White kid cries because he got segregated on the basis of race

[Preety_India]

24 minutes ago, Yog said:

Racism is a feature, a very good feature, old and primordial feature that goes way way beyond humans, its very old code, it is intelligence hammered by the test of time, if i were far-right I might go and say that its way more intelligent than this recent fragile human thinking and that in the test of time it will prevail.

What??!! 

 

 

[Yog]

23 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

What??!! 

 

 

Yes it is, its a feature that kept all of us and other organisms alive.

Seeing someone that looks different than you probably means that he is not from an environment that is nearby and probably is from a place far away, place with different micro-organisms, germs, ideological-cultural development. Maybe if we look deep enough racism is first and foremost a decease prevention mechanism, and a life preserving one.

That is why I think it is more linked with the brain center that governs disgust. If you are disgusted by something you will make the "familiar disgust face" and will approach the object of interest as something that should be smashed and destroyed like a cockroach. The proper mammal response to fear is either you freeze, or you run.

This explains Hitlers approach of : eradicating the pest of Jews with the pest gas of Zyclon-B I think. You'll also notice that truly racist people are very sensitive to low hygiene, wont take a bite of food if you took a bite from it previously, wont use the same bottle or the same spoon, they clean everything all the time. In a way maybe the solution to reducing racism is having amazing sanitation everywhere, there even might be actual data on this, i have to check.

Imagine having sensitive disgust circuit and living in a racially diverse environment, you have dirt and pollution all over the place and on top, unfamiliar suspicious people. That must be hell. I know a few people like this, its not pretty
 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yog

[Preety_India]

@Yog  

 

you're saying some toxic racist nonsense and some fucked up logic. 

I'm no longer arguing with you 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Yog said:

Yes it is, its a feature that kept all of us and other organisms alive.

Seeing someone that looks different than you probably means that he is not from an environment that is nearby and probably is from a place far away, place with different micro-organisms, germs, ideological-cultural development. Maybe if we look deep enough racism is first and foremost a decease prevention mechanism, and secondarily, life preserving one.

That is why I think is is way more linked with the brain center that governs disgust. If you are disgusted by it you will make the "familiar desgust face" and will approach the object of interest as something that should be smashed, destroyed. The proper mammal response to fear is either you freeze, or you run. This explains Hitlers approach of : eradicating the pest of Jews with the pest gas of Zyclon-B I think. You'll also notice that truly racist people are very sensitive to low hygiene, wont take a bite of food if you took a bite from it previously, wont use the same bottle or the same spoon, they clean everything all the time. In a way maybe the solution to reducing racism is having amazing sanitation everywhere, there even might be actual data on this, i have to check.

Imagine having sensitive disgust circuit and living in a racially diverse environment. That must be hell. I know a few people like this, its not pretty
 

 

[Epikur]

@Yog

clean and mean

Quote

Is Donald Trump’s xenophobia a result of his germophobia?

Visitors to Trump's home have been taken aback when asked to take their shoes off and put cellophane wrapping around their feet

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-us-elections-mexicans-germophobia-a7237971.html

 

Quote

We're a nation of germophobes

Children who grow up on farms, ... exposed to a greater diversity of infectious agents, are less likely to develop asthma.
 

https://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/02/berezow.germs/index.html

Lately I heard children who grew up in a cleaner environment have a healthier body. The explanation was that the immunsystem was too much active so there were not enough ressources there for other areas of the body.
 

[Yog]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

@Yog  

 

you're saying some toxic racist nonsense and some fucked up logic. 

I'm no longer arguing with you 

 

 

 

 

I didn't get the impression we were arguing.

My point is that progressives and SD greens are too invested in the social constructionist perspective/narrative, so that they are not able to see another way.

Its practices this flawed thinking as absolute truth, and after a while, it becomes its dogma and the tool with which green walls itself in. Its a blind spot is what my point is.

It takes at least stage yellow to talk about race in realistic manner, which will have more complex way of looking at things.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yog

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

Well if we take it with that level of seriousness, respect and humility, .....we might not treat it as some kind bug that happen to be written on the blank human slate, as we socially constructed everything. As something that is man-made, or approach it as if it were something that should/can be fixed, training people for racial bias and forcing ideology into kids minds... I find it distasteful, arrogant and ungrateful.

Well how do we make it better...... we certainly do not like some of its outcomes, obviously. How do we edit ? Its a deep and great question.

But lets say it can start with a dance between STEM and the social sciences. Social scientists, especially the ideologically post modern leaning ones like to thing that they got it figured out, all that remains is action! And that is how you get generations of repressed kids, by telling that what they see is wrong.

Humans are not blank slate, but are the blankest there is.
That is my point, maybe we should start treating ourselves as such.

This is immersed and limited to intellectual modeling. It excludes the value of direct experience and empathic understanding. 

