Why are you not vegan Leo?

[Aratrok]

@StarStruck steaks aren't healthy though and besides i really do want a more detailed answer other than "energy" or "doesn't fit".

[Max_V]

28 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Ego is survival and you are defending your survival. You aren't different at all from a slave owner, just that instead of race you use speciesism to justify your exploitation.

Exactly, I am a human and I need to survive too. I have a lot of things I want to do with my life, and a lot of problems I want to help find solutions to, and so I value my life. Veganism has showed not to work for me, my body doesn't tolerate it. So I eat what my body feels like it needs to survive and feel good.

Also, you are shoving a lot of extrapolated assumptions into my mouth that I haven't even given you my perspective on. I don't support factory farming whatsoever, and only try to buy what's local, well cared for, and organic. You probably have your contentions with that too, but I value it. Next to that, I told you that generally I value human lives more than animal lives because they are capable of more good in the world. This is simply a fact. If we are not going to argue about semantics here, a human has a lot more creative power that he could put to use to evolve the world than an animal. I acknowledge each animal playing it's own essential part in the ecosystem of nature, but what I'm trying to say is that humans can go beyond their survival, whereas animals seem to not be able to. 

Concerning your point about a human who is not capable of 'anything positive' and perhaps is equal to an animal in how much they could accomplish (which is a very small percentage of people, but let's entertain the possibility nonetheless). I'd say that's a really difficult topic. We can take that to nasty extremes like the ideas of eugenics and genetic favorism. I'd have to think about that more. But right now, if you were to put two people at gunshot: one being a extremely disabled person who some would label a 'vegetable' and one being a well functioning human being who is ambitious and deeply involved with projects that could help evolve society forward, then I would always pick the person who could mean more for the world. But then again, this is difficult and I'd have to think it through more. 

And finally I want to say to you, that morals are entirely groundless. There is nothing upholding them except human minds. No person has the same conceptual structure in their minds as someone else, which means there is nothing objective about them. This does not mean you cannot be a well functioning person while realizing this. Even all the more so I would say. Because at that point you are open to everyone's perspective and experience, and ultimate love has the chance to fill you, because you are not conceptually defining it and sticking to that, but simply letting it be. You can see that everyone and everything is just doing their best and their part.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Max_V

[Scholar]

35 minutes ago, Max_V said:

Exactly, I am a human and I need to survive too. I have a lot of things I want to do with my life, and a lot of problems I want to help find solutions to, and so I value my life. Veganism has showed not to work for me, my body doesn't tolerate it. So I eat what my body feels like it needs to survive and feel good.

You can do whatever you want, I am just here to reveal your devirly.

 

35 minutes ago, Max_V said:

Also, you are shoving a lot of extrapolated assumptions into my mouth that I haven't even given you my perspective on. I don't support factory farming whatsoever, and only try to buy what's local, well cared for, and organic. You probably have your contentions with that too, but I value it. Next to that, I told you that generally I value human lives more than animal lives because they are capable of more good in the world. This is simply a fact. If we are not going to argue about semantics here, a human has a lot more creative power that he could put to use to evolve the world than an animal. I acknowledge each animal playing it's own essential part in the ecosystem of nature, but what I'm trying to say is that humans can go beyond their survival, whereas animals seem to not be able to.

I wasn't addressing factory farming nor even veganism. I was specifically addressing the way your ego is operating. I don't really think a discussion on veganism will be productive at all with someone like you because your identity is too constricted. You fundamentally cannot see Soul.

It is not a simple fact. You are falling into the trap of the ego. You have no clue why you value humans more than animals, you simply claim that the reason why is because "humans are capable of more good in the world". The reason why I am showing you this in another context is so you can see that this is not at all the reason why you care about humans more than animals. It is a story your mind came up with so that it could continue with it's behaviour. You are not a perfectly rational being that one day decided that it will value other things by virtue of that capacity to achieve good in the world. Instead you have an emotional attachment, a configuration of identity, which then you rationalize by whatever means possible. This is fundamentally because of a lack of self-love. That which you judge others for is present in yourself, you simply hide it really well.

