Leo locking threads today

[Jennjenn]

I would like to understand why are so many people feeding culture wars in a spiritual forum? I doesn’t make sense to me...

We are supposed to be understanding that we are all one, yet this forum is full of ethnocentric people with superiority complex and a victim blaming mentality. In an spiritual forum? Really? I don’t understand. 
 

I came here to fight exactly that part of my ego. To become aware of my own internalized biases, like racism and misogyny, and you guys are not helping lol. 
 

But this trend is everywhere. I see it everywhere. People all of a sudden are believing conspiracy theories and becoming Trump supporters. Why tho? Is it that life is too scary right now and he’s the only one telling you that it is all a hoax and just keep living your life like nothing is going on?
Someone please explain this to me. 
 

[Jennjenn]

I also think that people that want to silence BLM and protestors is because they made too much of a revolution and it became scary for some people. Like too much for comfort and that’s why they just want them to be quiet and say nothing: “Just be quite, don’t make a fuss, you’re making me uncomfortable” 

[Carl-Richard]

27 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

I would like to understand why are so many people feeding culture wars in a spiritual forum? I doesn’t make sense to me...

We're not a turquoise majority forum  

[Leo Gura]

Over 50% of the world population is at stage Blue or below.

Yellow is less than 3%.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Leo Gura that seems way too generous...

[Parththakkar12]

@Jennjenn Collective survival is brutally vicious. When we try to understand why there's conflict out there, the only way to really do that is to own the conflict inside ourselves. The only real way to resolve what's happening out there is to resolve it within ourselves. 

Right now, the world is in a state of battle. It's gonna intensify. We haven't really started the blame game of who is responsible for the covid outbreak. The world will start pointing fingers at China. This could potentially lead to a dangerous war. No kidding. The fact that Trump can fire a nuclear weapon whenever he wants doesn't help. I'm not saying it will happen, but the possibility is absolutely in the air.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

@Jennjenn 

Right now, the world is in a state of battle. It's gonna intensify. We haven't really started the blame game of who is responsible for the covid outbreak. The world will start pointing fingers at China. This could potentially lead to a dangerous war. No kidding. The fact that Trump can fire a nuclear weapon whenever he wants doesn't help. I'm not saying it will happen, but the possibility is absolutely in the air.

and here we go... 

[Akemrelax]

Just maybe, I know it sounds crazy, but maybe, criticizing progressives, universities students, and SJWs doesn’t automatically mean you support Trump or are a conservative.

I criticize the left because most people here already understand the right wing is less developed ?‍♂️.

[Jennjenn]

@Akemrelax *sigh* I never said criticizing the left makes someone a Trump supporter. 

I think at some level you actually know what I’m talking about...

im talking about the subtle -and not so subtle- racist and among other things, posts that we’ve seen lately. Particularly the ones that Leo locked today... 

Anyways, I’m exhausted... Today I discovered my dear friend believes covid is a hoax.

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

@Akemrelax 

Anyways, I’m exhausted... Today I discovered my dear friend believes covid is a hoax.

[Jennjenn]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 indeed 

[Akemrelax]

1 hour ago, Jennjenn said:

Particularly the ones that Leo locked today... 

I haven’t read all of them but the one about colleges being left indoctrination centres had some good discussions imo, but it got side tracked by some guys talking about blm or something. Someone was saying open dialogue was not the way to go and it didn’t work in the past, I disagree because I think if you look at the history we became more and more progressive with open dialogue but since around 2014 campuses have become more PC and have less open dialogue which is not good imo. Well, it’s now locked so I can’t respond to them but it would be a good discussion. The trans people thread has good posts too. Most of the stuff is pretty civil here.

1 hour ago, Jennjenn said:

Today I discovered my dear friend believes covid is a hoax.

All my friends are busy sharing multiple posts about BLM and other issues since like March Lol....

1 hour ago, Jennjenn said:

*sigh* I never said criticizing the left makes someone a Trump supporter. 

Well you kind of did suggest that by saying,

2 hours ago, Jennjenn said:

But this trend is everywhere. I see it everywhere. People all of a sudden are believing conspiracy theories and becoming Trump supporters.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Akemrelax

[LaucherJunge]

4 hours ago, Jennjenn said:

I would like to understand why are so many people feeding culture wars in a spiritual forum? I doesn’t make sense to me...

We are supposed to be understanding that we are all one, yet this forum is full of ethnocentric people with superiority complex and a victim blaming mentality. In an spiritual forum? Really? I don’t understand. 
 

I came here to fight exactly that part of my ego. To become aware of my own internalized biases, like racism and misogyny, and you guys are not helping lol. 
 

But this trend is everywhere. I see it everywhere. People all of a sudden are believing conspiracy theories and becoming Trump supporters. Why tho? Is it that life is too scary right now and he’s the only one telling you that it is all a hoax and just keep living your life like nothing is going on?
Someone please explain this to me. 
 

I can explain it to you coming from that other camp.

