Vlad in charge... kinda sorta

[johncakecream]

I think the Russian  president is running the show, whispering to his patsy(Donald) to blame it all on China...from the virus to  Russian hackings for the vaccine.It appears the US has been cozying up to Russia (per Putin) to ally against China .Due to the idea of exceptionalism, few people in the general populations of  the US or Russia realize China can squash either country like a bug in a conflict, be it nuclear or conventional. China is a country of one mind, one mission, and one huge population with little decent .Xi Jing ping has excelled in the 21st century leaving Putin and Trump in the 20th.

[Leo Gura]

Just the opposite, Putin needs to ally with China because he knows Trump won't last and the US will hit him with more sanctions. Putin's biggest goal is to make Russia completely independent of US sanctions. China is his best way to do that.

[Roy]

Nuclear is irrelevant to talk about, because it's the end of the world.

In a conventional war China would lose hilariously, they can't match the US fleet let alone rest of NATO, nor can they project power outside their borders that far or for that long, plus they are behind in technology. They are Paper Tiger, Hidden Communist. And because this is the real world and we can't fight in a vacuum it would be China vs all of NATO. These 1v1 mental masturbation talks are just immature and pointless.

Also it's irrelevant anyways as well because the Chinese people don't hate the US/Westerners nearly as much as is portrayed. They are mostly just regular people like you and me, and just want to live normal, safe lives. They don't care for international politics bullshit or war.

You just get fed a different message because things are twisted by the corrupt CCP and biased and untrustworthy Western news sources.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Roy

[johncakecream]

How can we know anything when what is hidden is hidden. and what is revealed is skewed and biased.

[Epikur]

@Roy

Really? They would not fight regarding Tibet, Taiwan, Hongkong, Xingyang?
 

Quote

In real terms, China’s spending is worth about 75% that of the US.

.https://theconversation.com/chinas-military-might-is-much-closer-to-the-us-than-you-probably-think-124487

Edited July 18, 2020 by Epikur

[Heart of Space]

20 hours ago, Roy said:

In a conventional war China would lose hilariously, they can't match the US fleet let alone rest of NATO, nor can they project power outside their borders that far or for that long, plus they are behind in technology. They are Paper Tiger, Hidden Communist. And because this is the real world and we can't fight in a vacuum it would be China vs all of NATO. These 1v1 mental masturbation talks are just immature and pointless.

Also it's irrelevant anyways as well because the Chinese people don't hate the US/Westerners nearly as much as is portrayed. They are mostly just regular people like you and me, and just want to live normal, safe lives. They don't care for international politics bullshit or war.

You just get fed a different message because things are twisted by the corrupt CCP and biased and untrustworthy Western news sources.

Conventional war is almost as irrelevant to talk about as nuclear war.  The nature of war has changed and is fought in economics, geopolitics, information, and culture.  China's waging an intelligent long term 3D chess strategy, meanwhile the US is stuck playing tick tack toe trying to wave the billions spent on defense as if that means anything anymore.  The US is destroying itself from the inside by sucking the financial stability out of the majority of it's lower socioeconomic classes.  We are seeing the beginning of the end of the american empire right now and corporate oligarchy is mainly to blame.  

Edited July 19, 2020 by Heart of Space

[Leo Gura]

@Heart of Space That is a great analysis of the situation. It remains to be seen though if this truly leads to America's downfall or to some revival.

Although, given how radicalized the American right-wing has gotten, it doesn't look good.

Trump has a 45% approval rating right now, which is just shameful.

[LaucherJunge]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Trump has a 45% approval rating right now, which is just shameful.

True should be like 70%

[Parththakkar12]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Heart of Space That is a great analysis of the situation. It remains to be seen though if this truly leads to America's downfall or to some revival.

Although, given how radicalized the American right-wing has gotten, it doesn't look good.

Trump has a 45% approval rating right now, which is just shameful.

I feel you.

There's a few ugly realities of our society - one being that the fundamental basis of it is Blue. The whole notion of society is constructed at Blue. Things like property rights, rights in general, systems with specific roles, bureaucracy, civilization, family, routine, order, etc.

I wonder what a society that would be based on a higher stage would look like. Here's a few points on that:

• We'd want to channel the next collectivist Stage, aka Green to do that.
• Green voluntarily chooses community, as opposed to Blue getting indoctrinated into it, or being trapped in it.
• Green chooses to commit to the well-being of society in general, as opposed to Blue where people are indoctrinated into roles which are perceived by the indoctrinator to be good for society.
• Green chooses to create the kind of society it wants to create, as opposed to Blue which believes in the society it's indoctrinated in in an absolutist manner.

[Epikur]

14 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I feel you.

There's a few ugly realities of our society - one being that the fundamental basis of it is Blue. The whole notion of society is constructed at Blue. Things like property rights, rights in general, systems with specific roles, bureaucracy, civilization, family, routine, order, etc.