16 minutes ago, Yog said:

It takes at least stage yellow to talk about race in realistic manner, which will have more complex way of looking at things.

An integrated stage yellow is not limited to intellectual modeling. Complexity is not limited to intellectual complexity. It also includes the complexity of integrating empathy, emotions, intuition. The integration of these components is not simply from the intellect. Some Yellows treat these as abstract ideas, because they are intellectual dominant. 

A direct experience of empathic understanding is as deep as any intellectual model you create. And in some contexts, much deeper and powerful. Yet a mind that likes to control through intellectual modeling will not want to venture into this zone. Such a mind will be repelled because it desires cognitive, intellectual control of creating narrative.  

[Preety_India]

@Yog  

Dogma is what you're doing by calling people dirty and pests. 

I'm not replying anymore 

It's stage Red Dogma masked as yellow and using Yellow as a scapegoat

 

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Yog said:

Yes it is, its a feature that kept all of us and other organisms alive.

Seeing someone that looks different than you probably means that he is not from an environment that is nearby and probably is from a place far away, place with different micro-organisms, germs, ideological-cultural development. Maybe if we look deep enough racism is first and foremost a decease prevention mechanism, and secondarily, life preserving one.

That is why I think is is way more linked with the brain center that governs disgust. If you are disgusted by it you will make the "familiar desgust face" and will approach the object of interest as something that should be smashed, destroyed. The proper mammal response to fear is either you freeze, or you run. This explains Hitlers approach of : eradicating the pest of Jews with the pest gas of Zyclon-B I think. You'll also notice that truly racist people are very sensitive to low hygiene, wont take a bite of food if you took a bite from it previously, wont use the same bottle or the same spoon, they clean everything all the time. In a way maybe the solution to reducing racism is having amazing sanitation everywhere, there even might be actual data on this, i have to check.

Imagine having sensitive disgust circuit and living in a racially diverse environment. That must be hell. I know a few people like this, its not pretty
 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Preety_India

[Yog]

@Preety_India  That was Hitlers thinking Ma'am, not mine A racist will find you disgusting if you lacked hygiene. Me personalty.... you may find me half naked covered in mud in mosh-pits of metal concerts, or slapped by armpits of jumpy sweaty hippies on trance festivals. I am fine with it, some people are not

@Epikur  Thanks, that was in the line of what i was looking for . I think there was data with larger samples, probably Turkey, not sure. I'll look into it.

@Forestluv  You are right, I do not disagree at all, that is why I respect the social scientists, or yellow+ thinkers that go and help people with their developed empathy, they actually go and deal, or help create movements that deal in the direct experience, talking with people about their direct experience, its a key chain piece from the whole chain. Its a crucial thing to take it into account when trying to create systems I would say.

That is why I would love to see both camps working together, stepping out of their paradigm lock and wrestling with the primordial giant. Leading us to Bret Weinsteins recent talk at Rogans. You've probably seen it.

In a way .... I like JPs lobster thing and his critique of the left , its not that he dismisses its claims, its that he thinks they are not pessimistic enough and dismiss the magnitude of the issues.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yog

[Epikur]

@Yog

 

Quote

Parasite stress and pathogen avoidance relate to distinct dimensions of political ideology across 30 nations

Pathogens, and antipathogen behavioral strategies, affect myriad aspects of human behavior. Recent findings suggest that antipathogen strategies relate to political attitudes, with more ideologically conservative individuals reporting more disgust toward pathogen cues, and with higher parasite stress nations being, on average, more conservative. 

People who are more avoidant of pathogens are more politically conservative, as are nations with greater parasite stress. In the current research, we test two prominent hypotheses that have been proposed as explanations for these relationships.

https://www.pnas.org/content/113/44/12408

 

[Yog]

@Epikur Wow, that was fast, neat!

There are charts in there too, I fap on charts.

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yog
I fap.

[Raphael]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

Yes it is, its a feature that kept all of us and other organisms alive.

Seeing someone that looks different than you probably means that he is not from an environment that is nearby and probably is from a place far away, place with different micro-organisms, germs, ideological-cultural development. Maybe if we look deep enough racism is first and foremost a decease prevention mechanism, and a life preserving one.

That is why I think it is more linked with the brain center that governs disgust. If you are disgusted by something you will make the "familiar disgust face" and will approach the object of interest as something that should be smashed and destroyed like a cockroach. The proper mammal response to fear is either you freeze, or you run.

This explains Hitlers approach of : eradicating the pest of Jews with the pest gas of Zyclon-B I think. You'll also notice that truly racist people are very sensitive to low hygiene, wont take a bite of food if you took a bite from it previously, wont use the same bottle or the same spoon, they clean everything all the time. In a way maybe the solution to reducing racism is having amazing sanitation everywhere, there even might be actual data on this, i have to check.