First of all just because you think someone is racist or sexist or what ever does not mean that he/she is. But this is exactly one of the biggest problems, you are not able to have discussions anymore if you have the better arguments you are either racist or sexist or homophobe or what ever is the new trend of shutting down people and this is very scary to me. There literally are stage yellow people being canceled and their whole lives destroyed because some people just make up their minds about them being one of the above terms without really discussing this nuanced matter.
And this is where people start waking up, when nobody is able to speak their ideas and their arguments are getting shut down without discussion that reminds an awful lot of fascism. No shit tons of people are going to fight that. You may want to fight for the relative freedom of oppressed minorities but we fight for the overall freedom which once is taken away, the freedom these minorities gain is going to be worthless. And be careful not to fall for Leo's notion of absolutist freedom he talks about in the libertarianism video, nobody has that in mind apart from anarchists maybe.
Then again, if you really look into things like Trump without prejudice and you see the lies of the media that wakes you up to a new degree really.
Media is propaganda. Sometimes a good cause being pushed which undoubtedly most right wingers will admit it being a good cause, but sometimes it's simply part of a bigger picture and used for a bad cause, a cause of oppression and control.
From my view at least this is not about letting go of this progression towards these green ideas completely, it is about doing it with an open mind, doing it so that everyone is able to present his arguments, doing so without character assassination and cancellation, doing so without extremism. Extremism never ever has shown to be a good thing, there is always a better way.
What we are opposing is the extremism, not so much the people who are going about this in a sane way.
Let me tell it to you like this, if the majority of people and the effect of these movements wouldn't be extreme, if it would just be kinda between center and center left, I would totally be on board with these movements, but I simply see too much extremism and people going completely insane literally, that way I see that people are simply not ready for this.
And I know that most of these extremist people are not even aware of what they are doing, I totally understand them, I understand the heart of these movements, but I simply can't watch these people being manipulated this way, you all are being tricked by powers probably still more powerful then Trump is, although if Trump is elected again that's going to hopefully change.
 

Edited July 16, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[-Tim-]

Gigantic blind spots are spotted here. Wowwa! LaucherJunge what a patience you have. To start to explain it. I don't have it.

How could we get at such a low point in society that we don't use successful principles like the free battle of ideas so the best wins. People wanting that to go and let the most offended get the power and cancel people and rationality. People are literally calling to do away with what made us get so far. Its starting to get a bit creepy by now. Al sorts of signs that happened in history in terrible times are now there. Lets hope it won't get so far. I don't know anymore if this will end good.

Usually it turns out to be useless this long explanation Laucherjunge. But at least we can say we have tried. Most intolerance , the very nasty stuff from history is done because those people think they do good and justice. Jesus said: Forgive them they do not know what they are doing.

The way to hell is paved with good intentions

Edited July 16, 2020 by -Tim-

[-Tim-]

From the public television company the netherlands:

In a Manifesto for the Free Word , some ninety Dutch and Flemish academics, opinion makers and politicians turn against what they call: cancelculture. The authors believe that action groups such as Black Lives Matter create social divisions.

[Rilles]

inb4 lock

[Consept]

@-Tim- and @LaucherJunge the issue with you guys is that you think your ideas are 100% right, moreover if you are presented with evidence counter to what you think you don't accept it. You haven't been shut down here, at least not straight away, I know you used to be Dutch guy and got shut down then but that was after people had spent a lot of time debating with you. There's this idea that people speaking the 'truth' are being shut down, I just don't think it's true, over the last couple years these have been the loudest voices.

Generally I just like to cut the bullshit, if you do have dogmatic views about races bring inferior or whatever I think that should be laid out plainly. A lot of public commentators have these views and use disguised language to convey these points. This whole facts over feelings things is fine but then take into account all facts and try and draw the full picture instead of one that suits your narrative. 

@Jennjenn it is very confusing that there are people in a spiritual forum that believe these things or have these views. My take is that youtube and social media are very powerful tools in terms of being able to indoctrinate people into different narratives, so someone who could go down the rabbit hole of Leo vids could, presumably go down the rabbit hole of right wing vids. If there isn't significant critical thinking, this is a very common thing. There's no way you'd get so many conspiracy theories if this was in the 90s for example, it's pretty much mainstream now.

But like @Prabhaker said you can only really look at it internally and deal with it that way, fighting externally with others is ultimately pointless

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
The thing you don't see stuck in a binary paradigm is that there is a very wide range of people on this camp. But you think someone being in this camp thinks he is 100% right and their thoughts are all the same. There are different individuals with different views here and many of them have very good points, nobody has the absolute truth and that will never be that case, don't know why you would think that. Why is being 100% sure a prerequisite to consider this side to be right in a relative sense when it's impossible in the first place to know something a 100%. Where is your criticism of the other camp that really does think they have all the answers by name calling and preventing others from even arguing with them, I really don't see much of that from your side to be honest, you seem to be more tolerant of leftist extremists opposed to center to center right people.

[Consept]

@LaucherJunge I agree in that all dogmatic beliefs should be called out, regardless of whether its on the left or right and i do that whenever its relevant. I guess its a human tendency to believe youre 100% right, regardless of your point of view. Where i think the issues are on the right is that the intention is not for unity its to demonise a particular group and i just dont believe this will work in anyway unless you want it to lead to war or even a divisive public internet. I know this happens on the left as well so im not dismissing that. But if we take someone like Sam Harris, a lot of what he says makes sense but he seems to put a lot of blame on Muslims, i cant see how thats productive. People that bring up the point of black people in america committing x amount of murders according to statistics, is ignoring the history and circumstances that have led to this, ultimately you can say their position is because of historical socio-economic factors or you can say they are genetically more violent and lazy, a lot of right wing commentators have the latter view and are looking at statistics to almost back this up which i think is highly disingenuous. 

As i said it happens on the left but i think its usually a reaction to something somebody has said on the right which impinges on someone elses freedom. Can it go to far? Definitely, its an excess of green but green as a whole is further developed than blue or orange, it should be checked but to me having empathy for others is a positive step, eventually it will extend to having empathy for the right. Vaush can usually breakdown these topics quite well - 

 

[-Tim-]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Generally I just like to cut the bullshit, if you do have dogmatic views about races bring inferior or whatever

Your the closeminded one. No one ever said that. You are exactly part of this cancelculture. Trying to change words to make someone bigotted and thereby cancelling people and discussions. You really really can't see it. It's so easy to see. This is what I mean LacherJunge, even the most obvious is not seen anymore. Consept is probably for the rest a good guy.Thats what make this so creepy.