceful about spiritual endeavours.  I, for example, at your age was experiencing the same or a Dark Night Of The Soul  (have you read about the DNOTS experience?) and tried to cope by finding distractions. i.e., work I could enjoy, hobbies, friends, etc. The medication which lifts you provides an opportunity to find these distractions, preferably without guilt. One really can't strive and crave 24/7. You need to give yourself a break and rest in the knowledge that your aspirations set you apart from the majority of humanity.  And most certainly, there will be a breakthrough.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Dario1995

[TripleFly]

This is not going to be helpful:

Sounds like spiritual bootcamp, and not life. Life is what's it all about, so your ego is going to make your life hell to wake up you up...

[Demeter]

@Dario1995 , those stories of spontaneous enlightenment and bliss experiences are more depressing than inspiring. Wonder how many people strive and aspire for the same and feel despair when nothting comes their way. I was given channelled advice that the high anxiety and tension caused by the striving acts as a barrier and so it is self-defeating. I spent many days and weeks in the belief that if I cried hard enough or desired hard enough I would become enlightened.  Of course, it didn't happen. 

Have you read "Enlightenment Ain't What it's Cracked Up to be: A Journey of Discovery, Snow and Jazz in the Soul" by Robert Foreman? It is the most sensible book written on the topic. You'll find interviews by Robert Foreman on YouTube.

[Nahm]

@Dario1995

When you notice a perspective doesn’t feel good, are you able to let it go?  Maybe even find your way to a better feeling perspective...?

[Dario1995]

@TripleFly Im not afraid of the experience. Im not gonna try change it, just be aware of it and move on. 

This monkey mind is more and more drowning in the conciusness, and it is trying to be important as it was. 

@Demeter Yes, it is familiar to me, that desire to be enlightened. 

I did not read it. Actually i do not read so much spiritual books, because my opinion is that truth should be simple, avaliable for everyone, every moment? Not that i am saying that one should not read spiritual books. It can guide you, i agree. 

 

 

 

[Demeter]

@Dario1995 the reason I mentioned that book is that it showed me how I had got it all wrong.

Worth a read, if you can. Listen to him anyway.

[Dario1995]

@Nahm actually, when you say it like that, no, i cant let go that easy. Maybe i need to work on that, not be so serious

[bejapuskas]

@Dario1995  Maybe letting go of ideas will do the job. You can say that truth is an experience, a peaceful or loving experience, or maybe it is not, I don't know  Or that it is for everyone or that you, as an ego that exists, are experiencing it as some sort of reality. But by adding these perspectives and thoughts, all you are doing is dividing.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Dario1995 said:

@Nahm actually, when you say it like that, no, i cant let go that easy. Maybe i need to work on that, not be so serious

Nice. Now let go of that. It’s a belief. It’s not true. Don’t age it “something to work on”, that’d be another belief. Try being serious & sincere at the same time. See which one feels of your true nature. 

[Dario1995]

@bejapuskas @Nahm it is like i am simultaneosly, but efortlessly watching "myself"  trying to let go and in the background there is stillness, pure observing. Even the thought " i am observing" is seen as a thought. 

Talking to you guys really calmed "me" down. Last night, while playing some cards with friends, i suddenly became aware of now, existing, it was so joyful...it didnt last long though. 

Thank you all for your replies. 

-Dario-

[bejapuskas]

@Dario1995  If you are trying to get into a different state than into the now, or if you watch yourself from a remote point, it might seem as if (not be) stillness is indeed somewhere different than here, in the background. The here-now lasts always and you are in it every time, not just while playing cards with friends and being joyful x)

 

[VincentArogya]

17 hours ago, Dario1995 said:

Is all this normal, or am i doing something wrong?

One of the biggest traps in spiritual work is having conceptual knowledge and no direct experience of the Self. I would recommend that you look for ways to gain at least one or two mystical experiences to know what you're shooting at. I have had one mystical experience and it was profound enough to know what I am shooting at. Mystical experiences are also necessary to understand what words are pointing at. Words are not pointing at something tangible. What you're looking for cannot be understood by the mind. So, it would be helpful to let go of everything you know about liberation and enlightenment. Also remember, in the grand scheme of things, everything is happening for a greater good, however, horrible it seems from one perspective.

17 hours ago, Dario1995 said:

Should it be more loving, peaceful experience? 

Words don't do justice. Because if I say yes, you'll conceptualize your own imagination of love and peace. All I can say is go for the mystical experience and know it all by yourself. 

[Dario1995]

@VincentArogya It happened a couple times. I experienced oneness by having looking direct into the moon, and asking : where does that take place? Not the moon, the direct seeing of what we call a moon. 

Also, i recognized oneness from direct experience that everything is awareneess and cant be nothing else. 

But those are experiences, they change. Even the separate self is an experience.

My intuition tells me that its not about the state, or even the experience of different states( spiritual, mystical or egoic) 

I want to know who is the knower of the experience. Directly, not by answering trough thoughts. 

Not sure if it these were "mystical" though. 

[bejapuskas]

@Dario1995  The true mystic is not a mystic.

[Dario1995]

@bejapuskas I agree. I like when Rupert Spira says something like: It is more mysterious to me how you think you lost yourself than the actual truth. 

[bejapuskas]

@Dario1995  You can live well independently of Rupert Spira even

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Dario1995 said:

@bejapuskas @Nahm it is like i am simultaneosly, but efortlessly watching "myself"  trying to let go and in the background there is stillness, pure observing. Even the thought " i am observing" is seen as a thought. 

Talking to you guys really calmed "me" down. Last night, while playing some cards with friends, i suddenly became aware of now, existing, it was so joyful...it didnt last long though. 

Thank you all for your replies. 

-Dario-

That’s great! Keeping letting thoughts which don’t resonate / don’t serve you, go. Focus on feeling, breathing, seeing & hearing. 

[VincentArogya]

3 hours ago, Dario1995 said:

@VincentArogya It happened a couple times. I experienced oneness by having looking direct into the moon, and asking : where does that take place? Not the moon, the direct seeing of what we call a moon. 

Also, i recognized oneness from direct experience that everything is awareneess and cant be nothing else. 

But those are experiences, they change. Even the separate self is an experience.

My intuition tells me that its not about the state, or even the experience of different states( spiritual, mystical or egoic) 

I want to know who is the knower of the experience. Directly, not by answering trough thoughts. 

Not sure if it these were "mystical" though. 

Here's what I want to tell you, if you knew that everything was awareness, you will know who you are. Of course, in the human form, there are states that come and go. Now, are you looking to make one state permanent? 

The awareness is the knower, the awareness is the doer and that itself is awareness is everything. There is no one separate from the awareness knowing what the awareness experiences. 

My advice would be to verify if your experience was a mystical experience or not. Most mystical experiences are very convincing and they not only give you direct experience of your true nature but they also come with insights.