How do we test Spiral Dynamics?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, fluffy said:

@Leo Gura

Believe me, I hope with all of my heart that you are right.

Don't hope.

Awaken to Infinite Truth & Love.

[fluffy]

@Leo Gura

But I'll be just chasing brain waves

 

[fluffy]

11 minutes ago, louhad said:

This is honestly a dog whistle to white supremecy if you apply that to what is happening in america right now... look up epigenetics, generational trauma, educational inequality, school to prison pipeline, etc...

 

 

Not at all, my sister has an IQ of about 90, she will never attend college, university or any other type of higher learning. She is training to be a shop-assistant and will do that for her whole life, she started in the same school as me, but had to drop out because of her very low rate of learning. I could pass the courses that she did easily with almost no effort - because my IQ is around 126. we had exactly the same upbringing, so it's all down to genetics. 

Can't you see that IQ has many societal implications, and that some people, no matter how hard they work, will never be able to attain economic succes?  How deluded could you be? 

And is specifically stated that I don't believe in IQ differences in races, don't put words in my mouth. there certainly are racial inequalities that we need to address.

But rejecting the science behind IQ on that basis is another kind of stupidity and close-mindedness.

Do you really think you could be whatever you wanted, if you worked hard enough? So everyone could become a competitive theoretical physicist of they just worked hard enough?

That's just the epitome of wishful thinking.

 

@Leo Gura @louhad

[TrustTheProcess]

10 minutes ago, fluffy said:

And is specifically stated that I don't believe in IQ differences in races, don't put words in my mouth. there certainly are racial inequalities that we need to address.

You implied that the "liberal axiom" that "Differences in SES are mainly sociological in nature, not at all biological" is Wrong... can you see how that can be interpreted as a dog whistle even if it is preempted with "I don't believe in iq diff between races". If you don't believe in inherent biological differences in cognitive capacities between races, then you would have to acknowledge that sociological factors contribute

also, just because someone can't be a fucking theoretical physicist doesn't mean they can't be financially stable, run a successful business, etc, etc... lol

[remember]

@fluffy everyone can become a competitive asshole, does not have anything to do with iq, and by the way iq does not safe people from stupidity. even einstein enabled idiotism... 

Edited July 16, 2020 by remember
not -its but -ism

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

This is a rare video recording of developmental psychologist Clare W. Graves discussing
his lifelong work of his conception of the psychological map of human existence,
the academic basis on which the Spiral Dynamics theory is based.

Funny how that last one is called "Authoritarian" with him saying that subjectivity and intuition seems to play a much bigger role, and that in a way they become more tribalistic. To me it looks like it is describing what Leo has been transitioning to the past few years.

Leo has in essence abandoned ideas of outside authority and is now embracing his own, with help of his subjective experience and intution. He is also much more harsh with people who are creating an environment which he doesn't like. He is actively excluding certain people from his group, which in a sense could be said to be tribalistic behaviour.

[Nak Khid]

Don Beck, author of "Spiral Dynamics", & Said Dawlabani, creator of MEMEnomics, walk us through the Spiral Dynamics model of understanding the evolutionary transformation of human values and cultures - and how that applies to economics.

Ken Wilber 

Don Beck challenges Ken Wilber to Debate!

 

From Graves' work, Beck and his colleague, Cristopher Cowan, developed the theory further and presented a structured evolutionary model of adaptive intelligence called Spiral Dynamics. Beck and Cowan first published their construct in Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership, and Change (Exploring the New Science of Memetics) (1996). Spiral Dynamics theory spawned much discussion and (sometimes tangential) integration of concepts by other theorists, such as Ken Wilber.

In A Theory of Everything Wilber attempts to bridge business, politics, science and spirituality and show how they integrate with theories of developmental psychology, such as Spiral Dynamics

Integral theory (Ken Wilber)

All Quadrants All Levels (AQAL, pron. "ah-qwul"), is the basic framework of integral theory. It models human knowledge and experience with a four-quadrant grid, along the axes of "interior-exterior" and "individual-collective". According to Wilber, it is a comprehensive approach to reality, a metatheory that attempts to explain how academic disciplines and every form of knowledge and experience fit together coherently.[2]

 

 

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura how do you ensure you stay on the cutting edge for the rest of your life? At 25 I feel like I’m quite progressive. Awakening experiences + exposure to the progressive YouTube space meant I being a libertarian/conservative was no longer tenable, now I feel like the odd one out in my family, lol.

