Vaush on Fascism

[remember]

19 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Youre right, technically it was communism although that doesnt differ much from fascism in its pure state.

no exactly technically there was never communism.

but technically you say there is no such thing as liberal fascism so how can it be that there might be other mix forms?

what is a chimera? maybe you could ask yourself that, and then try to deny the half animal part about you exists.

Edited July 10, 2020 by remember

[Robi Steel]

14 minutes ago, louhad said:

What do you mean by "they", you have never actually met any "radical left wing college communist" from america in your life, have you? 

those are literally all the people I call my friends. Im a student in amsterdam, thats probably more left-wing than America dude. thats why im sick of them and know what road they are going down. 

5 minutes ago, remember said:

but technically you say there is no such thing as liberal fascism so how can it be that there might be other mix forms?

There arent, communism was not liberal in any way. 

7 minutes ago, remember said:

no exactly technically there was never communism

Thats what all the other communist said before you

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, louhad said:

radical left wing college kids who want free health care, free high quality education, criminal justice reform, an end to corporate influence in politics, an end to american militarism....

But they have pink hair! Communists!

[Robi Steel]

@Leo Gura Yes.

[remember]

3 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

those are literally all the people I call my friends. Im a student in amsterdam, thats probably more left-wing than America dude. thats why im sick of them and know what road they are going down. 

There arent, communism was not liberal in any way. 

Thats what all the other communist said before you

i did not say that social fascists are liberal fascists, and i did not say i was a communist - i count myself more into the liberal left, but still i discern between fascism and socialism and communism as political theories - and communism means it can’t be capitalistic, so there has never been communism, technically that’s easy maths. not any high class science.

[Akemrelax]

28 minutes ago, louhad said:

radical left wing college kids who want free health care, free high quality education, criminal justice reform, an end to corporate influence in politics, an end to american militarism....

... who can’t take a joke, self-righteous, always trying to guilt you, always getting offended, don’t work hard, toxic ideas of equality...

I guess you could say they are more developed than right wingers and what not. But man are these fucking feminists annoying. I met some who get offended if by the phrases “good girl” and “karma is a bitch”.

[TrustTheProcess]

6 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

... who can’t take a joke, self-righteous, always trying to guilt you, always getting offended, don’t work hard, toxic ideas of equality...

I guess you could say they are more developed than right wingers and what not. But man are these fucking feminists annoying. I met some who get offended if by the phrases “good girl” and “karma is a bitch”.

true, green has a tendency to be hyper sensitive can be expressed in toxic ways, but I don't think it is fair to frame green as a caricature of all of the toxic traits and marginalizing the healthy. I would say that only a minority of green have the real sjw energy and I go to an extremely green university. 

[remember]

23 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

... who can’t take a joke, self-righteous, always trying to guilt you, always getting offended, don’t work hard, toxic ideas of equality...

I guess you could say they are more developed than right wingers and what not. But man are these fucking feminists annoying. I met some who get offended if by the phrases “good girl” and “karma is a bitch”.

yes man absolutely, maybe we should all be fascists!

[Akemrelax]

22 minutes ago, louhad said:

true, green has a tendency to be hyper sensitive can be expressed in toxic ways, but I don't think it is fair to frame green as a caricature of all of the toxic traits and marginalizing the healthy. I would say that only a minority of green have the real sjw energy and I go to an extremely green university. 

Yes but they enable such behaviour, just like right wingers enable Trump.

I think the left wing needs to introspect why they are not able to sell their ideas to people instead of calling everyone a fascist. The rise of Trump is a failure of the left as well.

8 minutes ago, remember said:

maybe we should all be fascists!

The temptation is real but no thanks.

[Jacobsrw]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So I've been listening a lot to Vaush over the last week and although he is overly edgy and overly stuck in Green, he's got some pretty astute and brilliant insight into certain aspects of politics.

I found the following video particularly insightful:

Vaush is making me think more deeply about what fascism really entails and how sneaky it is. And while I still think he over-uses that term, I'm also starting to see an undeniable slippery slope between right-wing populism and fascism.

Is there really such as thing as right-wing populism which will not devolve into xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism? I'd like to think so, but I'm not as certain of that as I used to be. These new right-wing populists can be very sneaky with their messaging. After all, if someone was a true populist why wouldn't he support someone like Bernie or AOC? Right-wing populists are nationalists first and populists second. Otherwise they'd be left-wing populists.

Anyways... just some food for thought.

If you overlook Vaush's excessive edginess and hyperbole, he has some of the most sophisticated political analysis I've seen on YT.

I see right wing populism as a culminating fear of stage green. In so far as that being the case, I’d say this is why such people are enticed by Trump since he proposes such a radical and irregular political approach. If people are so volatile to select trump while masquerading a populist ideal than there’s no reason a fascist leader would be the tipping point for a new fascist ideology. 

Luckily majority of society is not deluded enough to Ashe such a movement, even though main stream stage orange may be the go to. It’s still far better than stage red authoritarianism.

