Why are you not vegan Leo?

[Leo Gura]

@LfcCharlie4 Already tried it.

[remember]

@Leo Gura you don’t eat grains, do you? you also don’t eat soy products, is that right? so you basically skip all the foods in the higher energy sugar and protein supply range.

what about pseudo grains and pulses? chick peas? for example.

plus a combination of bananas and starchy roots in the potato or maca range.

Edited July 8, 2020 by remember

[Aratrok]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nuts make me nauseous.

Avocados are okay but they are difficult to keep in stock given how quickly they spoil. And half the time they are rotten inside or hard like a brick.

@Leo Gura all sorts of nuts?

So that means there exists a period during a year where you can skip animal products and use avocados instead.

I am very interested, what does your typical diet look like? What are your main calorie sources? What type of animals do you eat?

[Someone here]

22 hours ago, Aratrok said:

I do not agree that this is everyone's personal choice, just like beating people up isn't.

Whether it is or not in theory..it's definitely everyone's choice in practice. It's obvious. 

 

22 hours ago, Aratrok said:

Those are sentient creatures

Well.. A solipsist might object that they aren't sentient since he is the only sentient being out there. So that doesn't fly. 

 

22 hours ago, Aratrok said:

You can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. 

LOL no you can't. I mean ofcourse you won't die or anything if you don't eat meat. But trust me the meat contains essential nutrients that can't be supplemented by any other food.  I tried vegan diet once or twice before and dude.. I felt like a flimsy piece of shit lol.   It definitely affects your energy levels..your hormones.. Your mood in a negative way. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Someone here

[remember]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well.. A solipsist might object that they aren't sentient since he is the only sentient being out there. So that doesn't fly. 

 

well but solipsism is far away from conscious. 

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

LOL no you can't. I mean ofcourse you won't die or anything if you don't eat meat. But trust me the meat contains essential nutrients that can't be supplemented by any other food.  I tried vegan diet once or twice before and dude.. I felt like a flimsy piece of shit lol.   It definitely affects your energy levels..your hormones.. Your mood in a negative way. 

lol you are a solipsist. and don’t underestimate the craving of your gut bacteria and fungus when you put them on rehab.

the problem for a lot of vegans is that they don’t eat balanced enough in sense of diversity. you can supplement almost everything you need with vegan and organic supplements and that market will grow.

Edited July 8, 2020 by remember

[Michael569]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've tried it multiple times but given my thyroid condition,

Leo, has anyone ever look at your gut health? Thyroid conditions can be driven by dysbiosis and by increased gut permeability as can all autoimmune diseases (I think you mentioned Hashimoto's or was it Grave's?

Just wondering if you ever went down that route. 

[Someone here]

16 minutes ago, remember said:

well  but solipsism is far away from conscious. 

Define what do you mean by conscious and by what criteria do you judge that.  Is there a ten commands written somewhere in the universe for determining what's conscious and what's not? 

 

16 minutes ago, remember said:

lol you are a solipsist

No lol.  If I am a solipsist I wouldn't be responding to you because I would Believe there is no one behind your words who can read my words now. 

 

16 minutes ago, remember said:

the problem for a lot of vegans is that they don’t eat balanced enough in sense of diversity. you can supplement almost everything you need with vegan and organic supplements and that market will grow.

Why would I supplement in the first place when I have the original Natural source? 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

I'm not gonna get into all those details. Keep your nose in your own business.

Suffice it to say that you have no idea my situation. So watch your assumptions.

[Amandine]

21 hours ago, Max_V said:

@Scholar In the relative sense I do not view humans and animals as equals. Simply because a human has more capability to do good and positively change the world than any other animal ever could.

That goes both ways though. In the relative sense I do not view humans and animals as equals either. Simply because a human has more capability to do evil and negatively change the world than any other animal ever could.

With all our so-called superior intelligence, us humans are actually self-sabotaging ourselves big time and cutting off (literally and metaphorically) the very branch we're sitting on, nothing positive about that. Only our whole eco-system is at stake, lol. 

 

The consumer has to be the one that forces everyone's hand to say "I will not buy from you unless you have a sustainability policy and a clear transparency on the whole supply chain of the product that I'm buying".

I can understand why some are repulsed by the extremism, the all-or-nothing idealogy and black and white thinking of vegan activists, But I understand their agressive stance too. Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures. When we find ourselves in dire straights, sometimes Tough Love is the only remaining thing we have recourse to in order to wake people up, bring about an "intervention" and effect sustainable change. We're only just talking about trying to save the actual planet we're all living on after all, lol, it's in our collective interest.