I wonder what a society that would be based on a higher stage would look like. Here's a few points on that:

• We'd want to channel the next collectivist Stage, aka Green to do that.
• Green voluntarily chooses community, as opposed to Blue getting indoctrinated into it, or being trapped in it.
• Green chooses to commit to the well-being of society in general, as opposed to Blue where people are indoctrinated into roles which are perceived by the indoctrinator to be good for society.
• Green chooses to create the kind of society it wants to create, as opposed to Blue which believes in the society it's indoctrinated in in an absolutist manner.

I can't see that people in general change too much at their core. I think technology makes the difference. Marx may have been right with that. Normal life is too stressful to develop oneself and then the society.

If you do it too early you may make an irreversible mistake or some magic happens and you jump stages

[Kailash Bhattarai]

27 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

True should be like 70%

70% for what?? For  letting 100 thousands of people die of COVID-19? 

[Parththakkar12]

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

I can't see that people in general change too much at their core. I think technology makes the difference. Marx may have been right with that. Normal life is too stressful to develop oneself and then the society.

If you do it too early you may make an irreversible mistake or some magic happens and you jump stages

Here's the thing about progress - it's chosen. When people really resist progress with all their might, some magic will have to happen! Things will have to get really ugly collectively before people realize that this isn't working anymore. If people don't pay attention to the systemic failures, there is only one way forward. That is for the systems to fail and the rug getting pulled from under our feet.

We don't choose for this to happen. Evolution will happen, whether we get on board with it or not. If we don't, well..... things can get ugly.

[Heart of Space]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Heart of Space That is a great analysis of the situation. It remains to be seen though if this truly leads to America's downfall or to some revival.

Although, given how radicalized the American right-wing has gotten, it doesn't look good.

Trump has a 45% approval rating right now, which is just shameful.

I agree, my perspective is somewhat pessimistic.  The future is uncertain, I can't predict it.  

The reason why I'm so pessimistic is that we have some severe issues mostly relating to the long standing problem of income inequality, which is has been badly exacerbated and quickly in a short  period of time.  It actually blows my mind that in an honest analysis of our economic situation Trump couldn't have gone in a more incorrect direction.  He took off some of the post 2008 regulation, which allowed the banking system to over leverage itself.   He increased the deficit in the worst possible way, corporate tax cuts, which the corporations then used the money to enrich themselves and institutions through stock buy backs.  And he used the market as is own personal ponzi pump and dump scheme.  And much much more.  

Best case scenario you get a status quo, marginal move in the correct direction in Biden.  This won't be enough in my opinion.  The way to solve those problems would have took a Bernie Sanders type president.  He won't run in the next election and you won't get another popular politician like him for potentially another few decades.  

The optimistic perspective is that no matter what happens I do believe there will eventually be some sort of revival.  I just think there will be a lot of pain first.  

[TrustTheProcess]

@Heart of Space yeah, we will likely have to eat a lot of unpleasant karma before seeing a revival unfortunately. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I agree, my perspective is somewhat pessimistic.  The future is uncertain, I can't predict it.  

The reason why I'm so pessimistic is that we have some severe issues mostly relating to the long standing problem of income inequality, which is has been badly exacerbated and quickly in a short  period of time.  It actually blows my mind that in an honest analysis of our economic situation Trump couldn't have gone in a more incorrect direction.  He took off some of the post 2008 regulation, which allowed the banking system to over leverage itself.   He increased the deficit in the worst possible way, corporate tax cuts, which the corporations then used the money to enrich themselves and institutions through stock buy backs.  And he used the market as is own personal ponzi pump and dump scheme.  And much much more.  

Yes, that was obvious on the day Trump got elected.

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Best case scenario you get a status quo, marginal move in the correct direction in Biden.  This won't be enough in my opinion.

For now, yes.

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

The way to solve those problems would have took a Bernie Sanders type president.  He won't run in the next election and you won't get another popular politician like him for potentially another few decades. 

I think we will have new progressive candidates soon as the need for them increases.

See, necessity is the mother of invention. Now people are starting to feel a burning need for progressive politicians so it will happen.

2 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

The optimistic perspective is that no matter what happens I do believe there will eventually be some sort of revival.  I just think there will be a lot of pain first.  

Yes, it's the pain of a lobster growing a bigger shell.

Try to see it as an evolutionary process

America is still more fair today than its ever been on the whole.

[Heart of Space]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

See, necessity is the mother of invention. Now people are starting to feel a burning need for progressive politicians so it will happen.

Yes, it's the pain of a lobster growing a bigger shell.

Try to see it as an evolutionary process

America is still more fair today than its ever been on the whole.

I think you're right.  It's hard not to let a doom and gloom narrative to color how I'm perceiving the current state of the world.  I guess it's important to understand the larger picture and not get lost in that.  

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

*sigh* why does the U.S. keep sanctioning Russia

Ummm.... cause Russia invaded and annexed Crimea.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

We still have no right to sanction them

What right do Russians have to use the American banking system?

Sanctions just basically say: You can't use our banking system and that of our partners because you are being a devil.