How to project more empathy?

[TrustTheProcess]

Hey y'all, 

So I actually consider myself to be a pretty empathetic person. It is just that at times, I struggle with expressing it in emotionally connective ways. For example, if one of my friends comes up to me and is bummed out, I tend to automatically try to give advice to help them solve their problem... rather than immediately trying to say something to put them at ease. 

So for example:

One of my friends is having some problems planning her future. She just graduated college, has no idea what to do with her life. So naturally my first instinct was "I don't mean to invalidate your perspective, but just realize that you are not alone. nobody has everything figured out at 22."... even though there was truth to that, it felt like too much of a male brained approach and tone. She even was real with me and said that while she k new I was right, it didn't make her feel better. How do I get better at tapping into that warm feminine style of empathy? 

[Leo Gura]

@louhad When it comes to dealing with upset females, always just ask...

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

And don't try to fix it or change it.

[Forestluv]

In the past, my mind would immediately go into practical advice and problem-solving mode. This can have a lot of value in some contexts, yet it can also prevent connection in the moment.

When we are naturally connecting, I’m often doing more listening and saying things like “How are you feeling?”, or  “Yea, I was in a similar situation and know how it feels. Have you had any moments of clarity or inspiration?”. It goes over best when spontaneous and genuine. If it seems like I’m ‘trying’ to say the right things, the connection isn’t as good. 

There is a time and place for practical problem solving and making a plan. Yet in another time and place, jumping to problem solving can communicate to a person “there is something wrong with you now, you should be something different - let’s get you there”. When people are upset, they can feel especially sensitive to be judged as not good enough. It’s often better to simply talk about feelings in a way that they are ok feeling the way they are. 

[Leo Gura]

A powerful technique they teach life coaches is called Validation. It works like this:

Whenever a client introduces some new problem or challenge he's facing, you as the coach hear it out and say:

Coach: "How does that make you feel?"

Client: Explains feelings

Coach: "How do you REALLY feel about?"

Client: Explains even deeper feelings

Coach: "I hear you say you really feel X because of Y. It's valid to feel that way because..."

[Artsu]

Your advice is hard to really use for solving the problem. So what if most people don't have things figured out at that age. Are they supposed to wait until a magical age where things have fallen into place?

So even though you say you focus on solving problems, you didn't solve the problem at all. If anything you encouraged procrastination.

Maybe you didn't know what to say because you're not experienced enough in your own life to know how to help someone plan their future.

If you're truly INFP, empathy should come naturally, and if it doesn't, i don't know what to say. If you're an INTJ, you'd be more of a problem solver, with a healthy dose of empathy. In the example you provided, i would suggest getting MORE in tune with the problem solving, to the point where your advice is more productive. Empathy is important too.

[Gesundheit]

Women are un-understandable, it's just a fact that you have to deal with. Women don't even understand themselves in the first place for you to be able to understand them. That's not an insult, so don't gang up on me you feminist folks. You will fuck up every now and then, if she wants you in her life whether as a friend or someone else she will understand that it's not actually your or her problem but something unavoidable in communication, especially when between different genders.

[Espaim]

Maybe non-violent communication can help you here. It'll teach you how to stop with the "advice" and go to the "what you're feeling?"

14 hours ago, louhad said:

I don't mean to invalidate your perspective

proceeds to invalidate her perspective

Edited July 13, 2020 by Espaim

[TrustTheProcess]

@Espaim lol, I didn't add context to the convo, but before she was talking about how she thought that all her friends had everything figured out and felt bad that she was the only one who didn't... I tried to get her to see that nobody has their shit figured out as much as they want others to think they do at her age. I was tryna normalize her feelings of uncertainty, without invalidating them. that usually helps me, but I do realize looking back that that is def a male bias. 

@Artsu Damn, I wish I was an intj sometimes... so badass lol... it is just that I use a shit ton of Ne and Fi. I judge things based on how I feel about them... and I am a hardcore type b, prospecting kinda dude. although I can come across as opinionated and stubborn over the web(Fi), irl I am generally pretty warm. again, I didn't add too much context into the convo, I just wanted to give a taste of how my first response was--- to try to fix the problem(which I felt was a problem of her contracted . perspective)--- I wasn't tryna fix the problem just to fix the problem in an intj type of way though, I was tryna fix the problem because I was thinking in terms of her emotional state and what would make me feel better in that position-- but again, I have a male bias

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by louhad

[TrustTheProcess]

good tips, thanks! @Forestluv @Leo Gura

[Artsu]

I don't see why this is such a gender issue.