Imagine having sensitive disgust circuit and living in a racially diverse environment, you have dirt and pollution all over the place and on top, unfamiliar suspicious people. That must be hell. I know a few people like this, its not pretty
 

I didn't understand anything. Can you simplify?

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Yog said:

@Forestluv  You are right, I do not disagree at all, that is why I respect the social scientists, or yellow+ thinkers that go and help people with their developed empathy, they actually go and deal, or help create movements that deal in the direct experience, talking with people about their direct experience, its a key chain piece from the whole chain. Its a crucial thing to take it into account when trying to create systems I would say.

One thing I’m trying to point out is the dominance of intellectual modes over other modes of intelligence. Notice how the intellectual mind says “I respect social scientists that help people with their developmental empathy”. This is an abstract intellectual idea that has not embodied the actual developmental empathy. It only respects those that actually speak the empathic language when that language is aligned to the intellectual constructs it holds. Look at the mind’s response to the U.K. exercise. Does that look like a mind that respects and values people that speak empathy?. .  A mind creating a frame of “I respect xyz and it is a key piece in the whole chain of creating systems” is still an intellectual-dominant frame. It is looking at developmental empathy from an outside intellectual perspective. It allows the communication of the empathic language as long as what is being communicated is subordinate and aligned within it’s own intellectual construct. Saying I respect and value empathic development is a contraction if restricts those fluent in empathy to only speak their empathic language within one particular intellectual frame.

Consider this frame:

4 hours ago, Yog said:

Well if we take it with that level of seriousness, respect and humility, .....we might not treat it as some kind bug that happen to be written on the blank human slate, as we socially constructed everything. As something that is man-made, or approach it as if it were something that should/can be fixed, training people for racial bias and forcing ideology into kids minds... I find it distasteful, arrogant and ungrateful.
 

This is a mindset that is not fluent in empathy. It does not even consider other intellectual frames. I’m not saying the view is wrong, no more than I would say a hammer is better than a screwdriver. However, this mindset is clearly not fluent in empathy. Notice how the mind frames this situation as training people for racial bias and how it is distasteful, arrogant and ungrateful. That is not a mind that understands or respects those that speak empathy. The mind is not willing to say, “I respect and value those that are fluent in empathic development. Since I am not fluent in speaking empathy I will allow those that are fluent in empathy space to speak here”. Rather, it is defining the efforts of those that speak the empathic language as “distasteful, arrogant and ungrateful” (which is true from one particular cognitive frame). Yet if both camps are truly going to work together, how can the intellectual camp tell the empathic camp that they can only speak their language in contexts that are aligned with a particular intellectual model? Allowing other modes of intelligence to merely exist within one particular intellectual model is a contracted mindset. Integrated yellow is not merely integrating intellectual constructs into a system, it also integrates other modes of intelligence. Integrating other modes of intelligence through an intellectual filter is distinct from integrating the actuality of that intelligence from that intelligence itself. Integrated yellow is fluent in several languages of intelligence.

To a mind that is at a yellow+ level of empathic fluency, non-fluency is totally obvious. Just as non-fluency in intellectual modeling is totally obvious to a mind fluent in intellectual modeling. 

2 hours ago, Yog said:

@Forestluv  You are right, I do not disagree at all, that is why I respect the social scientists, or yellow+ thinkers that go and help people with their developed empathy, they actually go and deal, or help create movements that deal in the direct experience, talking with people about their direct experience, its a key chain piece from the whole chain. Its a crucial thing to take it into account when trying to create systems I would say.

That is why I would love to see both camps working together, stepping out of their paradigm lock and wrestling with the primordial giant.

Acknowledgment and respect for the existence of the empathic language still has major gaps. You say that you would like to see ”both camps work together”, yet how can “both camps work together” when the actuality of the empathic language is labeled as “distasteful, arrogant and ungrateful.“ when it is not aligned with a particular intellectual frame?  What does that communicate to people that speak the empathic language? Is it telling them “I  respect and value your empathic understanding. Welcome. Let’s have the empathic and intellectual camps work together”. As someone who speaks the language of empathy, I can tell you it is not. It is excluding the empathic speakers .It is saying your camp can only work under my camp under my terms. 

And for those at intermediate levels of learning the empathic language, empathic understanding is not contracted to one’s experience, worldview and identity. That is green-level empathy. Tier2 meta-empathy transcends the self construct and there is expansion. Just as one transcends intellectual attachments and develops meta-intellect in Tier2, one can transcend empathic attachments and develop meta-empathy. 

 

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

@Epikur Wow, that was fast, neat!

There are charts in there too, I fap on charts.

 

I want to be at that level too  

[Yog]

Sorry for ghosting you guys... I tend to vanish from the web at times.
 

On 7/8/2020 at 6:19 PM, Raphael said:

I didn't understand anything. Can you simplify?