If you think you do not judge anyone, watch a video of a human being tortured by a sadist. Unless you have abnormal psychology or are truly enlightened beyond humanity, you will judge that person deeply. And you will fail to recognize that you are judging yourself, that you are watching someone do something which you are doing to others aswell.

 

Think about a racist who says black people are less worthy of life than white people because black people are less capable of creating good. The reason why the racist eventually has to abandon his position is because if there is a white human on the level of capacity to create goodness as what he perceives a black person to be, he has to agree that one of his ingroup is the same as one of the outgroup.

This is really basic identity stuff, I don't know why so many people here fail to see this.

 

35 minutes ago, Max_V said:

Concerning your point about a human who is not capable of 'anything positive' and perhaps is equal to an animal in how much they could accomplish (which is a very small percentage of people, but let's entertain the possibility nonetheless). I'd say that's a really difficult topic. We can take that to nasty extremes like the ideas of eugenics and genetic favorism. I'd have to think about that more. But right now, if you were to put two people at gunshot: one being a extremely disabled person who some would label a 'vegetable' and one being a well functioning human being who is ambitious and deeply involved with projects that could help evolve society forward, then I would always pick the person who could mean more for the world. But then again, this is difficult and I'd have to think it through more. 

Notice how your mind is creating a convinient example to escape the true horrors that your mindset would actually reduce to. We are not talking about a vegetable here, we are not talking about killing a disable person vs a healthy productive person. What we are talking about is killing a human on the level of ability to generate goodness as a cow, an ant or any other being, for nothing but your perception that you feel like veganism is not healthy to you. How much effort have you put into veganism, how many alternatives have you considered? And now ask yourself how much effort would you put into your diet if it wasn't a cow that you were killing, but instead a mentally handicapped person? Not a vegetable, a simple mentally handicapped person on the level of productivity of a cow.

A cow can play, it can have children. It can show affection. It suffers, it feels loss.

Imagine there was a 4 year old that would stay a 4 year old forever. Would you sacrifice that 4 year old to have optimal health? How much effort would you put into not killing that child? How much effort would you put into become a vegan if that was the only alternative?

The fact that you have to think things through shows that you are operating from a post-hoc rationalization, an emotional (egoic attachment) position that you are trying to sell as anything but that.

 

35 minutes ago, Max_V said:

And finally I want to say to you, that morals are entirely groundless. There is nothing upholding them except human minds. No person has the same conceptual structure in their minds as someone else, which means there is nothing objective about them. This does not mean you cannot be a well functioning person while realizing this. Even all the more so I would say. Because at that point you are open to everyone's perspective and experience, and ultimate love has the chance to fill you, because you are not conceptually defining it and sticking to that, but simply letting it be. You can see that everyone and everything is just doing their best and their part.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Again, listen to your emotions. Watch an ISIS video and come back to tell us how you feel. If your feelings tell you that "He is just doing the best he can!", then your identity is actually evolved. If not, you are exhibiting ego, and your entire game of relativism is nothing but a tool for your ego.

 

This is the fundamental problem with this kind of ideological relativism. We are talking about the Absolute Nature of existence, when you apply this to the relative world without bias, you will not be human anymore. Your positions will look like horror to any ego, because that is precisely what the ego is. It is the father of lies, the judge of Perfection. You are applying this relativism only in contexts in which it is convinient to your ego.

 

Again ask Leo what the difference between exploiting a cow and exploiting a human is. Ask him if there is a difference between stepping on an ant and the jewish holocaust. It is funny to me how the ego appeals to the Absolute. You are playing with fire.

If you can suffer on the cross and forgive all sinners, then I will accept your moral relativism.

 

The Absolute is so radical that there are things Leo will deliberately not say to not look like a complete monster. It is even worse. It's not a position of Leo, but it is actually the Absolute Truth. That Truth will look like horror to any ego if it truly saw it's full breath.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

I've tried it multiple times but given my thyroid condition, a vegan diet simply does not give me enough energy to function. I would have to be eating every couple of hours not to feel hungry and cold.

And I do not consume any wheat or grain products. Most vegans eat garbage grains to make up the bulk of their calories.

High carb diets do not make me feel good.