[Extreme Z7]

1 hour ago, Robi Steel said:

@Leo Gura Yes.

Refrain from using far-right memes on this forum please. The Nordic Gamer meme was already pretty unintelligent to begin with.

[lmfao]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you overlook Vaush's excessive edginess and hyperbole, he has some of the most sophisticated political analysis I've seen on YT.

Bing. His channel will grow huge. I only found him roughly a week ago. I binged some vids in a row. I'm probs gonna take a break though, cba for political shit. 

Vaush is also a well rounded person in politics. In addition to making good videos and analyses he's a very good debater. He's had conversations with the likes of Stefan molyneux, Sargon of Akkad, and pretty much "destroyed" them. 

Him being edgy is a strength. It pulls me in, and pulls men on the internet who love to shitpost in. That's much of the appeal of the right, the idea that the left can't be edgy or fun. That paradigm is starting to break though, if you take a look at the Bernie bros. 

I sometimes watch TJ Kirk. Just his livestreams. He's a cool dude. I would like to think he has streaks of yellow, I don't know.  If I were to watch his philosophical response videos to Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules For Life book I would understand better. Certainly orange and green mixture, becoming more green as time goes on.
---
Edit: I'm at a loss about how green's presence in politics is conceptualised. Green is supposed to be more advanced than orange. You can look at all the issues individually and then state that overall "yes that's true". 

I don't understand the temperament clash I feel with extreme green folk in the domain of language policing and censorship. Maybe it's not a lack of understanding, I'm just dwelling and complaining about pathological green unfruitfully. 

Most green I see or hear of is online based. (That's technically a lie, I went to weekly meet-ups in a green buddhist society but [my understand is incomplete] ∨ [I'm ranting] ) Digital communication doesn't interface with the human brain very well. Humans in nature communicate via a wide variety of signals, whether biological or psychological or physical and etc. Social media amplifies particular signals and dampens other signals. This distorts the balance of signals our ancestors received throughout millions of years of evolution. 

Compare millions and billions of years to the 14 years twitter has been around for. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by lmfao

[Epikur]

4 hours ago, remember said:

yes man absolutely, maybe we should all be fascists!

In some ways we are already. It's just a matter of definition. We are sugar coating it so it does not sound too harsh I guess. The bigger the crisis the bigger the survival/ fascist mode

"real lefties" and "real right wing" are in agreement that things should be fought out on the street because there is no reason to make a compromise.


 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Epikur

[Epikur]

@lmfao

Vaush is a good actor and debator.

One problem is that he is wrong. 

All his constructs is standing on worker coops that don't work in reality. So basically he is a very entertaining LARPer.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Epikur said:

worker coops that don't work in reality.

You don't know that.

There are cases where they do work.

To reject worker co-ops on theoretical grounds is foolish.

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't know that.

There are cases where they do work.

To reject worker co-opts on theoretical grounds is foolish.

At this moment it's a fantasy/ theory. Not something to build your whole world view on it.

It's like leading a ship democratically or making a war democratically. Quite unrealistic. 

Even in leftist circles he is pretty isolated with his opinion on worker coops it seems. 





 

[Girzo]

@Epikur I am not sure what you are talking about, I have seen successful coops, even with 600 workers. So it's certainly not a fantasy.

There's more of them in Europe I guess. People sometimes underestimate development of leftist ideas in countries like France or the Netherlands.

Oh and I have just remembered, there is this big grocery store chain from the Switzerland called Coop, they hire something like 80k workers. I am just not sure to what degree they are really a co-op.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Girzo

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Epikur said:

Even in leftist circles he is pretty isolated with his opinion on worker coops it seems.

Worker co-ops are basically the definition of socialism.

[Nak Khid]

Oct 2017 

[Epikur]

Quote

Gunn (2000) and others (Errasti, et al. 2003) argue that the increased international integration of the world economy (a.k.a. "globalization") have adversely affected Mondragon, primarily in its ability to retain its unique and democratic features.

For instance, some Mondragon firms have begun hiring non-member workers (cooperative equivalent of other companies hiring "temp workers"). Cultural pressure has arisen for greater individualism and hierarchy in place of the ideal of "socially-coordinated governance structures." There has also been continual pressure within management for increased pay differentials. [The original pay differential was 1:3 (worker to management), but has since increased in some firms to as much as 1:10.] All of these factors have contributed to a greater gap in power amongst workers and managers in Mondragon.

In 1974 there was a strike by Mondragon workers against the Mondragon management. The issue was inequality. As described here, the striking workers "objected to the differentiation of pay levels on the assembly lines and asked that the equal payment system be continued. They also objected to the use of merit ratings for workers engaged directly in production." The 17 workers considered to be the instigators of the strike were fired, and only re-hired much later because the governing board felt that "the tensions and bad feelings could not be resolved otherwise, that the serious disagreements maintained divisions within the cooperative, and, equally important, that the discharges had not been well understood and accepted in the surrounding community."
 

 

http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/revolution/coops.html