I'm personally gradually shifting to becoming more vegan and so doing quite a bit of research right now. One main bone of contention for me is my cat whose food supports the horrific slaughter system that I am actively consciously eschewing. How to get around that? There is no Plan B for Fluffy's nutrition. I imagine vegans don't have cats. At the same time, if I hadn't adopted him, he could still be living a caged miserable life back at the Shelter.

I can understand why some folk don't want to or "can't" become vegan, and who still prefer to eat fish, eggs, dairy, etc but how people can still eat MEAT today boggles my mind (except granted if it was the ONLY food around on offer at a restaurant and you were absolutely starving with no other choice).

Firstly, because of the absolutely terrifying animal cruelty involved, but also because of the environmental destruction, let alone all the unhealthy hormones, toxins, etc they'd be pumping into their bodies.

I challenge them to eat their juicy steaks in front of a Peta youtube, I bet they couldn't, so is there a kinda Split Personality thing going on there? C'mon guys, you can't have your cake meat and eat it too. ?????

#animallivesmatter Animals just want love and respect like the rest of us, they do have feelings, they do suffer terribly. 

Forget about veganism for now. Eat fish and dairy if you want. But if y'all just stop eating meat, that would already make a big difference. Eating meat harms us all.

ps. there is no such thing as "humane slaughtering" (oxymoron if ever I heard one). Do your research folks, I'm not kidding. Just because your meal is supposedly organic or "humane" doesn't solve the problem. 

pps. the best trick for keeping an avocado nice and fresh after opening that I've found is storing it on a little saucer (or bowl) covered with water. The contact with the water prevents oxydation and keeps the avocado nice and green looking.

ppps. Chickpeas are great with around 19% of protein, they could be combined with a nutritious grain like quinoa (around 16%) which would make a good substitute for meat. Quinoa alone contains all the essential amino acids, so nobody really needs to be popping tons of food supplements, especially if you're on a budget.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Amandine

[mandyjw]

I recently tried being vegetarian and a short time of being vegan. Continual creeping weight gain and fatigue eventually caught up with me. I was eating super healthy, nuts, tons of veggies, taking B supplements but eventually got so tired and was hungry all the time leading to over-eating and having to use a lot of willpower to keep from gaining weight. I felt like it was impossible to get enough protein without destroying my digestion. As soon as I started eating meat again that stopped and I felt like I had my life back. I might try it again because I could have missed something and I'm glad I tried.

I have hypothyroidism, it never crossed my mind that that might be part of the reason until now.

 

[Applegarden]

18 minutes ago, modmyth said:

@LfcCharlie4 I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm not vegan.

Lab-grown meat is not necessarily made from genetically modified cells, although it could be. GMO is a separate issue? 

I think what he meant in general is that its not compatible with the body''s biochemistry in a very subtle ways, as MANY preservatives and food additives will be after years of study. If i have learned one thing about nutritional studies, it's that it's a conflicting black hole that traces back to human history and alot of out of ass assumptions about how a human being should eat. The masses use this as an excuse to eat poorly and justifying their diet. I love that the healthy lifestyle is such a cliche, while very few people  are acctually helthy, and do follow some not ordinary stuff, like @Vipassana with his long term juicing, vegans like @LfcCharlie4 and so on. If i ask my work collegues if what i eat is ok, they will say its unhealthy, because i don't eat meat and eat too small. And so many other things.  But you go and ask, how many people have taken refined sugars out of their diet, almost nobody. How many people have fasted even for a day... You get the drift. I don't want to insult you, however i don't think lab grown foods, concentrates and so on are body friendly in the long term. The nutritional issues in my assumption can be traced back to selection, trying to intentionally combine spiecies to get the maximum starch for exmple out of a potato for example, or make seeds go away from bananas. But its MANY times worse with agriculture and food production. In my opinion, if you really want to look at what healthy nutrition is, its important to monitor what the elites are eating/doing, or  independednt people with their own views are eating, Leo for example, vegans, vegetarians, yogis, meditators and so on.

Wishing you best of luck in your nutrition journeys!

[remember]

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Define what do you mean by conscious and by what criteria do you judge that.  Is there a ten commands written somewhere in the universe for determining what's conscious and what's not? 

no of course not - it’s still what you are able to perceive, not only emotionally but conceptionally. consciousness will probably reflect in your actions, the higher the standard you try to reach the further away you are, always. 

consciousness expands beyond the self and seeks to not only integrate but also be inclusive.

it’s not very far fetched to include animals into a moral standard of you should not kill. well yeah what you should or should not do is everyone’s own decision. being aware why and acting upon that consciousness is probably some kind of classical framing, you can find in most religions. i‘ve been numbed to a lot of emotions during my lifetime, some of them i numbed myself.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Amandine said:

Firstly, because of the absolutely terrifying animal cruelty involved. 

