Why Yellow Is "Tier 2"

[cn03]

Yellow sees the step from the previous stage as an extremely profound and meaningful one that somehow changed everything. Green, Orange, Blue etc. do the exact same thing.

Yellow thinks it's free of major dogma, but it isn't: It subtly believes in philosophy, models of reality and the usage of language.

And since Spiral Dynamics was basically invented by Yellow, you can see its ignorance there.

[Carl-Richard]

Tier 2 doesn't react to previous stages with confusion, hatred, or fear, but with understanding, encouragement and love. Turquoise ventures into the "being" domain, but Yellow still resides in the intellectual domain, so of course it has to utilize models, philosophy and language. However, Yellow isn't attached or biased to one particular model, as they're recognized as relative constructs, not absolute truths. The downsides of Yellow is its ignorance of the depth of consciousness and love.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Roy]

A noticeable fundamental difference is Yellow (proper Yellow that is) doesn't moralize, and sees the relativity of everything.

This is a massive leap where you're able to eagle eye everything from a distance without being personally/emotionally embroiled in it.

Red, Blue, Orange, and Green don't do this same thing @cn03. They are all immature and undeveloped to this facet. Which is why they are what they are, and not something else.

A big tell to this (though not a perfect indicator) is when you see people having a discussion. A Yellow person will not get angry or be fixated on crusading to convince the other person of something. Lower SD stages almost always will.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Roy

[Username]

Green, Orange, Blue tend to work only in one in one direction and are very dogmatic. Blue acts as if it was reading a script. Yellow multidimensional and always confused. The main difference is that yellow doesn't have fixed meaning about an object.

[Hello from Russia]

The Spiral Dynamics model is not black and white.

If you're turquoise it doesn't mean you can't be angry at people at all or can't have blindspots, same for yellow. It just means you're less prone to get fucked by these things, it doesn't give you 100% immunity.

Especially considering the fact that almost no people get instantly born into yellow.

That means there is a lot of potential for unintegrated shadows from being in previous stages and having traumas there

Edited July 4, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[cn03]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

However, Yellow isn't attached or biased to one particular model, as they're recognized as relative constructs, not absolute truths.

Not necessarily attached to one model in particular. But Yellow is always attached to models and using language to somehow understand the world.

1 hour ago, Roy said:

This is a massive leap where you're able to eagle eye everything from a distance without being personally/emotionally embroiled in it.

Every single leap is massive. So there's just nothing special about seeing the world in that Yellow philosophical way. It's not some totally neutral way, because there are many more ways of deception than emotional attachement. Contemplate language .

1 hour ago, Roy said:

A big tell to this (though not a perfect indicator) is when you see people having a discussion. A Yellow person will not get angry or be fixated on crusading to convince the other person of something. Lower SD stages almost always will.

Is that a legitimate reason to call Yellow "Tier 2"? Look, Blue says "It's all about morality.", Orange says "It's all about science and logic.", Green says "It's all about emotions.", Yellow says "It's all about understanding the big picture". That's my point: You see it as a bigger leap because you believe it is from your relative point of view.

1 hour ago, Username said:

Yellow multidimensional and always confused.

Yellow has the "dogma" of thinking obsessively, otherwise it wouldn't be confused all the time.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, cn03 said:

Not necessarily attached to one model in particular. But Yellow is always attached to models and using language to somehow understand the world.

which is what distinguishes it from Turquoise. It's still Tier 2 though. Yellow also recognizes the limits of language and models to some extent, but not in the way that Turquoise does. You only truly see the relativity of reality when you transcend your own mind.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[cn03]

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

The Spiral Dynamics model is not black and white.

If you're turquoise it doesn't mean you can't be angry at people at all or can't have blindspots, same for yellow. It just means you're less prone to get fucked by these things, it doesn't give you 100% immunity.

Especially considering the fact that almost no people get instantly born into yellow.

That means there is a lot of potential for unintegrated shadows from being in previous stages and having traumas there

The SD model is made up. There's only a tendency of certain thoughts going together with other thoughts, emotional maturity, cultural expressions, spiritual development and however you want to devide the very state of a human being. Someone recognized these connections and created the SD model with those colorful categories that don't actually exist. Models are just additional things that do not deserve any authority because all of them are false and you can't just somehow combine them and get an accurate worlview.

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, cn03 said:

The SD model is made up. There's only a tendency of certain thoughts going together with other thoughts, emotional maturity, cultural expressions, spiritual development and however you want to devide the very state of a human being. Someone recognized these connections and created the SD model with those colorful categories that don't actually exist. Models are just additional things that do not deserve any authority because all of them are false and you can't just somehow combine them and get an accurate worlview.