I'll give it a shot man. What I was thinking was that:

The actual root of racism is situated in the disgust center of the brain, or at least closely linked with it.

Also... a part of the point is that actual biological races do not exist and that race is an arbitrary selection box, but the mechanism that creates race in our very perception is biologically driven. And it might very well be located/linked with the disgust center.

Why the disgust center ?
Imagine living in England 250k years ago, you were probably well adapted to that environment, adapted to the plant life, the animal life, the fungi, molds, microorganisms, parasites, germs, the climate, sun amount... ect. Your ancestors surely did adapt, else you wont be alive.

It also happens that the people near you looked alike, white, pale, with light hair, probably blue eyes. A product of this local adaption.
So in the BIOS of your brain, trough ages of time, couple of lines of code came into being:

If: people look alike.
Than: they are near me (genetically,geographically)
Than: they are exposed to the same type of germs/organisms as I am.
Than: they can carry the same germs I am already exposed to.
Than: I am already immune to them, or at least can deal with them.
Capable of dealing or immune = I live.
________________________________________
If: I meet someone unknown that looks like me.
Than: he is no threat = both me and him live.
Than: social Interaction = worth risking
_______________________________________
If I meet someone that does not look like me. ( Asian or Black lets say, if we take you are prehistorical Brit)
Than: He is not from this environment.
Than: He is exposed to non-local-germs.
Than: He might carry them with him.
Than: Some may pass to me and I might get them.
Than: Me getting unfamiliar germs = Danger
Than: The person that is not alike = Danger

Engage - Disgust center.
Protocol - Eliminate or disengage from the organism that might carry the danger. Or wall away from it.
Make sure you never visually see it around you.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Basically racism is couple of lines of back-end code...

No one thinks this code.... it computes in the background and than it feeds your perception ....you have no clue why you feel that way about that person. You know the code has been fired when you see someone make the "disgust-face" (constriction of the oral and nasal cavities so things can't get in), imagine licking the base of a leaky public toilet, there you have it.

This code-thing branches out and creates effects such as racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, homophobia, strict sexual morality,anorexia (disgust from self)... you name it. These effects can be reinforced by social means ofc. The novelty effect seems to be interlinked with it too.

I would like to distinguish mind from brain for obvious reasons. I do not think their BIOSes are that alike and that you have more edit power in the BIOS of your mind, but not the brain.

 

@Forestluv
I hope you do not misunderstand me. But I am not a fluent English speaker and lack the vocabulary. So I may lose things in translation, and my writing may come across as dry, or very logical. I can struggle in forming sentences at times.

I am also sorry if i came across as arrogant or sharp, it was an attempt to bait/tease and I got a bit.... carried away. Thank you for pointing it out.

I hope it clears up the noise.

What i was trying to get across is that: sacrifices will have to be made on both "camps" if there is to be any any unification and collaboration. None can have it their way all the way trough. Both perspectives are incomplete. Transcending them requires letting go of pet junk and it will include pain...

I personally prefer to help people be ok with pain and discomfort instead of shielding them, it does not mean I cant feel them, or tend to look down on them, it does not mean I would not be with them in their pain.... but that's just me and my 2 cents.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Yog said:

 

@Forestluv
Both perspectives are incomplete. Transcending them requires letting go of pet junk and it will include pain...

Of course. Are you willing to observe how the perspective you hold is also incomplete? Transcending it requires letting go of pet junk and it will include pain. . . 

[Yog]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Of course. Are you willing to observe how the perspective you hold is also incomplete? Transcending it requires letting go of pet junk and it will include pain. . . 

Its flawed, in myriads of ways, in some it is even Looney Tunes.
Its not that I like it, on the contrary I don't, but I think it gets... at least the aim right.

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Yog said:

Its flawed, in myriads of ways, in some it is even Looney Tunes.
Its not that I like it, on the contrary I don't, but I think it gets... at least the aim right.

? 
Same here.

[LaucherJunge]

8 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Of course. Are you willing to observe how the perspective you hold is also incomplete? Transcending it requires letting go of pet junk and it will include pain. . . 

Is there anything like a complete perspective other then the God perspective?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, LaucherJunge said:

Is there anything like a complete perspective other then the God perspective?

Ime, a complete perspective would be One/Everything/Nothing/Infinity. Any perspective my human mind holds is incomplete. 

[Scholar]

Next step:

Put every child into a cage in which they can only kneel in and not even turn around, leave them in there for a few hours in the dark.  Maybe even pretend like they are being slaughtered and eaten, showing some obese person eating and enjoying a hamburger made of their classmates flesh.

 

That would make people more empathic real quick. Sadly most people never experience terror and subjugation, which is why we live in a society in which it is viewed as almost completely non-problematic. So much so that people are willing to do this to their brothers and sisters for something like trivial health benefits or energy levels.