[remember]

2 hours ago, Max_V said:

And finally I want to say to you, that morals are entirely groundless. There is nothing upholding them except human minds.

exactly, and that’s why almost no one is upholding them.

who on the world is able to eat every couple of hours anyways  sorry for the side kick.

Edited July 7, 2020 by remember

[Girzo]

I can't imagine being a vegan without eating grains. Why though? Oats are very cool. Millet too. I don't feel like they are garbage at all.

Grains = bad stinks of an ideology. There are many different varieties that are for example to wheat as humans are to chimpanzees.

I feel like 50/50% grains/legumes meals + vegetables, nuts, etc. work the best for me. 

[Aratrok]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

High carb diets do not make me feel good.

What about nuts and avocado ? High fat foods,  last longer than carbs. @Leo Gura

Edited July 7, 2020 by Aratrok

[fridjonk]

Would you rather get to live at all and die in the end? 

Or to never have existed at all in the first place? 

Funny how people who've never been around farming, have no idea of how it actually works. Although I assume it's way worse in mass-marketed countries. But here in Iceland, they get to live a happy life where they have lots of freedom to roam around and are treated fairly. 

[Aratrok]

3 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

 But here in Iceland, they get to live a happy life where they have lots of freedom to roam around and are treated fairly. 

nonsense and besides the point.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Aratrok

[fridjonk]

@Aratrok Nonsense? I live on a farm. 

[Aratrok]

7 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@Aratrok Nonsense? I live on a farm. 

@fridjonk of course you do, but that's still besides the point and i already made the mistake of replying to your nonsense, this really isn't about your idea of "humane slaughter" being correct but about Leo.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Aratrok said:

What about nuts and avocado ?

Nuts make me nauseous.

Avocados are okay but they are difficult to keep in stock given how quickly they spoil. And half the time they are rotten inside or hard like a brick.

[DrewNows]

vegan? eww, i can understand vegetarian but really, it's about understanding how the body functions optimally. Dense food blocks the rising of kundalini energy up the spine. Energy cultivation is an art form, food density and chemistry truly play roles on vibration. Orine therapy and fasting will optimize meditation practices

"living" foods is where it's at...high vibes 

[Adam M]

Just wanted to report that I'm currently following Anthony William's book "Cleanse to Heal" and I feel awesome.

Basically, all I eat is fruits and vegetables and I feel great.

Low fat as well.

I reccomend his book.

[Lyubov]

I'm doing the best I can to eat a conscious diet. I don't eat mammals. I still consume dairy, eggs and other animal products as well as fish/seafood. Chicken is my back up protein option if I'm at a restaurant and they have nothing else. I suppose this is pretty good and I feel healthy for the most part with my diet. Could cut down on some junk food though.

[seriousman24]

12 hours ago, Scholar said:

Suppose human slave-holder is stage turquoise, would you accept that?

Suppose human rape and torture is stage coral, would you accept that?

I suspect this is actually the case; you just need to mix infinite intelligence with infinite love and you will see the possibility of that reality.
Just as in a video game killing another player is just a fun game; so it's from this kind of perspective where everything morphs into something beautiful.

I'm a yogurtarian/milk kefirian/eggarian for the most part myself in the last months with some small amounts of meat every other week.

[remember]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

I'm doing the best I can to eat a conscious diet. I don't eat mammals. I still consume dairy, eggs and other animal products as well as fish/seafood. Chicken is my back up protein option if I'm at a restaurant and they have nothing else. I suppose this is pretty good and I feel healthy for the most part with my diet. Could cut down on some junk food though.

yeah it’s difficult sometimes depending to where you are at to get good vegan or veg food. and then also consume it in a healthy way. does def not work without putting effort into it.

for me it’s a good approach to at least try staying vegan, zero animal is high vibrational, alive is the fruit of a plant. the plants are even giving the fruits to you for their survival. of course eating a whole plant like salad is radical, eating sprouts also... self justification starts fast  with an egg here and some butter there. it takes a lot of effort to ask in a restaurant if they have vegan options - that’s what was difficult for me for example in italy - but usually if asked they are really kind and often can make some kind of pasta, although in some countries they would certainly make you feel like they‘d have to go out of their way or say: we have salad - it’s actually like that in germany at the countryside sometimes. (for me the answer would be: „perfect, thank you!“ but of course if that’s all i get for days i‘d have to think about how to eat other stuff) 

some twenty years ago could be vegans were heavily discriminated, i can imagine in some countries that’s still the case. 