Males and females are different to communicate with, but it's not like communication between the sexes is impossible. I have no trouble with it.

You don't need to completely alter your style just because one particular thing isn't working. But self improvement in general is a good thing.

Next time, try to understand the nature of the problem the person is facing. In this case, learn about what career options this person has and help them make a decision. Use your research skills to pick up on things they missed. Then they should feel more helped, even if they dont end up arriving at an answer.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Artsu

It ain't impossible of course, but there is a difference between more masculine compassion and feminine compassion. males are generally more receptive to masculine compassion. females are generally more receptive to feminine compassion. I need to work on expressing feminine compassion. 

I wasn't tryna give her advice on career options, I was just trying to broaden her perspective so she didn't feel like she was the only person going through it... Of course looking back, she just wanted to feel heard. 

[Artsu]

Well, i do notice that it's easier to extend compassion to a female. I don't know what exactly masculine compassion is.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Artsu

Masculine compassion: left brain bias, solving a problem, shifting perspectives, etc

Feminine compassion: right brain bias, giving validation, directly comforting, acceptance, etc

[Artsu]

2 minutes ago, louhad said:

@Artsu

Masculine compassion: left brain bias, solving a problem, shifting perspectives, etc

Feminine compassion: right brain bias, giving validation, directly comforting, acceptance, etc

That can easily link with personality type as well.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Artsu

[TrustTheProcess]

@Artsu

mbti at least is related to cognitive functions/thought processing, not necessarily behavior. 

This is partially why the 16 personalities test is trash. it has a heavy bias to map women to f and men to t for this reason

[Artsu]

1 hour ago, louhad said:

@Artsu

mbti at least is related to cognitive functions/thought processing, not necessarily behavior. 

This is partially why the 16 personalities test is trash. it has a heavy bias to map women to f and men to t for this reason

Yeah whereas a lot of it is cultural bias telling males to be Thinkers and women to be Feelers. The numbers are probably pretty even.

I first tested as INTP. Then i studied it and decided i was probably INFJ instead, and i got more in touch with Fe.

[electroBeam]

On 13/07/2020 at 0:33 PM, louhad said:

Hey y'all, 

So I actually consider myself to be a pretty empathetic person. It is just that at times, I struggle with expressing it in emotionally connective ways. For example, if one of my friends comes up to me and is bummed out, I tend to automatically try to give advice to help them solve their problem... rather than immediately trying to say something to put them at ease. 

So for example:

One of my friends is having some problems planning her future. She just graduated college, has no idea what to do with her life. So naturally my first instinct was "I don't mean to invalidate your perspective, but just realize that you are not alone. nobody has everything figured out at 22."... even though there was truth to that, it felt like too much of a male brained approach and tone. She even was real with me and said that while she k new I was right, it didn't make her feel better. How do I get better at tapping into that warm feminine style of empathy? 

I know it sounds simple, but the most direct way to 'project more empathy' is to drop thoughts and evoke the heart in the moment. 

[cnfvm]

How do you be empathetic towards someone who you don't know their FULL perspective? being empathetic doesn't mean you put yourself into his/her perspective. How can you? how can you look at life from someone else's perspective?  arrogant. naive. Stop trying to act  or think like a woman, how can you? you are not a woman. embrace your own perspective.

empathy is this, you recognize your own inadequacies and values  about yourself, there for you recognize other people's inadequacies and values about  themselves, Then you adjust your behaviour, you become an artist and an engineer!  Own your perspective, Without that you can't even see other perspectives. 

[Moon]

On 7/13/2020 at 11:34 PM, Artsu said:

That can easily link with personality type as well.

Well I've noticed for myself that women who fit into INTP etc tend to seem more male-brained to me (by my analysis of different kinds of people on a regular) 

On 7/13/2020 at 11:45 PM, louhad said:

This is partially why the 16 personalities test is trash. it has a heavy bias to map women to f and men to t for this reason

Wait, when does it ask for your gender?

 

But yeah, I would say most women just want to vent out their feelings, so let them vent and keep reassuring them that how they are feeling is justified lol

Ofc there are women who are outliers so with them the logical approach would work, I'd say a mixture of both is probably best (starting with letting them vent first and then eventually give a solution) 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Moon

[Ya know]

It's not about what you say, but how you say it. You just have to reciprocate the appropriate emotion corresponding to what they are presenting.

Complaining = Sympathizing

Joy = Enthusiasm, excitement

Anger = Agreement, validating

Whenever someone is emotional, they want their emotions dealt with. The best way is to work through it with feeling, rather than pragmatic reasoning.