But I know that in 50 years stuff is gonna evolve so much that my 50 year old self might think it’s going too far and I’ll turn into a new version of conservative. I guess it’s just an inclination people should fight as they get older and always make an effort to see the youths perspective on things 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

 

Lol. This reads like a joke.

Wilber is not integral? LOL

Wilber places Buddhism on top? LOL

Wilber is Red-Orange? LOL

Mystics are not the most developed humans on the planet? LOL

These people don't understand the brilliance of Wilber's work. That's because they lack mystical consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

@Leo Gura how do you ensure you stay on the cutting edge for the rest of your life? At 25 I feel like I’m quite progressive. Awakening experiences + exposure to the progressive YouTube space meant I being a libertarian/conservative was no longer tenable, now I feel like the odd one out in my family, lol.

You gotta constantly work on it and keep your mind open. Which gets harder with age as your mind becomes cemented.

Quote

But I know that in 50 years stuff is gonna evolve so much that my 50 year old self might think it’s going too far and I’ll turn into a new version of conservative.

That's basically inevitable. It's just a question of degree.

[Nak Khid]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mystics are not the most developed humans on the planet? LOL

Please name 3 living mystics

 

 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Nak Khid

Ken Wilber

Sadhguru

Leo Gura

 

[Nak Khid]

4 minutes ago, louhad said:

@Nak Khid

Ken Wilber

Sadhguru

Leo Gura

 

Show me a clip of Ken Wilber in which he comes across as a mystic rather than a philosopher/theorist 

[TrustTheProcess]

@Nak Khid

classic

[tesla]

@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You gotta constantly work on it and keep your mind open. Which gets harder with age as your mind becomes cemented.

That's basically inevitable. It's just a question of degree.

I'm not convinced. Yeah, on average most people tend to become stuck in their ways once they get older. But I have met people in their 40s-60s who are super open-minded, and are still evolving their perspective to this day. They're more open-minded than many people who are young.

If someone isn't open-minded when they're older, it's probably because they were already closed-minded (or at least partially closed-minded) when they were younger, and haven't really changed over the years because of it. If someone's mind was opened when they were younger, they generally can't unsee all the things they've learned and regress to being closed-minded.

Edited July 17, 2020 by tesla

[Artsu]

15 hours ago, fluffy said:

@Leo Gura @Scholar

Well, let’s take a model like SD which poses that the worldview of individuals evolves throughout their lifespan into using a more liberal, green, caring and complex set of beliefs. Then why do people become more conservative as they age? Isn’t that the complete opposite of what the model says? These logical inconsistencies really make me question the model.

This is perfectly explainable by a temperamental analysis though. As people age, they get less open and more conscientious. These are the primary psychological traits correlated with conservatism, thus people get more conservative as they age.

That's a good point imo

I use similar models to SD, and they don't suggest people become more liberal as they age. This political aspect is quite new to me, but developmental stages are not. Try Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or 8 circuits of consciousness, or Jungian archetypes.

[Epikur]

Something is missing in the equation. Something more primal. When you have spock you need also the savage Captain Kirk. We have to integrate the Savage Dynamics into the higher colors:

 

[Display_Name]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol. This reads like a joke.

Wilber is not integral? LOL

Wilber places Buddhism on top? LOL

Wilber is Red-Orange? LOL

Mystics are not the most developed humans on the planet? LOL

These people don't understand the brilliance of Wilber's work. That's because they lack mystical consciousness.

So smart, yet so stupid 

[Nak Khid]

so he goes into enlightened mode when he wears this shirt? 

[Artsu]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol. This reads like a joke.

Wilber is not integral? LOL

Wilber places Buddhism on top? LOL

Wilber is Red-Orange? LOL

Mystics are not the most developed humans on the planet? LOL

These people don't understand the brilliance of Wilber's work. That's because they lack mystical consciousness.

How do you define mystical consciousness? I was thinking of just that term the other day, as a term for coral and the next few levels above it.

It goes  ego -> self -> mystical -> ???