You've actually given a perfect description of how Yellow sees the limitations of models, but with an additional sprinkle of pessimism. Of course they're all extremely limited and made up, but they're also useful. You don't throw the map in the garbage just because it doesn't accurately represent the colour of the terrain.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Username]

Before I heard about SD for the first time, I already categorized people in exactly same groups. SD fits my observations perfectly.

[cn03]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

which is what distinguishes it from Turquoise. It's still Tier 2 though. Yellow also recognizes the limits of language and models to some extent, but not in the way that Turquoise does. You only truly see the relativity of reality when you transcend your own mind.

Ok, so let's make Turquoise "Tier 3". And Beige is now "Tier 0", because there's no culture at all. See, it's completely arbitrary where you draw the line(s). Actually there is no such a thing as a tier, you imagine it completely. And you might understand that intellectually, but not see the significance of it.

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, cn03 said:

Ok, so let's make Turquoise "Tier 3". And Beige is now "Tier 0", because there's no culture at all. See, it's completely arbitrary where you draw the line(s). Actually there is no such a thing as a tier, you imagine it completely.

What if it's actually possible to agree on everything you've just said and still believe that models are useful? That is another key feature of Tier 2 thinking: it is very flexible and able to accept paradox. It's fine to disagree about whether there should be 2 or 4 different tiers, but you still have to know what the different tiers and stages are supposed to represent to understand the model anyway. The way you choose to model these things can also boil down to what is more aesthetically pleasing in a visual format (colours, tiers, stages etc.).

Edited July 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[cn03]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Of course they're all extremely limited and made up, but they're also useful.

Useful in what way? Do you have fun thinking about them? Great. Do you wonder how society will progress, because you're interested in that? Perfect.

But don't expect them to be useful in any actually meaningful sense. They just aren't. With science it's similar. There's no obejctive truth to it, so I don't give authority to it. But I can still experiment or benefit from experiments of others. I don't want to throw this stuff away completely.

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, cn03 said:

Useful in what way?

For example, the ability to model the interactions between people and culture accurately is very useful for managing politics, government and society.

6 minutes ago, cn03 said:

With science it's similar. There's no obejctive truth to it, so I don't give authority to it. But I can still experiment or benefit from experiments of others. 

Correct. It's the same with science. The ability to model interactions between biological cells can be useful for making medicines and improve our health.

[Roy]

1 hour ago, cn03 said:

Every single leap is massive.

Yes. And going from Tier to 1 to 2 is one of the largest.

1 hour ago, cn03 said:

So there's just nothing special about seeing the world in that Yellow philosophical way.

It is distinct in that it transcends a massive realm of bullshit the other stages are stuck in, and sees relativity in it's true nature for the first time. This is special.

1 hour ago, cn03 said:

It's not some totally neutral way

No, but it's a LOT more neutral than the Tier 1 stages.

1 hour ago, cn03 said:

because there are many more ways of deception than emotional attachement.

Of course, Yellow is just free of more forms of deception than the other Stages. That's what developing includes.

1 hour ago, cn03 said:

Is that a legitimate reason to call Yellow "Tier 2"?

Yes, because a lot more things get done and improvements can be made if people are cooperating and not stuck in their own bias' and ideologies.

 

Honestly though what's the point of this thread? It seems like you just have a bone to pick with Yellow. Do you resent it or something? What's your angle.

[cn03]

11 hours ago, Roy said:

Honestly though what's the point of this thread? It seems like you just have a bone to pick with Yellow. Do you resent it or something? What's your angle.

This was just a funny idea that I wanted to share. I'm not against "Yellow" or anything. It's just beautiful to actually see that no model or combination of models is actually real or fundamentally true and I wanted to spark a glimpse of that.

[Gesundheit]

@cn03 The shift between Yellow and Turquoise is similar to the one between tier one and tier two. Your criticism is coming from Turquoise, so yeah, probably that's why.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, cn03 said:

This was just a funny idea that I wanted to share. I'm not against "Yellow" or anything. It's just beautiful to actually see that no model or combination of models is actually real or fundamentally true and I wanted to spark a glimpse of that.

But to use what you're saying here as an argument against Yellow wouldn't make sense, because what you're sharing is actually a Yellow insight 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[ajasatya]

Yellow is tier 2 because it's the first meta stage. There is a huge leap of dis-identification and deconstruction from Green to Yellow, much bigger than any leap previously done. This leap, differently from the previous ones, is not about finding the "new correct ideology". It's about realizing the realms of ideologies altogether.

[Hello from Russia]

It all happens because you just blindly acquire knowledge after knowledge without digesting and organizing it properly and putting it into processes.

Of course it will be useless in this way. 

Brainstorm at least 10-20 ways Spiral Dynamics framework can be useful to YOU and think of what PROCESSES you can put for yourself to benefit from it in ACTUALITY, not in theory. Then all that nonsensical doubt will disappear.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Hello from Russia