i‘m calling myself a vegan because most of the time i am and it’s more understandable in restaurants than to explain that i cannot eat milk products. (and animals, i mean everything with eyes basically)

i believe it’s better to accept being a devil and to backlash with food sometimes as to say it’s impossible and therefore i don’t try to make it possible.

being stuck most of the time means we have not experimented enough or did not find the solution yet - it might mean we don’t want it enough to work.

it‘s a lot of effort to learn how to organize and find suitable recipes and foods to establish a vegan diet.

really there is not much spirituality in eating animals, but we live in a world which makes it easy to believe we can be spiritually high evolved while doing so. its a status quo.

Edited July 8, 2020 by remember

[Hello from Russia]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nuts make me nauseous.

Avocados are okay but they are difficult to keep in stock given how quickly they spoil. And half the time they are rotten inside or hard like a brick.

That probably happens because you overindulge on them. They have a certain cap of how much you can eat in one sitting\in one day. Then they start to become toxic and give you a headache\nausea

[Michael569]

16 hours ago, Aratrok said:

One has to be morally on stage green to really grasp veganism where you don't fall back into carnism.

A lot of vegans assume a moral high ground and it these kinds of arguments that turn people away. Because you are not talking from a place of love, compassion and understanding but from a position of arrogance and (self-perceived) superiority. I stopped being vegan because I used to become that and because I was judgemental and hateful of everyone who dared to contradict my opinion. 

Veganism is amazing if it works but it does not for everyone like you have already been told several times. Some people cannot thrive on it without taking 10 supplements. We all come from different countries and would have historically evolved in a different way. We have genetic differences and lot of people have health conditions that cannot be cured by going vegan. 

If the whole world went 80% plant-based we would have much better results than if 20% of the world went 100% vegan. 

[LfcCharlie4]

5 hours ago, Adam M said:

Just wanted to report that I'm currently following Anthony William's book "Cleanse to Heal" and I feel awesome.

Basically, all I eat is fruits and vegetables and I feel great.

Low fat as well.

I reccomend his book.

 

Good to say a Medical Medium follower here, he's defo a legend, share your exact diet if you don't mind bro. 

9 hours ago, modmyth said:

Personally, I'm really looking forward to lab-grown meat being easily available. Hopefully very soon.

 

I would URGE you to avoid this GMO shit like the plague, unless you want to slowly get sicker with each meal, this shit is going to be poison, if you're not going to eat animal products please eat wholefoods, not the shitty GMO vegan junk foods out there. This is coming from someone who's been vegan for 5 years now. 

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've tried it multiple times but given my thyroid condition, a vegan diet simply does not give me enough energy to function. I would have to be eating every couple of hours not to feel hungry and cold.

And I do not consume any wheat or grain products. Most vegans eat garbage grains to make up the bulk of their calories.

High carb diets do not make me feel good.

 

Leo, I would strongly advise you to read the Medical Medium's book on Thyroid healing mate, the guy knows what he's talking about. 

At the minimum start drinking 16oz Celery juice every morning on an empty stomach, the shittier it tastes the more toxins you've got that need to be cleared. Also, expect to be 'cleared out' for the first couple of weeks after you drink it. I would recommend drinking it for 6-12 months before evaluating the effects. 

A lot of the negative reviews are either from people who don't like the fact Anthony claims to be a medium, or people who haven't tried it and have preconceived notions on his advice. Of course it won't work for 100% of people, but he's helped heal 1000s, which from what it sounds like, is exactly what you need. 

Look at the reviews and testimonials from actual people!  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Medium-Thyroid-Healing-Hypothyroidism/dp/1401948367/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Z3HMD9VMAN30&dchild=1&keywords=thyroid+healing+medical+medium&qid=1594203521&s=books&sprefix=thyroid+hea%2Caps%2C390&sr=1-1#customerReviews