Life is cruel. 

You can't live if you don't kill other life forms. If you are so emotional about it then stop eating at all until death or just accept how fucked up survival is and just join the slaughtering party.  Life is eating itself to sustain itself in favor of itself.. Different aspects that is.. Human.. Animals.. Plants etc.  Nothing wrong about. That's how it is designed. 

[remember]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Life is cruel. 

You can't live if you don't kill other life forms. If you are so emotional about it then stop eating at all until death or just accept how fucked up survival is and just join the slaughtering party.  Life is eating itself to sustain itself in favor of itself.. Different aspects that is.. Human.. Animals.. Plants etc.  Nothing wrong about. That's how it is designed. 

yeah exactly. that’s why it’s still the status quo. being aware that people THINK that way because they have been taught that way, is making people eat their souls up and become what they hated.

[docs20]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Life is cruel. 

You can't live if you don't kill other life forms. If you are so emotional about it then stop eating at all until death or just accept how fucked up survival is and just join the slaughtering party.  Life is eating itself to sustain itself in favor of itself.. Different aspects that is.. Human.. Animals.. Plants etc.  Nothing wrong about. That's how it is designed. 

I ain't vegan at all but a good point that could be made is that as humans we have a choice, other living forms don't have a choice on the regard, unless your body specifically doesnt thrive as a vegan or you don't want to take maybe vit 12 supplements, which are often needed.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, remember said:

yeah exactly. that’s why it’s still the status quo. being aware that people THINK that way because they have been taught that way, is making people eat their souls up and become what they hated.

Sorry it's hard for me to understand your words and this is not the first time lol.  Could you put it in a different way please lol? 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, docs20 said:

I ain't vegan at all but a good point that could be made is that as humans we have a choice, other living forms don't have a choice on the regard, unless your body specifically doesnt thrive as a vegan or you don't want to take maybe vit 12 supplements, which are often needed.

Well ofcourse we can be more loving and stop killing the animals but what does that change in the grand scheme of things?  Animals will keep killing each other. Take the lion for instance.. Dude cannot live without meat.. How do you solve that? 

[remember]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Sorry it's hard for me to understand your words and this is not the first time lol.  Could you put it in a different way please lol? 

i wanted to show you the scene in spirited away, where chihiro‘s parents turn into pigs. unfortunately i couldn’t find a good exemplary video of it. that’s a really nice example of people turning into what they hated. same goes for turning into what you hated about your parents or what you hated about the world. i don’t know many people who really really love their own suffering in sense of wanting to go on suffering consciously, there is also suffering because of consciousness and the attempt to deny what consciousness is. its without misunderstanding probably not possible to claim spirituality without at least using existing spirituality as a measuring stick. sometimes it’s better to become what we love instead of staying what we hate, in some sense we can also turn into pigs then, but that’s another story.

Edited July 8, 2020 by remember

[LfcCharlie4]

@modmyth I wouldn’t be so sure, I personally wouldn’t touch lab grown meat with a 10 foot barge pole, it is certainly the furthest thing from natural food imo. 
 

@Applegarden I agree RE: Lab Grown meat, just no. 
 

@leogura fair enough mate, I wish you the best of luck with your condition. 

[Someone here]

29 minutes ago, remember said:

i wanted to show you the scene in spirited away, where chihiro‘s parents turn into pigs. unfortunately i couldn’t find a good exemplary video of it. that’s a really nice example of people turning into what they hated. same goes for turning into what you hated about your parents or what you hated about the world. i don’t know many people who really really love their own suffering in sense of wanting to go on suffering consciously, there is also suffering because of consciousness and the attempt to deny what consciousness is. its without misunderstanding probably not possible to claim spirituality without at least using existing spirituality as a measuring stick. sometimes it’s better to become what we love instead of staying what we hate, in some sense we can also turn into pigs then, but that’s another story.

An already existing spirituality?  You mean religion?  Well most religions have no problem with eating meat as far as I know except for Buddhism maybe but Buddhism is not really a religion. Buddha wasn't teaching any beliefs or dogma etc.  

Turning into what we hate about the world? Hmm interesting concept but how does that relate to the topic?  I mean because life is cruel and we hate that we will just turn into cruel animals to just numb our feelings of guilt?  

As I said in any case you Wil kill life forms  so long as you wish to survive. Kill or get killed. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Someone here